Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #1
K Xerxes
Greatest
 
K Xerxes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,047
Default The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Now that LeBron seems to have gotten over his mental issues and is finally dominating the league like few players have in history, we can legitimately start putting him into the top 10 conversation. Even the most ardent LeBron hater will have to admit that he will consolidate his place by the time he hangs up his boots (given that he's already 28 and in the mix), so we unfortunately have to bump one player out of the list.

I've seen so many recent lists popping Hakeem off and putting LeBron in his place, and I strongly disagree with that. So, I'm going to show you exactly why Hakeem is locked in top 10, and arguably top 5.

Of course, to anyone that didn't watch him closely enough, looking at his basic resume of 2 rings, 2FMVP and 1MVP puts him at the bottom of the consensus 'all time 11 list'. Kobe has 3 more rings, LeBron has 3 more MVPs etc etc...

But look at his overall game - that's the real judgement. Who had the interior defensive impact he had? Russell, sure. Certainly not Shaq or Wilt. Kareem was a good defender, but not as good as Hakeem, period. Duncan was great, but could he switch onto smaller guards and defend them for a few seconds until the man defender got back to them... and then go back to guard the paint in time for a block?

And who managed to combine that with arguably the greatest footwork and post moves of all time, bamboozling defenders with the infamous 'dream shake'?

Hakeem.

Hakeem is as close to the 'model' center as you can get. Not as offensively dominant as Shaq, Wilt or Kareem, but he had a greater two-way impact IMO. If you asked me to draft a center to build around, I pick Hakeem over all of them in all honesty.

Now, let's address his accomplishments and his many playoff 'failures'. The truth is, he was put in the circumstances that favoured him the least out of all the top 11 players. There's really no question about it.

And I'm not even talking about Jordan's domination specifically.

In his second year (1986): led his team to the finals, beating off the defending champions Magic & Kareem-led Lakers in the WCF, while averaging 31-11. But, he only had the small matter of facing arguably the greatest team ever (with the greatest frontline ever), and he still led his team to am impressive sixth game against the ridiculously stacked Celtics. In his second year in the league, he averaged 27-12 in the playoffs. Hakeem's fault they didn't win?

Third year (1987): 7'4 Ralph Sampson was injured for a lot of the regular season (signalling the end of the 'twin towers' next year... you have to wonder what could have been had he stayed healthy). The Rockets were taken out in 6 in the WCSF, but Hakeem drops one of the greatest performances ever in the elimination game - a 49-25 masterclass in the double OT loss. And I do seem to recall Sampson missing at least one crucial FT. Hakeem's fault?

Same story in 1988. Well, in truth, it was worse. The Rockets lost to the Mavs in the first round 3-1, but Hakeem averaged 38-17. He had 41-26 in game 2 (the only game they won) and 40-15 in the elimination game. Hakeem's fault?

The Rockets stayed in mediocrity for the next few years with a very weak supporting cast (Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Sleepy Floyd etc etc). In 1989 first round loss, he still put up 25-13 against the Sonics. In 1990, they were swept by prime Magic's Lakers with James Worthy + Byron Scott etc etc. Again, in 1991 first round vs finalist Lakers, he puts up 22-15. The team was awful in 1992 and they didn't make the playoffs (Hakeem still had 21-12 while missing 12 games).

Remember, this was really before Hakeem's peak (93-95), and this doesn't mention Hakeem's defense... which we know is all time great. Apart from 90 and 92, Hakeem was always amazing and never let his team down. He certainly never threw away series' against underdogs.

Now we get to his peak years, widely accepted as being 1993-1995. In 93, he takes the Sonics to 7 games (a very good and balanced team with Ricky Pierce, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Sam Perkins etc) with Hakeem putting up 23-13-5. Rockets had bad calls going against them throughout the series, particularly game 7. They could have won that, and we might have seen a Rockets vs Bulls final.

