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Old 07-10-2013, 09:00 AM   #31
LJJ
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
parliamentary elections were at the end of 2011, presidential elections were a few months into 2012... no?

as for substance, that's an oversimplification. the presidency may have more of a face but that doesn't mean the party in executive office doesn't hold major power.

furthermore its pretty questionable that the parliamentary elections were substantive on the national scene at all. just a thesis i've come across, of you're interested, the legacy of the mubarak years are a sorta random collection of influential families and elites with whom he build alliances to enforce his will and maintain stability. just what you get with unprincipled military dictatorships. the fact mubarak got tossed doesn't mean his whole establishmenti was thrown out with him. those powerful elites retained substantial control of their areas, and the distribution of goods and services that people are currently desperate for go along with it.

the point is that parliamentary elections almost inevitably boil down to issues of patronage, whats my vote gonna get me and my family in the short term, etc. especially in a brand new democratic system that's relied on a brutal top-down hierarchy for as long as it has. sure party platforms have all sorts of fancy nationalist / reformist rhetoric but from what i understand, that wasn't so much the nature of the vote when it occurred, or the campaigns that were run in the months leading up.

flies in the face of what you're saying here

Ah yes, I've gotten the dates between the two messed up, the presidential election took place a couple of months after the parliamentary election. Excuse me for that.

Still I think all these arguments to somehow invalidate the fact that Egypt voted overwhelmingly for an islamist political doctrine don't hold much ground.

It's nice and easy to say (without evidence) that the Egyptian populace voted for an islamist government for the wrong reasons and didn't realize what they were getting themselves into. The Muslim Brotherhood won the election with a huge margin, the arguably even more islamist Al Nour party came in second also by a huge margin. Let's say that it is true that these parties did not truly deserve those votes idealogically, which I really don't think it is. The democratic system, even Egypt's budding democratic system, has more than enough check and balances in place to assure this will be corrected. You don't need the army to step in.

I think we just need to be honest with ourselves here. This all-encompassing justification by the media and by many people themselves happens everytime a disagreeable anti-western regime is disposed.
Everybody in the west is happy the military stepped in because now there is a chance a handful of technocrats can lay down a secular and tolerant constitution and governmental system. So the next time the islamists are voted into power there is a secular fundament to protect the liberals and other political/racial/religious minorities in Egypt from the tyranny of the majority. Those are some very nice, cozy western standards that I actually agree with, and in that sense I am happy too the military stepped in. But we don't need to pretend that there is anything democratic about this all and that this is what the majority in Egypt actually wants. We need to do without the spin.
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