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Old 02-20-2007, 05:56 PM   #1
Heilige
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Default OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

In American politics, the Left and the Right are continuously at odds on many social issues regarding how to help the public and to what degree the public should be helped.

In my personal experience, the conservatives are generally less sympathetic and empathetic in regards to helping others, including the lower class. The general argument of the conservatives is that America provides free public education through grade 12, and in most areas affordable college education is avalible from anyone who can pay, and therfore anyone who is living in poverty is responsible for their own poverty BECAUSE the facilities to improve the quality of life is there for the taking.

The liberals, on the other hand, bring up other interesting and equally valid points. Research illustrates a strange concept: people who are born into poverty usually stay in poverty because:

1) They cannot afford to quit working to leave for school, because doing so would mean the inability to buy food or pay for tuition.

2) The mind set of many who are in poverty is one where they find it to be impossible to move up the social latter, or they do not consider enrolling in higher education and improving as a viable option. The reasoning for this mindset is still somewhat unknown, but some attribute this fact to the idea that the poor are looked down upon as inferior beings.

3) The poor are institutionalized into a life where saving, schooling, and generally "improving" (the conventional definition) have a very small roll.

4) Some jobs that do require higher education, such as teaching at public schools, simply do not provide enough money for people to at or above the poverty line ("The Working Poor").

The idea of the poor being responsible for their own poverty presents a convinent argument for conservatives, and the idea that the poor and not responsible for their poverty presents a convinent argument for liberals. This begs the question:

Are the poor responsible for their own poverty?
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

You're going to have to add a basketball reference in there to keep this in the basketball forum... Mentions Sprewell or something. Everyone knows he has trouble feeding his kids.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilige
In American politics, the Left and the Right are continuously at odds on many social issues regarding how to help the public and to what degree the public should be helped.

In my personal experience, the conservatives are generally less sympathetic and empathetic in regards to helping others, including the lower class. The general argument of the conservatives is that America provides free public education through grade 12, and in most areas affordable college education is avalible from anyone who can pay, and therfore anyone who is living in poverty is responsible for their own poverty BECAUSE the facilities to improve the quality of life is there for the taking.

The liberals, on the other hand, bring up other interesting and equally valid points. Research illustrates a strange concept: people who are born into poverty usually stay in poverty because:

1) They cannot afford to quit working to leave for school, because doing so would mean the inability to buy food or pay for tuition.

2) The mind set of many who are in poverty is one where they find it to be impossible to move up the social latter, or they do not consider enrolling in higher education and improving as a viable option. The reasoning for this mindset is still somewhat unknown, but some attribute this fact to the idea that the poor are looked down upon as inferior beings.

3) The poor are institutionalized into a life where saving, schooling, and generally "improving" (the conventional definition) have a very small roll.

4) Some jobs that do require higher education, such as teaching at public schools, simply do not provide enough money for people to at or above the poverty line ("The Working Poor").

The idea of the poor being responsible for their own poverty presents a convinent argument for conservatives, and the idea that the poor and not responsible for their poverty presents a convinent argument for liberals. This begs the question:

Are the poor responsible for their own poverty?
politicians can talk rhetoric all they want and it doesnt do a lick of good. Any oerson who studies poverty (here or in the developing world) will tell you that it is a very hard trend to buck. Poor people do hav eless advantages and are less likely to succeed in removing themselves from poverty. The idea of the American dream self made man is a statistical improbability and is really just a rhetorical myth. SOme of the hardest workers I know struggle below the poverty line because they have never had the opportunity to establish the skill sets needed to get out of the cycle.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Poor people are lazy and rely on other people to help them.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

i don't care where you're from. anyone should be able to finish high school amids all the violence or drugs that may surround you, quality of education, or family income. all this blame white america is bull and if you grew up in that situation, you need to overachieve, rise above the madness and do things without pointing fingers. get off your ass and quit beggin! (and i'm not white)
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat4Ever
Poor people are lazy and rely on other people to help them.

give examples or something or else your argument is meaningless.

