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Old 07-18-2013, 09:09 PM   #31
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

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Originally Posted by GOBB
Granted he could save some money by cutting back his smoking habit. But how long do you think he maintain living off $8.25 before he jumps off the nearest bridge, jumps onto train tracks or cut his wheel into on coming traffic?



Lol, it won't be too long now.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:31 PM   #32
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs

if you're forced to stretch yourself thin just to meet basic survival needs, you aren't developing, growing as a person, learning new skills, taking pride in your work, creating.
Thats how 95% of the people on this planet live though.. just doing enough to survive. Thats how 100% of the animal kingdom lives.. just to survive. Were the lucky one percent of all life that gets to go outside those boundaries.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:47 PM   #33
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

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Originally Posted by Nanners
i see that gasoline and food are completely absent from this budget
Electric car + working at McDonalds means you don't need gasoline and food money!
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs

blaze summed it up nicely. of course you can survive on america's pitiful minimum wage. you can also survive without any income at all. and none of us could survive if we were tossed back into the stone age. none of that comes close to the point.

if you're forced to stretch yourself thin just to meet basic survival needs, you aren't developing, growing as a person, learning new skills, taking pride in your work, creating. you're just a worn out desperate consuming machine. you're essentially dehumanized and as a result, you're likely never to do anything worth shit.

now a $3 raise in the minimum wage wouldn't change that state of affairs. people are still renting out their time to survive. but it makes it easier and, just speaking in terms of probability, fewer people fall through the cracks (which takes weight off the social safety net). it's also just smart economic policy as a stimulant to demand. the short term repercussions might be hard to swallow, layoffs and such, but there are measures that can be taken to mitigate the cons and enhance the pros. they should be pursued for, in my mind anyway, pretty fking obvious like staring everybody in the face type reasons.


Wait a minute, why does the government have to automatically give people a raise? You realize you can EARN raises at every job, correct? You realize people often negotiate their pay when they take a job, based on the skills they have? Why should the government step in and take away work place performance incentive? You realize when things like that happen, there's less money for raises and promotions for the people who've earned it. Not to mention prices go up for the consumer. All so that you can feel happy you're padding the pockets of EVERYONE (in other words, pre-emptively taking from those destined to earn it, and giving it over to those who are just cruising and dont even care)

It is not the fault of traditional Americans that more people are shitting out illegitimate kids who statistically are far less likely to develop the adjustment, skills, habits, values etc. to attain productive careers. Liberals all wanna shit on Christians for promoting "antiquated family values" and look what it's gotten America. Maybe if instead of patting yourself on the back everytime you spend three hours on the internet showing off to everyone how you've figured out the bible isn't historically accurate, you could understand that it is VERY IMPORTANT that people take care of their children, and you'd realize that teen pregnancy, child neglect, absentee fathers etc. are having a major impact on the ECONOMY, which you only seem to want to blame big corporate America for. You don't have the stomache to address those issues becuase they largely center on minorities. Uh oh! Someone might play the race card! Run and hide, you scared little f@ggot. Becuase you are a coward. You can only blame the theoretical "man" or the "coprorations" the "system" etc., you DONT HAVE THE TESTICLES to turn to Bill or Sharon or Tyquan or Ramon or Sharqiua and say, "hi, excuse me, but you're doing it wrong"


Once again, why is it that people like you, and other people in this thread ONLY complain about the system, and NEVER about individual habits? I mean never ever. You are a complete enabler, a total apologist, one giant mommy-complex babysitter.

Time to push "your kids" (i.e. the world you feel responsible for feeding with other peoples money with your arm-chair robin hood ideology) out into the water and letting the ones who've prepared go ahead and swim. Stop being such a f@ggot, woman.

Last edited by OldSkoolball#52 : 07-18-2013 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Funny thing about the fringe loony tunes is that they're all so proud of themselves for being atheist. Personally I am agnostic, but I don't need to use it or argue about it in order to feel intellectually superior. I can do that with my arguments. The average talking-point sheep on the far left has to use it in his arsenal of "hey look at me, i'm with the smart crowd!"

