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Old 07-16-2013, 04:31 AM   #46
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Default Re: Identity

When a player always shoots poorly in the playoffs...you're garbage.

39% 40% 43%


If I told someone that a player who makes 20 million dollars had a 40% shooting playoff run and 27% from three with a usage rate of 40 with 1 assist, that player should literally get the hell off the team.

Cant blame it in on the teammate when the teammates shot better from the field.

There was only two players on the team to shot worse from the three.....

Kidd and JR....and neither of them started a single game.

Melo was the least efficent starter on the club while taking almost as many shots than the entire starting lineup COMBINED.

Every single starter either shot better from three or better from the field overall, which is exactly why most of them complained about the offense.

How does one player seriously take over 300 shots in two rounds?

Then actually have the nerve to say in closing "we teased the city a little, now they expect us to do this every year"

Expect what? To get beat by inferior opponents?

Melo is not a playoff performer, he doesnt have the will to win in his blood.

Sorry, but I dont support losers.....win when it matters if you want my support....he's a regular season player, not playoff built.

When you struggle against a team with no pg at all and lose against a team that didnt have their best player for the whole year.....you stink.

When Melo opts out next season, he should not make more than 12 million.

Only two way players, efficient scorers, defensive anchors should get more.

Melo is a second rate player, and should be paid as one.

But I fully expect him to opt out and sign that 5 year 129 million dollar max contract which will give him a starting salary of 25 mil which is almost half the cap.

And then complain he doesnt have any help.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #47
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Default Re: Identity

You can continue to question my basketball knowledge. I would rather be seen an idiot than agree with the stuff you've said over the past season. I may be knowledge-less in you eyes, but in my eyes, people with basketball knowledge don't say the following:

A person who avg 28 and 7 is in the playoffs is garbage.
Pablo Prigioni is good but Carmelo Anthony is garbage
Pablo Prigioni is better than Raymond Felton
A team that started James White, Pablo Prigioni, Chris Copeland, Jason Kidd, Kurt Thomas, Ronnie Brewer etc were supposed to be in the Finals.
A team that saw it's highest paid player play 29 games is a contender.
A team that was on it's 4th or 5th PF is still expected to be a contender.
A team that saw 3 PGs combine for 8 points and 2 of 13.
Carmelo Anthony is only worth a max of 12 million dollars but Grunwald isn't dumb for amnestying Billups and paying Chandler 14 million dollars.

So if my knowledge is in question or whether I even watch the games...so be it.

Last edited by franchize : 07-16-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:38 PM   #48
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Default Re: Identity

I will say this I hate when you say 28-6 the bottom line isnt the story. The story is how did he get that 28.

40% from the floor, 29% from 3, 6 rebounds (not good for your PF), 1.6 asst 1.1 stls 2.6 TO's.

None of that is good. That gets on my nerves Franchize and Clutch honestly. Dont tell me his 28 and 6 was good. You cant put up Rudy Gay type numbers and get paid like LBJ. Franchize and Clutch you know why some players get passes for not winning because they did everything on the floor at a high level and the team didnt have enough talent. Your argument is Melo cant be at a high level because he has no teammates. That it in itself means he isnt built to be the man. Dont sell me he as an Elite player then we all good.

If he opts out and wants max money sorry I dont want him. He isnt good enough to eat up the teams cap and have lesser players around him then not win. He isnt a 20 million dollar plus player to me. (Of course I dont think Stat, Tyson are worth their contracts but the Knicks overpay or get nothing) Market supply and demand dictates salary.

I rather have Melo on the team and have a draw than without because this team will never be able to get another draw on their own.

My point in all this is probably in between all of you. I know Melo isnt that good so this team needs A LOT MORE HELP.

Last edited by Rameek : 07-16-2013 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:23 PM   #49
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I will say this I hate when you say 28-6 the bottom line isnt the story. The story is how did he get that 28.

