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Old 07-06-2013, 06:03 PM   #1
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Default Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

As the thread title reports. It is necessary for those who follow the news to know exactly what is going on. Since June 30th, 2013, millions and millions of ANTI-MORSi civilians have been in the streets protesting peacefully.

After a few days, citizens from Hammas (in palestine) came to the rescue of former president Morsi, with RPG's and other types of weapons. After learning of this, the Egyptian Military, called upon by the citizens themselves, came in to aid the millions of unarmed civilians against Morsi and his regime.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY THE AMERICAN MEDIA.

This is not a coup at all.

This is a continuation of the revolution from 2011, for the purpose of bringing democracy to Egypt. Extreme Islam is not the answer to this mission.

Everyone needs to know the truth, and I will not stop getting this message out so that people can see just how courageous these brave hearts are.

Peace on earth, and good will towards man.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

As I understand it, even if they had determined it to be a coup, the administration here in the US was looking for and ready to exploit a loophole aid law that would allow them to continue sending financial support to Egypt (primarily to the military). So ostensibly there is American support for the instituting of a genuinely democratic system (one that is amenable to US interests, of course).
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

I expect another american puppet to rule Egypt.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

They ousted a democratically elected president. It was a coup.

I'm not saying it was wrong either. Morsi's crew was full of Islamist extremists and I'm glad they are gone. The problem is, as we've seen time and time again in the middle east, there's a good chance the next regime is just as bad.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Its hysterical how badly the US media misreads the situations in Egypt and Syria. I've read comments on almost every article I've seen where the majority supports taking out the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and denying them power in Syria, yet every politician and news source here reads it completely opposite.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

source re: the hamas narrative? i doubt hamas played any significant role in morsi's crackdown


Quote:
This is a continuation of the revolution from 2011, for the purpose of bringing democracy to Egypt. Extreme Islam is not the answer to this mission.
what people need to understand is that democracy and theocracy are not mutually exclusive. the egyptian case is quite similar to the turkish case from what i can gather...

in each instance, the national leader was elected on a religious platform relying predominantly on a very well organized fundamentalist base and a completely fragmented secular opposition. both erdogen and morsi overstepped their bounds implementing an islamist agenda that pissed off a lot of people and caused mass demonstration. and then they both made the crucial mistake of assuming a military crackdown could quell the protest. in both cases, knee jerk violence only exacerbated the situation by pissing the people off further.

the key differences between these countries are, imo anyway, the domestic economy at the time and the state of the military at the time. economically, turkey has been stable for well over a decade whereas egypt is a nascent democracy which for two years has been gasping for oxygen.

the deep military apparatus in turkey, which since independence has initiated countless coup d'etats, was mostly dismantled by erdogen a decade ago. as it stands now, its mostly under control of the civilian government aka the AKP led by Erdogen. in egypt, the supreme council of the armed forces is the most active economic agent in the country, has numerous institutions (including from my understanding, the constitutional court, the police, various ministries) under its thumb, and has been directly bucked on numerous occasions by the Morsi government. so in turkey, the military very much aligned with the government, whereas in egypt, the military is absolutely and diametrically opposed to the government.

that point actually has a history. the brotherhood in egypt is probably stronger than anywhere else in the world but its been deeply battered and systematically oppressed for decades prior to 2011, and the damage was done by SCAF. it turned into something of a secret society. its leaders and intelligentsia imprisoned, its meetings spied on when they weren't broken up. that sort of institutional criminalization of an organization is bound to infect the entire organization top to bottom on either side... they formed something of a pact after the brotherhood won elections last year but make no mistake, animosity still raged.

regardless, the first point on the economic situation simply means that, just generally speaking, things are gonna be waaaaay messier. messy revolutionary politics lead to power voids. in tumultuous times, there's an inevitable race to fill those voids by whomever happens to have strength and organization enough at the time to do it. in egypt, given their status, thaaaaat would be the military.



long story short, the egyptian crisis is in its essence, a coup. but that hijack of power was two pronged.

first the military hijacked the massive (and at least somewhat justified) movement on the streets by claiming it represented its interests. that would only be true if the movement's only interest was to get morsi and the brotherhood out of power. that's self-evidently false... the underlying reasons for mubarak and morsi getting the boot overlap. the islamist agenda is on the surface of a much deeper well of violence and oppression that's systematic and stood without challenge for decades. and of course, in the ultimate irony and betrayal of egyptians, SCAF was a key player in building and maintaining those systems. now it's just been studded with a few secular politicians and copt leaders to improve their image.

the second prong of the coup is obviously the actual maneuver that criminalized the muslim brotherhood and installed "a regime of problem solvers and technocrats" in its stead.



the next question is obviously, what next. the "roadmap" will clearly deal with economic issues first and foremost. that's right and probably popularly supported by the population since everything is currently in shambles. but eventually political issues will have to be engaged..... and the muslim brotherhood isn't just going to fade away after this setback, as i said, it's been dealing with these for decades. will the muslim brotherhood be allowed to participate in future elections? what if they win? and if they aren't allowed, will we be able to stifle our vomit long enough to call the democratic process free and fair?
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

rather than wading thru my post, this is a good article to take a look at. it actually argues the same point as the op, that this wasn't a coup d'etat..... not because the army didn't take power but because they never lost it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:04 AM   #8
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

The protests against Morsi are a minority opinion.

Like it or not, Morsi was democratically elected. In the following parliamentary elections the Egyptian people overwhelmingly voted for a fundamental Islamist agenda with the Muslim Brotherhood party and other Islamists parties receiving roughly 75% of the popular vote.