But the funny thing is, these far left cartoon characters are constantly championing evolution, darwin, "natural selection", they even use things like genetic variance when talking about homosexuals (which is true), but the funny thing is they never have the guts to allow even a shred of it in society to make things smoother. They always have to stop rush hour traffic in order to let a caterpillar cross the road. But why? They don't believe in a definitive moral code. If you believe in the big bang and human creation from elements made in supernovae, then there is no objective right or wrong. What's with all the "WE HAVE TO RAISE MINIMUM WAGE, THE PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING!!!!!!!" If I talk about Jesus teaching this or that, you pelt me with copies of Origin of Species and claim I'm irrational hypocrite.

You don't seem to realize that the left is JUST as hypocritical if not more so than the far right. Let's say every person in America needed x to survive, and we agreed to make sure everyone had it no matter their circumstance. Now let's say someone is born who needs x,y, and z. Ok, ok, it costs a lot of our budget, but we're the party of nice guys, we're gonna do it. Now let's say hypothetically the equivalent of a resource black hole is born, just by chance, a little baby who needs so much medical care it requires the entire national GDP. Do you do it? Of course YOU do, becuase you're an idealistic f@g who gets off feeling self righteous with other peoples money. You don't have any fortitude. You can't dig your feet in for a principle, becuase you don't hvae any logical ones. The left wing mantra is "keep saying yes, no matter what!" It's not one that can be followed through logical excercises to feasible endings. But yet, they love it, because it makes them FEEL moral, and that's all they want. Something to feel like they excel it, moral superiority. Even though their actual "principles" shift with the wind and reflect only a desperate desire to feel like the nicest guy in the room, not any sort of actual sound basis of reason.




edit: and by the way, I am NOT suggesting a complete dog eat dog society. But with social assistance SHOULD come the expectation of social responsibility. And the left doesn't want that. They want the handouts, so they can brag about how smart and progressive they are for sitting at their computer chair and saying this person should have some of that persons money, but once again they DO NOT HAVE THE MALE ORGANS that give you the confidence to then turn to the recipient and say "now look, you better live up to a specific standard if you're depending on this assistance". If you force people to do that, eventually most of them will get off the assistance. Liberals don't want that. The politicians don't want that because there goes their voting base. The sheep that make up the base don't want that because there goes their entire identity as being the voice for the powerless, if nobody is powerless then what are you left with? A bunch of smelly liberal losers whose entire identity centered around the moral superiority of arbitrating redistribution. If everyone else excels, they're pretty much left at the bottom, with no other pillars of personality to stand on. Most of these kids who run to the far left are basically just looking for an image, because they have no confidence or sense of their individual self.

Last edited by OldSkoolball#52 : 07-18-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:19 PM   #36
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

this is starface yea?


Quote:
You realize you can EARN raises at every job, correct? You realize people often negotiate their pay when they take a job, based on the skills they have? Why should the government step in and take away work place performance incentive?
you're conflating different things you bonehead. all over the map. raising minimum wage by a couple of bucks (and in turn improving the lives of MILLIONS) all of a sudden washes away any remnants of meritocracy? you live in a fantasy world. that wouldn't happen.

and no, you can't "earn raises at every job". in fact the vast majority of minimum wage jobs raise wages purely based on longevity. and the raises are totally measly, shit like 15 cents every six months. so in order for a minimum wage earner to have the same purchasing power as his equivalent from the 1970s, he'd have to work the same job for 5-10 years. that's retarded.

Quote:
Liberals all wanna shit on Christians for promoting "antiquated family values" and look what it's gotten America. Maybe if instead of patting yourself on the back everytime you spend three hours on the internet showing off to everyone how you've figured out the bible isn't historically accurate, you could understand that it is VERY IMPORTANT that people take care of their children, and you'd realize that teen pregnancy, child neglect, absentee fathers etc. are having a major impact on the ECONOMY
you're so divorced from reality its insane and really quite sad for a guy that obviously has some capacity to contemplate this shit. pay attention to what's going on in your country. about half a dozen states are passing legislation to raise standards for abortion clinics to absurd levels, essentially forcing them to close. abortion is trickly on a moral level admittedly. but on a pragmatic level, you wanna talk about popping out kids with no support system at the same time as christian values? the pretense to justify those bills ARE christian values. agree with them or not, the inevitable effect is a surplus of newborns born to parents that can't support them.