40% from the floor, 29% from 3, 6 rebounds (not good for your PF), 1.6 asst 1.1 stls 2.6 TO's.

.[/size][/u]

There's a difference between inefficient and being garbage. And to say 6 rebounds isn't good for a PF...further proves my point. HE ISN'T A POWER FORWARD! He was ASKED to be our power forward because the dude we pay MORE than him to be such was a virtual no show.

End of the day, as I've said before...It just seems like people aren't mad at Melo because of his play. People are mad at him for not being LeBron James. Guess what? LeBron ain't coming here....and it's partially because of the same hypocritical fans that are dissing Melo. So when you bring up the "nobody wants to play here because..." argument, kindly look in the mirror and point to yourselves until you put a bullet sized hole in your chest. If there is ANY reason why someone wouldn't want to play in NY it's because you have fans like Knickscity that act like I'm some type of idiot because I don't think Prigioni is good and Melo is garbage.

Time for our ignorant fan base to try something different. The players we've embraced (Jeffries, Ward, Harrelson, Novak, Prigioni, Kidd, Chandler,etc) have been utter bums in the post season. The players who've gotten the most criticism actually have been some of the most talented players in the league.

There's only ONE LeBron James. There's only ONE Kevin Durant. NEITHER have won rings without help. NEITHER are coming here. To say a player is garbage and isn't worth more than 12 million simply because they aren't them.... guess what....that applies to every other player in the league. They are the 2 best players in the NBA. I repeat, LeBron and Kevin aren't coming here guys. You'd better embrace the guy who was willing to and has gotten us to the post season 3 times in 3 years. Unless, of course, you want 10 more years of sitting around waiting for guys like Gallo to become superstars and overpaying bums like Jared Jeffries so Knickscity and Mike Breen can tell us all the things we don't see that he's doing. You know...because we lack the knowledge to see things with the "expertise" they do.

Anyway, I'm done with this argument. This wasn't even the premise of my original topic. End of the day, Melo is a top 10 player in the league in my opinion. Prigioni is a 3rd string PG. Grunwald is an idiotic GM. This roster is a clusterfukk of guys just like it was under Isaiah. And I will continue to preach that as until I see otherwise.

Last edited by franchize : 07-16-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: Identity

You mention LBJ and KD as far as performance. I said he shouldnt be paid like them. Dont get it twisted. He is a scorer and nothing more. If that constitutes a top 10 player then so be it. He isnt as good as them and he isnt an elite player. If you believe he is I dont begrudge you that. Thats your opinion. You can switch it and push off all the blame on the role players all you like. Elite players show up and perform regardless of what the team is doing. If that said player doesnt win then people look at everyone else first.

He isnt good enough so he needs better players around him. Role players dont make the Star become better the Star player makes the role players better. That is the bottom line.

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Old 07-16-2013, 03:29 PM   #51
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
You mention LBJ and KD as far as performance. I said he shouldnt be paid like them. Dont get it twisted. He is a scorer and nothing more. If that constitutes a top 10 player then so be it. He isnt as good as them and he isnt an elite player. If you believe he is I dont begrudge you that. Thats your opinion. You can switch it and push off all the blame on the role players all you like. Elite players show up and perform regardless of what the team is doing. If that said player doesnt win then people look at everyone else first.

He isnt good enough so he needs better players around him. Role players dont make the Star become better the Star player makes the role players better. That is the bottom line.


Except I didn't blame ONLY the role players. But there is a distinct differnce between our role players and other teams role players. You can't get a team full of guys nobody wants and say "go make them a championship team." LeBron James wouldn't win a ring with last year's team.

And I'd argue that Melo, while not consistently efficient, has showed up in the playoffs. But whatever...he's who we got and he's easily been the best Knick we've had since Ewing. I'm going to continue to support our best player. Until Amare is gone, I can't even fix my face to complain about Melo's contract.