Then we get the back-to-back titles. BOTH very underrated, if that's possible. That 1994 team relied on Hakeem like no other team did on their superstar, except perhaps the '03 Spurs and Duncan. Their offense was run ENTIRELY through him... they fed him into the post and he had to make the right play - and pretty much all the time - for them to stand a chance. They beat the prime Barkley-led Suns in 7 games in the WCSF with Hakeem averaging 29-14 (37-17 in the elimination game), beat the Jazz in 5 averaging 28-10. And then the Ewing-led Knicks in 7, limiting Ewing to 18 points on 36% shooting from the field (atrocious for a center of his calliber). Hakeem grabs FMVP.

That 1995 run was arguably the most impressive championship run in history. The Rockets did add Drexler as the second option, but they were only 6th seed. Hakeem was still dominant though and faced incredibly tough competition (at his position) throughout They beat the Jazz 3-2 in the 1st round with Hakeem averaging 35-9-4. Next, beat the Suns in 7 with him at 30-9-4 against Barkley. Next, with arguably the 'best' performance ever by a player in a single series, he put a masterclass against 'MVP' David Robinson (I swear D-Rob was about to fall into tears when Hakeem was pulling dream shakes left, right and center on his sorry ass). Poor D-Rob. And, finally, although the myth that he dominated Shaq in the finals is wrong... he did still outplay Shaq and fully deserved his second FMVP. To put it into context, he took his 45-37 6th seed team and beat 60-22, 59-23, 62-20 and 57-25 teams. Only team to ever beat ALL higher seeded teams I'd imagine.

Then Hakeem started to fall out of his prime. His 1997 team was LOADED with top heavy talent (Hakeem, Drexler, Barkley), but it had no depth and Hakeem was far removed from his prime (34 years old). Look at his numbers, he was still playing well, but the team wasn't constructed well enough to take down the Jazz.

Story of Hakeem's career: carry teams to punch above their weight... and still win a lot against those teams. Virtually ALWAYS perform at the highest level: win or lose. Step it up in crucial games.

And we're talking about a player that's not as good as Kobe? Not as good as Duncan? Not as good as LeBron currently? You kidding me?

I got Hakeem on the tier of Magic, Bird and Shaq, and I don't believe that's overrating him at all.
K Xerxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:02 PM   #2
kennethgriffin
Banned
 
kennethgriffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,211
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

i got lebron and hakeem tied at #10


#1 Jordan
#2 Kareem
#3 Russell
#4 Magic
#5 Kobe
#6 Wilt
#7 Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem/Lebron
kennethgriffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:07 PM   #3
Orlando Magic
National High School Star
 
Orlando Magic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,403
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

He wasn't better than... Jordan, Chamberlain, Russell, O'Neal, Johnson, Bird... and that's about it. 7 spot... maybe 5... definitely after jordan russ wilt shaq.
Orlando Magic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:07 PM   #4
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
The First School
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,005
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
i got lebron and hakeem tied at #10


#1 Jordan
#2 Kareem
#3 Russell
#4 Magic
#5 Kobe
#6 Wilt
#7 Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem/Lebron

Kobe is NOT a top 5 player. He has NEVER impacted the game like Wilt, Bird, Shaq or Duncan did.

At best..Kobe is #8. I have him at 10 personally. Behind Lebron, Duncan and Shaq.

Last edited by kuniva_dAMiGhTy : 06-29-2013 at 09:10 PM.
kuniva_dAMiGhTy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:09 PM   #5
Orlando Magic
National High School Star
 
Orlando Magic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,403
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Kobe is NOT a top 10 player. He has NEVER impacted the game like Wilt, Bird, Shaq or Duncan did.

At best..Kobe is #8. I have him at 10 personally. Behind Lebron, Duncan and Shaq.

Accomplishments and legacy? Kobe is top 10.

Actual impact and ability? He's between 15 and 20... definitely top 30.
Orlando Magic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:11 PM   #6
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
The First School
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,005
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Accomplishments and legacy? Kobe is top 10.

Actual impact and ability? He's between 15 and 20... definitely top 30.