Quote:
Now let's say hypothetically the equivalent of a resource black hole is born, just by chance, a little baby who needs so much medical care it requires the entire national GDP. Do you do it? Of course YOU do, becuase you're an idealistic f@g who gets off feeling self righteous with other peoples money.
again, totally divorced from reality. its like you're living on another planet. your only avenue is an absurd hypothetical to hammer home yet another redundancy.

respond to my point. wealth is more concentrated today than it ever has been since the birth of either of our countries. minimum wage in the richest country in the world hasn't even kept up with inflation. forget ideology.... i take it you have no problem with that?



Quote:
You can only blame the theoretical "man" or the "coprorations" the "system" etc., you DONT HAVE THE TESTICLES to turn to Bill or Sharon or Tyquan or Ramon or Sharqiua and say, "hi, excuse me, but you're doing it wrong"

Once again, why is it that people like you, and other people in this thread ONLY complain about the system, and NEVER about individual habits? I mean never ever. You are a complete enabler, a total apologist, one giant mommy-complex babysitter.
this is an interesting point until you take about 15 seconds to think it through. then you realize it's unsubstantiated rhetoric with no basis. what can i do about bill and sharon and ramon? go around, tap them on the shoulder, and tell them they suck? loads of people suck. loads of people fail. and if you've ever spent an authentic minute trying to understand another human being, you'd know full well that strangers walking up to them and shouting "YOU ARENT DOING IT RIGHT" does nothing. in fact it makes the situation worse.

its someone's support system that, besides their own character and will power, is most responsible for their well being. that's why if i have a friend who's i dunno addicted to something or popping out one kid after another or leaching off their parents, depending on the relationship i hve with them, i'll give them the blunt truth and tell them they have to own their problems and quit blaming everything else.... because IM their support system. thats in spite of the fact that there ARE other factors outside their control influencing their life. but it doesn't matter, when it comes to changing, the onus is on the individual because thats the only way anything happens. a support system enables (i know you think thats a bad word but it really isnt) that change. i've talked about this with you before, people dont just change in a vacuum with the flick of a light switch. for 99% of people, it takes a lot more than determination and discipline.

but that's personal life. in a classroom or at a public hearing or on a messageboard, it's totally a useless waste of time to bitch and moan about empty stereotypes you've never met. it's actually useful to pay attention to the system in which people live and criticize it for its shortcomings.... because as a citizen and a political agent, i'm actually responsible for that system in some small way. and you can support shit in all sorts of other ways, voting with your wallet by supporting local business, social enterprise... supporting important initiatives in civil society that are attempting to influence both public and private sectors. etc

and all of that has a profound holistic effect on the very support systems necessary to promote changes to individual lifestyles. you're skipping all the important steps and just yelling at people. i have no idea why, you've never come across as that short sighted, and yet here you are. transfixed with the contrarian position that people are too "understanding" and "tolerant". wtf does that accomplish?

shit. all. you wanna talk about MY moral superiority? gimme a break dude

Last edited by RidonKs : 07-18-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Lithuania has very high suicide rate.our minimum wage is crazy low and a lot of people live by it. Go figure.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:11 AM   #38
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

people are forgetting that the world is not black and white. Do you think every person working minimum wage to survive in this economy is some loser who dropped out of high school and never got an education?

A lot of people get forced into shitty situations and forced into that kind of existence. I've known smart people who have bad things out of their control happen and have been forced to take jobs like this just to survive and provide some support for their families. In Australia we aren't losing jobs like you guys are but from what I understand quite a few people go to college now and still can't find any work that even uses their qualifications. Some don't want to work but no matter what you do they won't change and will keep bumming by but that isn't all those people.

How can people say oh if you have bad wages live with your family or move in with your partner if you have a kid? In a lot of situations people do not have families or are single parents. Just because you live in a nice neighbourhood with a nice job you assume people living is shitty areas with shitty jobs are there because it's their own fault? In some cases it just comes down to luck that you didn't end up like that either.

I knew a girl who's family kicked her out when she was 16 and she had nothing and had to leave school just to take a job to survive, is it her fault she now has no qualifications and is stuck working crappy jobs until she finds a guy who can support her?