Last edited by franchize : 07-16-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:38 PM   #52
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Except I didn't blame ONLY the role players. But there is a distinct differnce between our role players and other teams role players. You can't get a team full of guys nobody wants and say "go make them a championship team." LeBron James wouldn't win a ring with last year's team.

And I'd argue that Melo, while not consistently efficient, has showed up in the playoffs. But whatever...he's who we got and he's easily been the best Knick we've had since Ewing. I'm going to continue to support our best player. Until Amare is gone, I can't even fix my face to complain about Melo's contract.
Like I said he isnt as bad as Knickcity is saying and no where as good as what you claim him to be.

He is needed at this point. But in the same breath because he is a limited player he needs WAY more help.

If he opts out though and gets 20 plus million again I will kill him first.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:58 AM   #53
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Like I said he isnt as bad as Knickcity is saying and no where as good as what you claim him to be.

He is needed at this point. But in the same breath because he is a limited player he needs WAY more help.

If he opts out though and gets 20 plus million again I will kill him first.

Welp...I respectfully disagree but whatever. Even if he is as good as I think he is, he still needs help.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Welp...I respectfully disagree but whatever. Even if he is as good as I think he is, he still needs help.
He shouldnt be this inefficient because his role players are bad. He should be efficient because he is. Role players dont make the star better. The Star makes the role players better.

40% from the floor, 29% from 3, 6 rebounds (not good for your PF), 1.6 asst 1.1 stls 2.6 TO's. This is what Rudy Gay could do too if he took 5 or 6 more shots.

There is no disputing he needs help. I think he needs major help. He isnt a 20 million dollar plus player.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:35 AM   #55
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
He shouldnt be this inefficient because his role players are bad. He should be efficient because he is. Role players dont make the star better. The Star makes the role players better.

40% from the floor, 29% from 3, 6 rebounds (not good for your PF), 1.6 asst 1.1 stls 2.6 TO's. This is what Rudy Gay could do too if he took 5 or 6 more shots.

There is no disputing he needs help. I think he needs major help. He isnt a 20 million dollar plus player.
Like I said...I disagree. I think lack of help does affect your shooting % but ultimately it doesn't excuse it. I also disagree that he's not a max player. I think Carmelo Anthony is a top 10 player in the league. I think he's far better than Rudy Gay, especially given the fact that Gay has only played in like one post season and really was just ok. I don't speculate on what guys COULD do. I go by what guys do. And Rudy Gay doesn't strike me as a player who's even in the conversation with guys like Melo.

What I see when I see Melo is a guy who, on any given night, can look like the best player on the court regardless of who is playing. I'm not saying he's the best in the league, but when you possess that quality, I consider you an elite player. I also see a guy in elimination games as a Knick drop
32 and 9
38 and 5
39 and 7

Is he LeBron?..no. Is he Durant?...no. Does his shooting % need to improve? Absolutely. But there aren't many players outside of them I would trade for Carmelo Anthony. Maybe 3 others. And for that reason, I consider him an elite player. If you disagree...so be it.

Once again, we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on because nothing you or Knickscity has said in your opposing arguments have convinced me otherwise and I'm guessing the feeling is mutual.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:57 AM   #56
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Default Re: Identity

Huge difference between wanting your best player to fit around the role players and role players fitting around the best player


I've always thought Carmelo is "just an all star" from the perimeter- but an all time great as a power 3
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:31 PM   #57
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Like I said...I disagree. I think lack of help does affect your shooting % but ultimately it doesn't excuse it. I also disagree that he's not a max player. I think Carmelo Anthony is a top 10 player in the league. I think he's far better than Rudy Gay, especially given the fact that Gay has only played in like one post season and really was just ok. I don't speculate on what guys COULD do. I go by what guys do. And Rudy Gay doesn't strike me as a player who's even in the conversation with guys like Melo.