Meant top 5, my bad.
kuniva_dAMiGhTy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:13 PM   #7
1Time4YourMind
Great young streetballer
 
1Time4YourMind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 507
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

hakeem is better or more accomplished than kobe, shaq, interchangeable with lebron and duncan. the guy was a monster on both ends of the court.

it is easier to build around hakeem, than it is to build around magic, bird or jordan. i am not saying he is the better player, but with those 3 players you need a specific type of teammate that can complement their godly skillset.
1Time4YourMind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:16 PM   #8
Horde of Temujin
Operat.Northwoods=9/11
 
Horde of Temujin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Washington Heights, NYC
Posts: 2,328
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Hakeem> Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Russell

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Hakeem
Horde of Temujin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:16 PM   #9
Electric Slide
Banned
 
Electric Slide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Electric Slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:19 PM   #10
K Xerxes
Greatest
 
K Xerxes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,047
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Saying that Kobe is better than Hakeem is like judging games based on box scores only... no context whatsoever.

I know I am heavily outnumbered against the many rabid Kobe stans, but I have actually watched the games, and I know the details.

At this point, he's better than LeBron too. Unlike LeBron, he never eggs against underdogs. LeBron will probably surpass him in the future, but I'm very comfortable in saying that Hakeem is better than him all time right now. And Duncan too.

Last edited by K Xerxes : 06-29-2013 at 09:21 PM.
K Xerxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:19 PM   #11
kennethgriffin
Banned
 
kennethgriffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,211
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Kobe is NOT a top 5 player. He has NEVER impacted the game like Wilt, Bird, Shaq or Duncan did.

At best..Kobe is #8. I have him at 10 personally. Behind Lebron, Duncan and Shaq.


kobe impacted the game more than all those guys. hes the 2nd most popular player ever, hes a god in some countries.. hes the closest thing to jordan ( says jordan "only guy who compares" and his career is more accomplished than all those guys.. shaq never carried the nba.. jordan passed the torch to kobe. kobe passed it to lebron


you f*ckin idiot

7 finals ( most of his generation )
5 titles ( most of his generation )
2 fmvps
1 smvp
4 asmvps ( all time record )
11 first team all nba's ( all time record )
9 first team all defense ( all time record )
15 straight allstar starts ( all time record )
81 point career high
2nd most 60+ point games
3rd most 50+ point games
3rd most 40+ point games
12 three pointers in one game ( all time record )
700 points from #3 all time scorer
300 points from #1 all time playoff scorer
25/5/5 career average
27/6/5 career average as starter
kennethgriffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:22 PM   #12
Electric Slide
Banned
 
Electric Slide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Hakeem did not have a better career than Kobe. Hakeem was dominant for 3 years and that was it. Kobe has been dominant for over 10 years.
Electric Slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:23 PM   #13
KG215
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
KG215's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 20,510
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
i got lebron and hakeem tied at #10


#1 Jordan
#2 Kareem
#3 Russell
#4 Magic
#5 Kobe
#6 Wilt
#7 Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem/Lebron
So, I'm curious....how did Kobe manage to work his way up to #5 on your list in the span of a year? Other than reaching 30,000 points scored, what did he accomplish in that time? Because last summer you started off arguing why he was indisputably ahead of Hakeem, which I think meant you had him at #8. Then you had the infamous "Kobe >>>>>> Shaq and it's not even close" thread, moving him up to #7. And I think you topped it off with a "Kobe > Bird" thread which moved him up to #6.

And now he's #5? I'm guessing by the end of next season you'll have yourself convinced he's #2 or #1 all-time.
KG215 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:24 PM   #14
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,205
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
kobe impacted the game more than all those guys. hes the 2nd most popular player ever, hes a god in some countries.. hes the closest thing to jordan ( says jordan "only guy who compares" and his career is more accomplished than all those guys.. shaq never carried the nba.. jordan passed the torch to kobe. kobe passed it to lebron
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:26 PM   #15
TheCorporation
I go HAM
 
TheCorporation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,624
Default Re: The case for locked-in top 10: Hakeem Olajuwon

LeBron James
2 Finals MVPs
4 Regular Season MVP

Hakeem Olajuwon
2 Finals MVPs
1 Regular Season MVP

Add on the fact that Olajuwon was knocked out of the first round of the playoffs eight, yes, EIGHT times...LeBron James? Zero.

James > Hakeem. C'mon neow.

4 MVPS > 1 MVP
0 1st round KOs > 8 1st round KOs

NEXT
TheCorporation is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy