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Old 05-19-2014, 01:48 PM   #1
franchize
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Default ...and then what?

Obviously there is varying views on what we should do in free agency. We can all agree to disagree. My question to everyone who's promoting this "blow it up" idea (which we did a few years ago btw): ...and the what?

Ok so we blow it up. Then what? We have picks in every OTHER year, this year which is considered a deep draft, not being one of them. LeBron James, Kevin Durant etc will presumably be unavailable. So what's the plan? Just blow it up? And then what?

All I've heard is we should go after Kevin Love or Lamarcus Aldridge.

1. Remind me how many rings, finals appearance, conference finals etc they've been a part of.

2. Remind me why they should come here. For example, what's the pitch to say Kevin Love?

Come to the where you'll do just as much losing but 10x the criticism from fans and media. You'll pay higher taxes and the cost of living is through the roof, but hey...it's New York and we have Phil Jackson! No, he's not coaching. He's actually in a position to which he has no experience...but it's still Phil.

The "people will come here because of Phil" argument is already 0-1.
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Sales pitch?

Committed Owner (yeah you are all worried about his past decisions, but do any of those decisions lead you to believe Dolan won't commit every dollar possible to win?).


Phil. Here is what Phil and his position do- makes the financially committed owner more of a positive by taking some of the personal judgments away from the owner.


The Triangle. Not only do the Knicks best 3 players fit this offense perfectly at the 3, 2, and 5- Kevin love fits perfectly in that offense.



Carmelo. So you don't like him. Every player that's ever played with him does and wants to play with him. Ever heard of a guy that didn't like playing w Carmelo.



Now as far as the city and the endorsements that go with it- isn't that what so many of you believe so much in?



Sure it prob won't get to the point where love could force his way over. But if he could it's worth chandler, shumpert, hardaway jr, and a 1st. Remember when you thought Dragic wasn't worth chandler and shumpert? Or when you thought we just need to see another year of amare before making a move.
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Obviously there is varying views on what we should do in free agency. We can all agree to disagree. My question to everyone who's promoting this "blow it up" idea (which we did a few years ago btw): ...and the what?

Ok so we blow it up. Then what? We have picks in every OTHER year, this year which is considered a deep draft, not being one of them. LeBron James, Kevin Durant etc will presumably be unavailable. So what's the plan? Just blow it up? And then what?

The Knicks have a pick in 2015, the every other year doesnt hold water after that...the only picks they DONT have were included in the Melo trade. interesting how you fault the Knicks for that when the player acquired cost us both the picks we wont have....they dealt those picks for him.

Cant cry about the picks now...you have the player.....if he stays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
All I've heard is we should go after Kevin Love or Lamarcus Aldridge.

1. Remind me how many rings, finals appearance, conference finals etc they've been a part of.

This makes no sense, unless you're endorsing why we should let Melo walk as he hasnt experienced even a third of these things either.

No rings, no finals appearances...one conference final...first round k-o's and in his contract year a non playoff season.

The hope is for a man who's done nothing but win in this league to build a winning team in NY.

I certainly trust that over the silly putty rosters the team has had over the years....certainly cant get worse...we just sucked hard with a supposed top player in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
2. Remind me why they should come here. For example, what's the pitch to say Kevin Love?

Thats for Phil to pitch, we're just fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Come to the where you'll do just as much losing but 10x the criticism from fans and media. You'll pay higher taxes and the cost of living is through the roof, but hey...it's New York and we have Phil Jackson! No, he's not coaching. He's actually in a position to which he has no experience...but it's still Phil.

The "people will come here because of Phil" argument is already 0-1.

Players will come they always have. Star players normally dont come because overall the Knicks have been garbage. They've been in existence since the 40's and only have two rings to show for it and those came over 40 years ago.

Blaming the fans and media is a bull shit cop out.

The Knicks dont rebuild, dont draft for the future, dont develop players, and the only way they can attract players is to over pay.

The cost of living is garbage as well...why dont the Lakers have issues getting players?

Same high cost of living there and the pressure to win is greater there as thats what they are used to.

Because they historically build to win.

16 titles>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2.

I like that Phil has a vision, and I'm actually amazed that folks dismiss the fact he has one and has shown he can win.

He's the president, he isnt the scouts..they will be the ones to present players that fit what Phil visions which is why all reports have him reforming alot of guys whom he;s worked with.

As far as Kerr goes I'm actually in the belief that Phil stood his ground something Dolan and the Knicks brass NEVER have done in the past.

Thats 1 for Phil....actually 2-0 for Phil considering this dude who serves no purpose is away from the Knicks bench......



Utterly a shame every coach HAD to keep this dude on their bench.
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Old 05-21-2014, 10:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Sorry...no plan detected.

As usual, you're quite skilled at trying to tear everyone else's ideas down but have no opinion of your own. The very purpose of this thread was to hear an alternative perspective. Not to get into another argument about how you feel about Carmelo Anthony. We get it. You think he's garbage. I'm not even referring to him. In fact, this entire thread is about what should happen if we DON'T get bring him back. I don't agree with El Gringos often at all but at least he formulates an opinion. I thought that was the purpose of having discussions and a sports site. If you're just going to sit back and "wait and see"...so be it. But calling anything I say "a bullshit cop out" when your only solution is "Phil has a plan" is a bit hypocritical...don't ya think?

Quote:
Carmelo. So you don't like him.

Not sure where you got this idea from Gringos. I've probably supported Melo on this forum more than anyone else.
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Sorry...no plan detected.

As usual, you're quite skilled at trying to tear everyone else's ideas down but have no opinion of your own. The very purpose of this thread was to hear an alternative perspective. Not to get into another argument about how you feel about Carmelo Anthony. We get it. You think he's garbage. I'm not even referring to him. In fact, this entire thread is about what should happen if we DON'T get bring him back. I don't agree with El Gringos often at all but at least he formulates an opinion. I thought that was the purpose of having discussions and a sports site. If you're just going to sit back and "wait and see"...so be it. But calling anything I say "a bullshit cop out" when your only solution is "Phil has a plan" is a bit hypocritical...don't ya think?



Not sure where you got this idea from Gringos. I've probably supported Melo on this forum more than anyone else.
I should have clarified that "you don't like Carmelo" wasn't to you just in general to this boards feelings.





I also would love to see more personal opinion here. Most here will not come up w any ideas, won't say who the Knicks should go after and how to get them. So we can go through the offseason without discussion until it's over and then critique it then? What is there to worry about? Looking bad to people you'll never in your life meet?
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
I should have clarified that "you don't like Carmelo" wasn't to you just in general to this boards feelings.





I also would love to see more personal opinion here. Most here will not come up w any ideas, won't say who the Knicks should go after and how to get them. So we can go through the offseason without discussion until it's over and then critique it then? What is there to worry about? Looking bad to people you'll never in your life meet?

THIS!

Look, I could care less whether someone agrees with me or not. I'm more than comfortable admitting I'm wrong. Sometimes being wrong means you're getting useful information and growing. But if you never offer your own opinion, of course you'll never be wrong. Reacting to stuff after the fact, in my opinion, isn't what makes sports talk fun. That's just news. It's just weird because this board used to be FULL of varying opinion. Clutch, Bano, Jasi, Rameek, KO etc...everyone had something to say. Now it's 1 or 2 guys saying ideas and being told why their ideas are dumb. OK...so what's your alternative?

Last edited by franchize : 05-21-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: ...and then what?

The and then what is find a coach...

I dont even think about what the Knicks can add in another season...

Top concern for me is a good coach and who on the staff can get players to work on their game during the offseason.

I guess addition by subtraction would be ideal.... Can the Knicks subtract Bargs, Amare, Chandler, Felton, JR, and if he opts out Melo?

Hard to be pro active with the Knicks this point forward because most moves should come from a more intelligent and measured basis and not random desperate moves.

The Knicks took on a GARBAGE player like Bargs... That should have gotten the whole Front Office Fired.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Sorry...no plan detected.

As usual, you're quite skilled at trying to tear everyone else's ideas down but have no opinion of your own. The very purpose of this thread was to hear an alternative perspective. Not to get into another argument about how you feel about Carmelo Anthony. We get it. You think he's garbage. I'm not even referring to him. In fact, this entire thread is about what should happen if we DON'T get bring him back. I don't agree with El Gringos often at all but at least he formulates an opinion. I thought that was the purpose of having discussions and a sports site. If you're just going to sit back and "wait and see"...so be it. But calling anything I say "a bullshit cop out" when your only solution is "Phil has a plan" is a bit hypocritical...don't ya think?



Not sure where you got this idea from Gringos. I've probably supported Melo on this forum more than anyone else.

The funny part is there are no ideas in your post either...just criticisms.

Yes I do want the team blown up, I've stated that all year, i knew this team was garbage well before the final record was decided. There isnt a single player that i really want back....not a single one.

The team itself needs a complete purge from it's losing ways, mentalities and selfishness.

And there's only one way to do it, and yes the team will stink, but hey....they stink now.

Of course i will take a wait and see approach, there's a new person in charge and I would like to see the moves THEY make before I, as a fan, who can do anything about it begin to critique.

It's more rational to see what happens some what then to dismiss it altogether before the offseason has even begun.

here's my ideas.....

Other than a complete purge I have similar views as last year.....

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=300497&page=3
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: ...and then what?

I will say this. Kevin Love gets a terrible rep although he has improved his game individually yearly. It is not his fault that he plays with absolute scrubs. At least this year Pekovic stepped up and became a dependable partner.
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I will say this. Kevin Love gets a terrible rep although he has improved his game individually yearly. It is not his fault that he plays with absolute scrubs. At least this year Pekovic stepped up and became a dependable partner.
Yeah it's definitely different than a Carmelo situation who plays with studs like chandler and shumpert. There's no excuse for that bum Carmelo
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
Yeah it's definitely different than a Carmelo situation who plays with studs like chandler and shumpert. There's no excuse for that bum Carmelo
Its not the same. Love plays with 1 legit player out of 15. As a whole the Knicks roster is better than Minny's.
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Old 05-23-2014, 02:39 AM   #12
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Its not the same. Love plays with 1 legit player out of 15. As a whole the Knicks roster is better than Minny's.

Are you sure you are taking into account the effect the nba's worst PG group and head coach had?


I was being sarcastic but I worried that you really are thinking about shumpert and chandler when you said that. Prob think hard away jr is up there too?
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
Are you sure you are taking into account the effect the nba's worst PG group and head coach had?


I was being sarcastic but I worried that you really are thinking about shumpert and chandler when you said that. Prob think hard away jr is up there too?
I didn't address individuals I addressed roster.
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Old 05-24-2014, 12:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I didn't address individuals I addressed roster.
????? You've lost me there. The way I see it is that when rating the roster you really need to talk about the individual. Why not give it a shot. Rank the best 8 players on the Knicks
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Old 05-24-2014, 01:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: ...and then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
????? You've lost me there. The way I see it is that when rating the roster you really need to talk about the individual. Why not give it a shot. Rank the best 8 players on the Knicks
Irrelevant. The quality of the roster is provided by the record of the team.
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