What I see when I see Melo is a guy who, on any given night, can look like the best player on the court regardless of who is playing. I'm not saying he's the best in the league, but when you possess that quality, I consider you an elite player. I also see a guy in elimination games as a Knick drop
32 and 9
38 and 5
39 and 7

Is he LeBron?..no. Is he Durant?...no. Does his shooting % need to improve? Absolutely. But there aren't many players outside of them I would trade for Carmelo Anthony. Maybe 3 others. And for that reason, I consider him an elite player. If you disagree...so be it.

Once again, we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on because nothing you or Knickscity has said in your opposing arguments have convinced me otherwise and I'm guessing the feeling is mutual.
You can post every overall number you want. He doesnt play efficiently. Nothing he does suggest that he is an elite player. Besides there arent many elite players that can carry a team thats just how the league is now. There are many made up superstars. Just because there arent many great players at the SF position doesnt mean he has to be a great player. Just because there arent many elite centers doesnt mean number 5 is a great player.

If you peel the onion back a couple of layers you see Rudy Gay, look at all the numbers. Same player with 5 or 6 less shots.

You havent said nothing to say this guy is an elite player. You just say 28 and 6 thats trash when you have to shoot like 25 times. He has more TO's than assit steals blocks. 6 rebounds for your starting PF is trash.

The guy is a inefficient volume scorer and has a repertoire, hey the guy isnt scared to take the last shot. The guy is what they call a superstar these days fine. Market dictates salary and I dont want to count any mans pockets but he isnt good enough to carry a team then he isnt good enough to be 20 million plus player.

Do the Knicks need him? OBVIOUSLY. Can he carry the team? NO. Does he need help? YES, significant help. Is everything his fault? NO.

My new saying;

Role players dont make the Superstar better the Superstar makes the Role players better.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:34 PM   #58
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
You can post every overall number you want. He doesnt play efficiently. Nothing he does suggest that he is an elite player. Besides there arent many elite players that can carry a team thats just how the league is now. There are many made up superstars. Just because there arent many great players at the SF position doesnt mean he has to be a great player. Just because there arent many elite centers doesnt mean number 5 is a great player.

If you peel the onion back a couple of layers you see Rudy Gay, look at all the numbers. Same player with 5 or 6 less shots.

You havent said nothing to say this guy is an elite player. You just say 28 and 6 thats trash when you have to shoot like 25 times. He has more TO's than assit steals blocks. 6 rebounds for your starting PF is trash.

The guy is a inefficient volume scorer and has a repertoire, hey the guy isnt scared to take the last shot. The guy is what they call a superstar these days fine. Market dictates salary and I dont want to count any mans pockets but he isnt good enough to carry a team then he isnt good enough to be 20 million plus player.

Do the Knicks need him? OBVIOUSLY. Can he carry the team? NO. Does he need help? YES, significant help. Is everything his fault? NO.

My new saying;

Role players dont make the Superstar better the Superstar makes the Role players better.

As I said...we'll agree to disagree. I disagree with basically everything you've said (especially about him not being able to carry the team. We had a team burdened by various bums and won 54 games) and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. So be it.

I also disagree that you've somehow proved your point and I've said nothing. Time to move on from this argument. We'll just have to be polar opposites on this one.

Last edited by franchize : 07-18-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #59
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Default Re: Identity

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
As I said...we'll agree to disagree. I disagree with basically everything you've said (especially about him not being able to carry the team. We had a team full of bums and won 54 games) and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. So be it.

They won 54 games because most players played way above there abilities and pay grade and were coached up. Last season was a miracle and the East was HORRENDOUS last year and the East could even be worse this year so a repeat isnt out of the question. Playoffs are pretty much a lock anyways with the almost a top 5 seed guaranteed how bad the league is and how many teams are going to tank for the draft next year or so and FA pursuits.

I am on your side though! You're more right than anything. If this team is going to do anything he is going to need a significant number 2. A legit player that can be counted on consistently. More trustworthy teammates.
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