Outsiders want to believe that the reason why the Egyptian revolution took place and the reason Morsi was ousted just now is because the majority of the Egyptian population want a moderate, secular democracy promoting individual freedom and western values. And that a well organized minority of Islamists simply took advantage of the turmoil to take over. If you look at the numbers this is clearly not the case, the fundamentalists are the majority and are also the main cause of the revolution. The army halting Morsi right now is simply a case of the old Mubarak regime rearing it's head, after this transition to democracy didn't quite turn out the way the planned and started challenging their remaining power.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmulls
They ousted a democratically elected president. It was a coup.

I'm not saying it was wrong either. Morsi's crew was full of Islamist extremists and I'm glad they are gone. The problem is, as we've seen time and time again in the middle east, there's a good chance the next regime is just as bad.

he should have agreed to a re-election, seeing as they had just drafted a new constitution. it only makes sense. the fact that he not only denied a new vote, but also had given himself more and more unilateral decision-making power made it clear his interests were not in the best interests of the Egyptian people.

Morsi was never the answer to begin with. He was a puppet. Like Mubarak before him and Sadat before that. Egypt will never rest until its parties moderate their rhetoric as well as learn how to distance themselves from interference from the outside. The fact that El Baradei has been appointment interim prime minister has U.S. written ALL OVER it. So don't be surprised that in 1 years time, we are talking about revolution 3.0.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
The protests against Morsi are a minority opinion.

Like it or not, Morsi was democratically elected. In the following parliamentary elections the Egyptian people overwhelmingly voted for a fundamental Islamist agenda with the Muslim Brotherhood party and other Islamists parties receiving roughly 75% of the popular vote.

Outsiders want to believe that the reason why the Egyptian revolution took place and the reason Morsi was ousted just now is because the majority of the Egyptian population want a moderate, secular democracy promoting individual freedom and western values. And that a well organized minority of Islamists simply took advantage of the turmoil to take over. If you look at the numbers this is clearly not the case, the fundamentalists are the majority and are also the main cause of the revolution. The army halting Morsi right now is simply a case of the old Mubarak regime rearing it's head, after this transition to democracy didn't quite turn out the way the planned and started challenging their remaining power.

The majority of Egyptians are uneducated racist farmers and villagers.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Young
The majority of Egyptians are uneducated racist farmers and villagers.

Yes.

Sounds like the majority of the population in most countries.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...320932698.html
What a mess.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddy

this is extremely troubling to me. I don't see anything on any other news station about this. thanks for posting.

Tomorrow begins the holy month of Ramadan. This is really sad news.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
The protests against Morsi are a minority opinion.

Like it or not, Morsi was democratically elected. In the following parliamentary elections the Egyptian people overwhelmingly voted for a fundamental Islamist agenda with the Muslim Brotherhood party and other Islamists parties receiving roughly 75% of the popular vote.

Outsiders want to believe that the reason why the Egyptian revolution took place and the reason Morsi was ousted just now is because the majority of the Egyptian population want a moderate, secular democracy promoting individual freedom and western values. And that a well organized minority of Islamists simply took advantage of the turmoil to take over. If you look at the numbers this is clearly not the case, the fundamentalists are the majority and are also the main cause of the revolution. The army halting Morsi right now is simply a case of the old Mubarak regime rearing it's head, after this transition to democracy didn't quite turn out the way the planned and started challenging their remaining power.


LJJ,

This is absolutely inaccurate on every point.

Since June 30th, millions of people went into the street to overthrow Morsi. That's four days before it went to CNN.

It was even reported on LA times that the military was giving Morsi "24 hours to give into the people's demands".

Democratically elected? Ask 10.5 million of the citizens who voted mubarak just why they voted Morsi. You will find out that brotherhood muslims were out there bribing citizens with oil and rice, and other incentives. Not to mention that the only party that was running against the brotherhood, was a former member of Mubarak's regime. There were at least 12 other people running for president, that were quickly eliminated from the campaign by the brotherhood. 75%??? That number was not reported even in Egypt. A total of around 22 million voted (in a country of 90 million). The numbers showed a difference of less than a few thousand between the two parties.

How many innocent minorities must be thrown in jail? How many churches are going to be destroyed? How many young adolescents, are going to be brutally beaten to their death because of what religion they are?

What in God's name is it going to take for people to understand that extremism is in FACT terrorism? How can the U.S. be putting these type of people in power, letting them do their thing, and then sleep at night comfortably with their families while the rest of the world is turning to garbage?

This is simply not politics anymore. This is a matter of right and wrong. There is only one right answer here. The answer, no matter who runs the country, is that people need to live under a roof, make a living, and practice their religions peacefully.

In a country that has 10 million Coptic Christians, and less than half a million brotherhood muslims, and the rest being moderate muslims who want a legitimate democracy as much as any one else would, you have the capacity to call this a "minority opinion"?
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: Egypt: Revolution 2.0 is NOT a coup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmulls
They ousted a democratically elected president. It was a coup.

I'm not saying it was wrong either. Morsi's crew was full of Islamist extremists and I'm glad they are gone. The problem is, as we've seen time and time again in the middle east, there's a good chance the next regime is just as bad.

The only disagreement is what this was called and I do not believe it was a coup because it was an ouster of the president at the request of the people, who are unarmed, and going against an armed and a dangerous minority. The army doesn't step in, and watch Egypt turn into Syria quickly.
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