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Old 02-18-2007, 04:43 PM   #31
reppy
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

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Originally Posted by nashforprez
btw this country was formed on moral, christian beliefs and ever since the country has moved away from being moral, it has decayed. true traditionalists call for a return to the beliefs that began this country

That's fine and all except for when they want to use government funds to promote religion. Or have everything to do with God.

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding rights

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The war isn't senseless, Saddam Hussein needed to be removed. We should have just done that, rebuilt Iraq, and left, but now we're getting involved with Iran and that's a mistake.
Ok, why don't we go around the world and just remove all the evil dictators... The war is senseless. We get attacked by Bin Laden who has no connections to Hussien, but instead of focusing all of our attention on going after him, we make up some bull**** about Weapons of Mass Destruction and get ourselves stuck in Iraq for a good 5 years getting our own soldiers killed every day with no end to this "war" in sight. Great plan Mr. President...
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:47 PM   #33
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding rights

evavgelicals need to go back in time and live with the cavemen. they're too stubborn and full of themselves. science is everywhere and yet they can't see it. not to mention that the bible has been disproved time and time again.

as for Mr. bush and what he's trying to accomplish, have you ever heard of weapons industrial complex? besides natural resources weapons is number 2 money-maker of a powerful country. china, india, the us, iran, the us, etc. look where all these weapons/gadgets of war are coming from. bush isn't the only one to blame. they are a bunch of wealthy and powerful people and nations that are behind all these wars that are happening in the world. these people will do anything at any cost to make sure that there will be some wars going on in the world every now and then so they can make profits out of it by selling their old weapons to the puppeted countries. this is sad but true, and the us is one of the countries and the main country that are making/will make a lot of money out of selling weapons that they don't need anymore to the world. this is one of Mr. president's goals which will take some time for him to succeed. he, though, had completed his first mission, oil.
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

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Because 60 million Americans are evangelicals. Therefore, they refuse to believe in evolution, global warming, in some cases dinosaurs, that the world is older than 6000 years, etc.
no they're not. that's 15% of the population. I'd be surprised if 15% of the population cares enough about their religion to begin with, much less take it that far out of hand. you probably got that number from some paranoid liberal website that knows you can't track those numbers so they just make up a really high sounding number.

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We can never have any sort of peace in the Middle East because they believe that if Israel does not exist exactly as it did in the Old Testament that Jesus will never return. So that means funneling billions of dollars to Israel so they can continue the occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. All the while, gaining the ire of Islamic fundamentalists. And then we scratch our heads and say, "Why did they attack us on 9/11?"
or, maybe we're throwing a group of oppressed people a bone by giving them their own state in the same area as their holy land. oh no. that makes too much sense.

the Insane Christian Right is a problem but you guys are just acting like them here. making up statistics. blowing things out of proportion. suggesting the country would be better off if half of it were blown up in smoke or whatever. it's a bunch of crazy little white people who because of their nature HAPPEN to have more of a mainstream audience than their crazy liberal counterparts. it's not a whole country of scary brainwashed nutsos who want to make America a police state. 80+% of America is not ideological. their votes/opinions aren't even based on faulty information that the media feeds them; it's based on no information at ALL.

the ones to be mad at are the fear mongerers and the ones who know how to play with the emotions of large blocs of people. they know what America's composed of and how to win votes. and it isn't by brainwashing America. it's by ticking them emotionally around election time. and it's easier for conservatives to do that than liberals because by nature liberalism requires more thought. that's why they do better in elections. the only way liberals get anything is if conservatives screw up so badly that even the busy voter who doesn't have any awareness of what's going on knows, "um, I'm not voting for these guys anymore."

so the problem isn't one big sect of America that wants to brainwash us and destroy the country. it's not conservatives or liberals, it's not radicals of any kind and it's not ideology. it's laziness. we go for what's convenient and only like 10-15% of VOTERS vote based on ideology (and that's not even mentioning how many vote on *faulty* ideology which is that "Christian Right" you guys like to talk about) so that means 80% of the country bases their votes on either one issue, emotion, or whim. blame THAT. fix THAT. not a bunch of nutty Christians.

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BTW VCDrivesAPorchse, you need to stop with that lame anti-Islam line. Or post some verses from the Qur'an that back you up. But before you do that, I recommend you:

1) verify the source and translation. Is it a legitimate translation? Someone that knows Arabic? Approved by the Saudi courts?
2) What's the context? Have you read the verses before and after? Does it apply to any time or is it strictly wartime? The Qur'an forbids making war on others unless they have made war on you; do not "transgress the limits."
3) Prove that it's "worse" than anything Moses or any of the prophets of the Old Testament did.
don't even bother. this dude is sub-stupid. goes to NYU so he thinks the entire country is one big liberal fruitcake. just to add fuel to his fire.

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Also, the "color coded" security warning is the biggest hoax ever.
ya. I don't know how anybody could take themselves seriously and come up with that ****. I mean take a step back and analyze... am I really that ****ing stupid? to think this will help? why yes, yes I am.
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:08 PM   #35
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding rights

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don't even bother. this dude is sub-stupid. goes to NYU so he thinks the entire country is one big liberal fruitcake. just to add fuel to his fire.



im a minority in a sea of left (New York City)


then again, Democrats are a "minority" in a sea of Republicans (how else did Bush win the election?) I thought you would understand.