Should a country be paying people with no skills more? Maybe not but they should be doing something to help educate and improve their existence.

Some people shouldn't be having kids, your right, but is it the kids fault that their born into that situation with no alternatives?

Oldskoolball your posts sound like their coming from someone who is very closed minded and hasn't really seen enough of the world to comment. There's no black and white answers to topics like these.

Last edited by outbreak : 07-19-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:38 AM   #39
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
I'm not for roommates unless its temporary. I need space. Privacy. Also you cant save that much living off $7.70 an hour. It'll take a long time before you have enough to move and upgrade. I just dont see how people do it honestly. It can be done but you really cant enjoy life outside of scratching and clawing to survive. You're one bad financial situation from being screwed. Something as simple as an apartment fire could really f*ck you in the ass. Check this poster out...


Granted he could save some money by cutting back his smoking habit. But how long do you think he maintain living off $8.25 before he jumps off the nearest bridge, jumps onto train tracks or cut his wheel into on coming traffic?


You must be of a particularly soft composition if you'd end your life for having to live with a room-mate or for not making enough money.

Aren't you a USPS worker too? Damn son, I think we all know how this ends. Just make sure that if you're gonna kill yourself do it outside.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:03 AM   #40
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
you're conflating different things you bonehead. all over the map. raising inimum wage by a couple of bucks (and in turn improving the lives of MILLIONS) all of a sudden washes away any remnants of meritocracy? you live in a fantasy world. that wouldn't happen.

and no, you can't "earn raises at every job". in fact the vast majority of minimum wage jobs raise wages purely based on longevity. and the raises are totally measly, shit like 15 cents every six months. so in order for a minimum wage earner to have the same purchasing power as his equivalent from the 1970s, he'd have to work the same job for 5-10 years. that's retarded.

You're a smart guy Ridonks, so why don't you understand that raising the minimum wage would necessarily result in much higher unemployment.
Raising the minimum wage, against steady; budgets, profit margins and profit motives would only result in firings, because the company that is paying the workers still needs to find a way to satisfy their board of directors and personal greed.

Not to mention the most adversely affected would be racial minorities, the poor and the uneducated.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:06 AM   #41
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

that's terrible
I live in country where it's not even legal to treat people like this

I have to pay my little sister $20 per hour to clean my apartment
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:12 AM   #42
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
that's terrible
I live in country where it's not even legal to treat people like this

I have to pay my little sister $20 per hour to clean my apartment

Let's be roommates
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
You're a smart guy Ridonks, so why don't you understand that raising the minimum wage would necessarily result in much higher unemployment.
Raising the minimum wage, against steady; budgets, profit margins and profit motives would only result in firings, because the company that is paying the workers still needs to find a way to satisfy their board of directors and personal greed.

Not to mention the most adversely affected would be racial minorities, the poor and the uneducated.

it's not that easy. you can't just get rid of those people because you need the dirty work to be done. companies will find a way to save the money another way trust me.

but obviously you don't want the minimum wage too high because you don't want to encourage laziness...

I just feel like working one job HAS TO be enough...
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:49 AM   #44
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
it's not that easy. you can't just get rid of those people because you need the dirty work to be done. companies will find a way to save the money another way trust me.

but obviously you don't want the minimum wage too high because you don't want to encourage laziness...

I just feel like working one job HAS TO be enough...

Depends on what that job is...

Being a dog-walker or baby-sitter shouldn't earn many people enough to live on.

The main problem I have with minimum wage is that it discourages service jobs that aren't absolutely necessary, but are still nice, like gas pump attendants, cinema ushers etc. These are a great way for people who are too old/young to work 40/hr weeks to subsidise their income, but it is absolutely not worth $8.00hr you are forced to pay them, so these jobs are made redundant.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:54 AM   #45
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Default Re: Advice: how to live on $7.70/hour

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
Depends on what that job is...

Being a dog-walker or baby-sitter shouldn't earn many people enough to live on.

The main problem I have with minimum wage is that it discourages service jobs that aren't absolutely necessary, but are still nice, like gas pump attendants, cinema ushers etc. These are a great way for people who are too old/young to work 40/hr weeks to subsidise their income, but it is absolutely not worth $8.00hr you are forced to pay them, so these jobs are made redundant.

good point!
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