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Old 07-15-2013, 01:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Can't trust a guy who drinks water.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Basically, the GOP has electioneered themselves into a corner and no one has been willing to take a risk to step out of it yet. It will happen eventually but it has certainly been a slow process. Until Republicans stop living in the 1980s they will have a rough go of it in general elections.

I think Paul Ryan could have been a great asset to the party if people believe he had intellectual integrity but he got picked apart after he was named VP.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDelonte13
McCain was the perfect moderate candidate until he actually ran if that makes sense. The GOP totally f*cked his campaign up and turned John McCain from independent leader to GOP lap dog.
This. McCain was a strong candidate until he started going back on many of his stances and until Palin happened.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
Basically, the GOP has electioneered themselves into a corner and no one has been willing to take a risk to step out of it yet. It will happen eventually but it has certainly been a slow process. Until Republicans stop living in the 1980s they will have a rough go of it in general elections.

I think Paul Ryan could have been a great asset to the party if people believe he had intellectual integrity but he got picked apart after he was named VP.

Do you mean he had intellectual integrity and people didn't believe it?
Or he didn't have intellectual integrity and people found that out?

Paul Ryan was a dumb pick. Romney ended up losing Wisconsin by 6 points. He could have picked Portman from Ohio. He lost Ohio by just about 2 points. Also Portman was someone who won a statewide election, not just a House district. Not only did it not work geographically, it also tied Romney to Ryan's budget which lacked intellectual integrity to say the least.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

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Originally Posted by OldSkoolball#52
I dunno, people in the bible belt are extremely passionate about abortion and same sex m'erige. If they perceive a candidate as willing to compromise on those, even a republican candidate, even one running against Barry, they will withhold support. For better or for worse, they aint playin on those topics.

Moderates dont donate to campaigns like zealots do. However they do typically swing the elections. So the funny thing is Republican candidates have to appeal to the zealots in order to get the funding to campaign in the moderate states. And most moderate republicans prioritize abortion and marriage far less than the vangies.

Vicious cycle, aye

Moderate Republicans used to be the strong financial wing of the party. The Wall Street crowd is not the anti-abortion crowd. The conventional wisdom has been the hard-core social conservatives provide the Republicans with the most dedicated campaign workers, not the money.

The Republicans have a very big structural problem and I don't see a figure who can overcome it. Christie is the only GOP figure that contends with a national audience, but how he is going to get through the primaries? He will be moving to the right for the next few years, but I don't see it happening.

In 2012 the popular vote went by almost 5 million votes to the Democrats.
65,899,660 to 60,932,152

This is with a very rough 4 year economic period and a black president who lost a couple percentage points to a generic Democrat in places like Appalachia. In four years, is the country going to be more socially conservative or less? I think it's less and this is a big problem for the GOP.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FillJackson
Do you mean he had intellectual integrity and people didn't believe it?
Or he didn't have intellectual integrity and people found that out?

Paul Ryan was a dumb pick. Romney ended up losing Wisconsin by 6 points. He could have picked Portman from Ohio. He lost Ohio by just about 2 points. Also Portman was someone who won a statewide election, not just a House district which usually means he appeals to a broader swath f voters. Not only did it not work geographically, the Ryan pick also tied Romney to Ryan's budget which lacked intellectual integrity to say the least.

I meant that he didn't and got exposed. I think someone with his ideas could have had a lot of genuine appeal but he wasn't able to stand up to close examination. The main component to his budget was basically hope and magic which got exposed big time once people actually took an interest in him.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Republicans care about pushing the political spectrum rightward more than winning elections.

Sure we have a dem President. But this dem president proposes chained CPI and other cuts to SS, cuts to welfare, cuts to medicaid, cuts to medicare. Supports the bush tax cuts for 98% of people. Wants to cut the corporate tax rate. Is pro coal. Is pro keystone pipeline. Gives Monsanto immunity from litigation. refuses to prosecute wall street exes for fraud. Has a stimulus package that is 75% tax cuts and so on.

They are losing elections and politics, but winning on policies. they have moved the goal posts so far rightward that even when the dems score it is on an issue that used to what the republicans wanted. Obamacare for example, was based on Romneycare which was thought up by the heritage foundation.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

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Originally Posted by Take Your Lumps
Shit, the guy they've been grooming for years still looks like he's in the middle of a hostage situation whenever he speaks in front of large crowds.

who is that? rubio?
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDelonte13
McCain was the perfect moderate candidate until he actually ran if that makes sense. The GOP totally f*cked his campaign up and turned John McCain from independent leader to GOP lap dog.