Geewiz, your "keeping it real" is misleading. you think your versatility and candidness benefit you because it makes you unique. but once you reach the real arena, you'll know that it was no more than a childhood hoax.
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:42 PM   #36
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCDrivesAPorscheToWork
im a minority in a sea of left (New York City)


then again, Democrats are a "minority" in a sea of Republicans (how else did Bush win the election?) I thought you would understand.

And the prior election, Bush lost the popular vote.
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:48 PM   #37
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
no they're not. that's 15% of the population. I'd be surprised if 15% of the population cares enough about their religion to begin with, much less take it that far out of hand. you probably got that number from some paranoid liberal website that knows you can't track those numbers so they just make up a really high sounding number.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/

Really dude, where do you live? Goto the Bible belt or something. I live out in hick town.. ever heard someone say it's OK to bomb another country because they're not Christians? Unless you live near me, probably not.

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or, maybe we're throwing a group of oppressed people a bone by giving them their own state in the same area as their holy land. oh no. that makes too much sense.

I never said Israel should be removed. However, they are currently outside of the boundaries they were given. Thus, problems arise. If they were to return to the 1967 boundaries, every Arab country would fully recognize them, as per a ruling by the Saudi courts..

Quote:
the Insane Christian Right is a problem but you guys are just acting like them here. making up statistics. blowing things out of proportion. suggesting the country would be better off if half of it were blown up in smoke or whatever. it's a bunch of crazy little white people who because of their nature HAPPEN to have more of a mainstream audience than their crazy liberal counterparts. it's not a whole country of scary brainwashed nutsos who want to make America a police state. 80+% of America is not ideological. their votes/opinions aren't even based on faulty information that the media feeds them; it's based on no information at ALL.

I'd feel better if people used rationale instead of gut feelings or faith. Especially when it concerns the future of the world.



Unfortunately, I do not have much time at the moment. And those numbers that I just stated come from evangelicals themselves, not the "liberals".

In the movie movie "Jesus Camp", I believe Ted Haggard says it. He also says that if evangelicals vote, Republicans win. This isn't quoting some made up statistic from The Nation magazine or something. This is what the evangelical leaders (Robertson, Falwell, etc) say. They have huge television audiences. Vast networks. Etc.

Don't doubt their power. They're huge. They might not all be religious fanatics, or believe the world is only 6000 years old.. but I'd be willing to bet the majority of them do NOT believe in evolution or global warming. And that many of them believe that Jesus will not return until Israel is restored.
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

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Originally Posted by reppy

wow i just read what they wrote on u.s. schools and they throw a lot of mud at everybody
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:07 PM   #39
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashforprez
btw this country was formed on moral, christian beliefs and ever since the country has moved away from being moral, it has decayed. true traditionalists call for a return to the beliefs that began this country

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Old 02-18-2007, 06:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."
-Alexis de Tocqueville

People just look at the Romans for example. They built a mighty empire with hard work and lost it because they became obsessed with vanities. America is heading down the same path because of the lack of morals and a floundering school system. You can put the blame on the president, you can put the blame on anyone you wish, but you have to look at yourself and ask am I doing all I can to better this country?
I know some of you are going to pull up the webpage where it states that the quote I used is fake but you should ask yourself is it really that important? Here I have pulled it up for you.http://www.tocqueville.org/pitney.htm
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:54 PM   #41
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashforprez
btw this country was formed on moral, christian beliefs and ever since the country has moved away from being moral, it has decayed. true traditionalists call for a return to the beliefs that began this country

YOU ARE SO ****ING WRONG.

The first people that came to this country from england were people who wanted gold and adventure and people who were the second son in the family and wouldnt get the fortune from his father.

I hate stupid people who believe that.

Nashforprez have you ever read the book "The Crucible?" Ok well eat this-they would put red letter "As" on women's chests for adulterer. Real kind. They would dip women in a sea for punishment for being a witch and they would throw women into water to test if they are a witch or not. If they could swim then they were a witch and would kill them and if they drowned they werent a witch but died anyways.

Awesome moral beliefs, seriously just awesome.

Last edited by The_Masterplan : 02-18-2007 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:08 PM   #42
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

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Originally Posted by different107
Do you have anything to add? Because that really wasn't a good reason to defend Bush's actions... at all.
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:09 PM   #43
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

Tehre is no way to settle iraq unless you split them into three countries like it was at one point. Kurds, shi-ttes, and sunni.
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:13 PM   #44
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding ri

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Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
Do you have anything to add? Because that really wasn't a good reason to defend Bush's actions... at all.

i didnt defend bushs actions
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:21 PM   #45
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Default Re: Concern: Pro Bush 'Traditionalists' Suck. Their views are based on withholding rights

This is one of those threads where it can go into so many different directions and create such controversy. I am torn on whether to jump into the fray. I think I won't.

I'd rather just keep on basketball.... we certainly have plenty to argue about there.... HAHAHA



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