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Old 07-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

Never got the appeal of ADC and I dont know who the other guy is.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

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Originally Posted by Dasher
Dice had a Steve Martinesque peak. Very few comedians have ever approached being the box-office draw that prime-Dice was. His fall into relative obscurity is something out of a Greek tragedy. Katt was big, but not Dice big. His fall off was predictable because he isn't a real comic. Katt was all charisma. If he had some good writers, he could've been way bigger than he was. His mannerisms were all topnotch, but he always lacked the technical skill to put together a good bit or string good bits together. Other than The Hustlin/Fry Cook bit none of his stuff was particularly good.


I'm among the oldest on here, and even I don't fully comprehend the Steve Martin phenomona of the 70s. I have a fond memory of watching re-runs of his SNL stuff. And I have a long memory of his movie work throughout my youth, a lot of which was really funny, but I'm at an age where I saw stuff like The Jerk on VHS during sleepovers at my cousins', and more of my memories are of Planes Trains and Automobiles, and the stuff from that era. And the weird thing is in my mind, I know him more as the dry straight man, who I loved, but that's not at all the manic clown act that made him the most successfull stand up ever.
And weirdly, if you were there in the 70s, it was Steve Martin. But for me looking back, 70s stand up, which was a golden era, he doesn't come to mind very quickly at all. It's the Pryor and Carlin stuff that's lasted for eternity. And even then, I have more iconic feeling about Robin Williams stand up from that era, and even someone like Robert Klein, just because his stuff was right on the cusp of the HBO stand up phenomena. I just don't have the impression of the Steve Martin boom that the people who lived through it have. Opie and Anthony were talking about it a few weeks ago, and both of them claim to have never quite gotten it. It's got sort of a touchstone element to it in Freaks n Geeks, where those kids were the first group of comedy nerds sort of. And obviously Judd Appatow is coming from his own experience there, and I'm sure he lived through that rush of comic inspiration from that era. The Martin Starr character talks about The Jerk in an episode of that show like it's The Zupruder film (they also diagnose Stripes in a similar light, so that show comes a bit after the real Martin peak, but still).

And yet for me, I just don't see it. I don't get the King Tut song, or the arrow through the head. That's pretty much all I see, and I just have no interest in him beyond that.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

I only recently found out about The Steve Martin phenomenon. I've seen clips of him from that era, and I don't get it either. I chalked it up to me not being born at the time. It's hard for me to figure out where the punchlines are.

Robin Williams was manic, but "Live At The Met" still goes pretty hard. Woody Allen was fairly manic as well, in a nebbishy way, but "Standup Comic" is still hilarious.

Steve Martin is just weird to me. Maybe I need to give it another try.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
I only recently found out about The Steve Martin phenomenon. I've seen clips of him from that era, and I don't get it either. I chalked it up to me not being born at the time. It's hard for me to figure out where the punchlines are.

Robin Williams was manic, but "Live At The Met" still goes pretty hard. Woody Allen was fairly manic as well, in a nebbishy way, but "Standup Comic" is still hilarious.

Steve Martin is just weird to me. Maybe I need to give it another try.

Me too. And it's weird because it's really just the stand up thing. I like his old SNL stuff enough. He's not my favorite, but he's admittedly excellent. And I enjoy some of his film stuff. Totally appreciate The Jerk, and actually like him quite a bit as a straight man in stuff like Planes Trains and Automobiles, and Father of the Bride even.

I just don't get the stand up at all. And I just learned about just how huge he was too mainly from Opie and Anthony. I knew he was big but not quite the scope. Carlin and Prior are basically the Bird and Magic of the era, but it's like the entire planet went nuts decided that Ralph Sampson was the greatest NBA player ever for a few years there. And I'm with you, I just don't find the stuff I've seen to be very funny. The King Tut song in particular sold over a million copies. That's crazy to me.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:13 AM   #20
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous

I've actually sort of enjoyed the current Dice, who mostly is looking back at his fame in this flaming ego way, and writing off of that. And it's very true to life. He talks about his family a lot more, and his experiences. He's doing club work now, a casino occasionally, he was at a tiny club that I've done some open mics at. So I'd say he fell about as hard as is possible in that industry. He's on Opie and Anthony periodically, and his new character trait is a fiery temper that can be set off by bringing up his success as if it's a thing from the past. And it works. It doesn't hurt that Ant does a killer Dice impression. And he sells this stuff like a pro wrestling heel.

You wanna expand on your experience Thorp?
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:37 AM   #21
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

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Originally Posted by Bucket_Nakedz

Chappelle went off the map because he was talking about sh*t you shouldn't be talking about. He was at the top of his game, but when he started getting into the stuff "those in power" don't want revealed, his game was over.

ADC did the same thing. If you are a celeb, you don't want to f*ck with the guys who control your paycheck.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:01 AM   #22
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
Dice was so huge in the late 80's early 90's it's almost hard to explain. He was legitimately like a rock star. Selling out massive arenas. I never even understood why someone would want to see a standup in that setting. And it happens very very rarely.
His material was retarded. And he was playing a character. Just a string of crass one liners, and his little gimmicky limerick bit. I liked him enough, but even as a kid it wasn't my thing. Actually enjoyed his movie as a kid. He appealed to a wide range of audience. Kids liked him just for his vulgarness. Men liked him because of his objectification of women. And even a lot of women liked him for it. But it's very difficult to continue to write material to fit into this bit character he created that really had no depth. His only perspective was this one crass point of view. So the material dried up, and he had become too famous to be accepted as anyone else. I think this happens with a lot of character comics, like Larry the Cable Guy, who's still on the tail end of his ride probably technically.

I've actually sort of enjoyed the current Dice, who mostly is looking back at his fame in this flaming ego way, and writing off of that. And it's very true to life. He talks about his family a lot more, and his experiences. He's doing club work now, a casino occasionally, he was at a tiny club that I've done some open mics at. So I'd say he fell about as hard as is possible in that industry. He's on Opie and Anthony periodically, and his new character trait is a fiery temper that can be set off by bringing up his success as if it's a thing from the past. And it works. It doesn't hurt that Ant does a killer Dice impression. And he sells this stuff like a pro wrestling heel.
What's interesting about Clay is that he was highly thought of among comedians for a long time before he made it big. Back then, Dice was just one of many characters he would do during his standup.

Once he got pigeonholed into that one specific character, his fame soured, but his material suffered. Guy was a legitimate talent prior to the hysteria.

Katt Williams? Never understood the fuss.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
What's interesting about Clay is that he was highly thought of among comedians for a long time before he made it big. Back then, Dice was just one of many characters he would do during his standup.

Once he got pigeonholed into that one specific character, his fame soured, but his material suffered. Guy was a legitimate talent prior to the hysteria.

Katt Williams? Never understood the fuss.
Katt Williams was the exact same way, Katt is a character from Friday After Next. Before Friday after next, he used to have a regular set. After, he's now a pimp.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:15 AM   #24
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Default Re: Andrew Dice Clay vs. Katt Williams: Who fell off harder?

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Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Katt Williams was the exact same way, Katt is a character from Friday After Next. Before Friday after next, he used to have a regular set. After, he's now a pimp.

So THAT'S why he's famous. I never bothered to watch any of the sequels.
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