I agree with this. I actually liked McCain early on, but as soon as the campaign started he started nosediving into the typical GOP bullshit.
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Republicans care about pushing the political spectrum rightward more than winning elections.

Sure we have a dem President. But this dem president proposes chained CPI and other cuts to SS, cuts to welfare, cuts to medicaid, cuts to medicare. Supports the bush tax cuts for 98% of people. Wants to cut the corporate tax rate. Is pro coal. Is pro keystone pipeline. Gives Monsanto immunity from litigation. refuses to prosecute wall street exes for fraud. Has a stimulus package that is 75% tax cuts and so on.

They are losing elections and politics, but winning on policies. they have moved the goal posts so far rightward that even when the dems score it is on an issue that used to what the republicans wanted. Obamacare for example, was based on Romneycare which was thought up by the heritage foundation.



Its a funny thing, how similar Bush and Obamas terms have been. Yet Dems hated Bush and support Obama, Republicans supported Bush and hate Obama.

Shows you the real nature of modern politics. People take sides and argue for sport, the actual merit of policies are an afterthought. Hey, if were all gonna agree on stuff, whats the fun in that? I wanna do a touchdown dance when my party takes an election!

However as far as Romneycare vs Obamacare, the smaller a breaucracy is, the more efficient and adaptable it typically is. Each state SHOULD devise its OWN healthcare plan. Its a terrible idea to federalise healthcare in a country as expansive and diverse as the US. Plain and simple it would work better at the state level, and the only reason its being federalized is because nowadays with cable news, people pay more attention to national issues than local ones (which they shouldnt but they do) and Democrats are seizing an opportunity to make Republicans look bad by opposing a program that sprinkles magic healthcare dust all across the US weeeeee! Its actually a terrible program on such a large scale. It was not designed for such a scale.

Last edited by OldSkoolball#52 : 07-16-2013 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:01 AM   #26
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

I just don't get US politics, it seems like whoever has the richest backers and whoever panders to the religious sector seems to win

Am I being to general in this assumption
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

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Originally Posted by Big_Dogg
I just don't get US politics, it seems like whoever has the richest backers and whoever panders to the religious sector seems to win

Am I being to general in this assumption

There is a statistic that 94 percent of the time the candidate with more money wins.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
There is a statistic that 94 percent of the time the candidate with more money wins.

So that kind of removes the average American's chances and aspirations of ever becoming president, would that be a fair assumption?
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:52 AM   #29
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Republicans care about pushing the political spectrum rightward more than winning elections.

Sure we have a dem President. But this dem president proposes chained CPI and other cuts to SS, cuts to welfare, cuts to medicaid, cuts to medicare. Supports the bush tax cuts for 98% of people. Wants to cut the corporate tax rate. Is pro coal. Is pro keystone pipeline. Gives Monsanto immunity from litigation. refuses to prosecute wall street exes for fraud. Has a stimulus package that is 75% tax cuts and so on.

They are losing elections and politics, but winning on policies. they have moved the goal posts so far rightward that even when the dems score it is on an issue that used to what the republicans wanted. Obamacare for example, was based on Romneycare which was thought up by the heritage foundation.

The whole "Left/Right" political paradigm is completely nonsensical.
"Far Left" = Socialism
"Far Right" = Nationalism
Nationalism + Socialism = Nazism
Nazism doesn't + Centrism.

I prefer to think of the current trend as being towards authoritarianism.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Will the GOP commit the same mistake three presidential election cycles in a row?

It's definitely true that once someone becomes a serious presidential candidate they tend to stick with their party more if they don't on almost every issue already, and it's unfortunate because you end up voting for the party more than the actual candidate. It's probably a big reason why so many are fed up with modern politics. McCain is a good example. We saw it with Romney as well. As soon as he became a serious candidate he reversed his stance on abortion, which is obviously not a coincidence. Personally, I didn't care much about that because while I believe abortion should be legal, I don't think about it much, though that's obviously not the point. Just an example of regardless of an individual's stance during their career, more often than not, the stance will change for a presidential election if it goes against their party.
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