Kids just dont value education as much as they should. They are undisciplined children which may be a result of our government, too many rights.

You know legislators in Texas make below the poverty line? They make 7,200 dollars a year and so they must get a part time job in a company that pays them to pass their bills or laws that favor his/her company.

The texas government sux and a reason why education blows as well.
The only way is to have some powerful man or woman go in there and give a powerful speech in middle school about how important and education is and how to get the things you want you must be educated. show statistics and people who are in poverty that didnt go to college and do good in high school.

But tuition is very expensive as well but there is always community college you can go to and save up money for college. Tuition at A&M and UT 10 years ago was less than 10,000 dollars and now that the state doesnt pay them crap it has shot up. Freaking BS
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Old 02-20-2007, 07:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

I am a middle-class student and I definitely see how I have it better off than kids from less affluent families. I have a part-time job and earn a decent amount of money, but I'm fortunate in that I can bank or invest a large proportion of it. A lot of kids have to spend on groceries and rent.

So no, the poor are not responsible for their own poverty.
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Old 02-20-2007, 07:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamtheWalrus
if you can walk, have two hands, you can work. you shouldn't be leeching like vietnameses.

vietnamese are hardworking
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

a trap people often fall in is that once they get outta high school or close to graduation they find a job that pays say $16 an hour. Guy thinks to himself, damn that's a lot of money. What do I need to go to college for? And for a single person living in poverty, that actually does seem a lot. The problem is that the ceiling for earning potential is much lower, but they don't realize that. Once the family comes in the picture all that extra cash evaporates.

For those of us who were fortunate enough to be born in well-to-do family's we have a better idea of exactly what our earning potentials can be. The difference between what seems like a lot of money and what is a lot of money is clearer. Parents also typically keep us focused on the big picture, college even if we aren't interested ourselves, we have a better idea of what's out there.

Its a clear cut case of one side having more advantage than the other imo. Its not impossible to overcome the disadvantage, but it's not easy regardless.
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Tuition at my community college is approx 1,000 per 12 hours including books.

Public universities in Texas cost around 4,000 per semester not including books

But, yes the poor are responsible for being that way, of course there are always exceptions. If you're willing to put in the work and attend college, it will pay off.

I come from a middle-class family, my parents combined income is about 95-100k.

Last edited by Howard5Dirk41 : 02-20-2007 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard5Dirk41
Tuition at my community college is approx 1,000 per 12 hours including books.

Public universities in Texas cost around 4,000 per semester not including books

ok...how does that contribute?
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

is that better...?

Last edited by Howard5Dirk41 : 02-20-2007 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

lets put it this way... nobody strives to be poor..

you could say the poor are responsible for their own poverty.....but dont fool yourself into thinking they are simply too lazy to put any work in....

People like to blame the poor for their situation but the people who do this are simply rationalizing their own guilt over the neglect of these people...

think if you had 1 parent who was on crack, or in jail...maybe your one parent got sick and died and you have no one else to look after you

Some of these people have serious mental problems and no support whatsoever

life is hard and you need the tools to play and the 'know how' to win.. Alot of these people simply dont have either... they really dont have a snowball's chance in hell....

I was at lunch the other day, walking by the Gallery and I saw a homeless woman sitting on the cement crying because she knew that she was gonna die soon and nobody cared....I felt soo terrible, I didnt know what to do..

Everytime I see a homeless person, I thank God I had support when I was young and I pray it remains that way....
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilige
In my personal experience, the conservatives are generally less sympathetic and empathetic in regards to helping others, including the lower class. The general argument of the conservatives is that America provides free public education through grade 12, and in most areas affordable college education is avalible from anyone who can pay, and therfore anyone who is living in poverty is responsible for their own poverty BECAUSE the facilities to improve the quality of life is there for the taking.
Anyone who spits out that particular argument is blowing an awful lot of smoke. Yes, the US provides free public education through grade 12. However, many political conservatives aren't interested in increasing funding levels to anywhere near adequate. In addition, they support private school vouchers, which drain money from public education.

I'm not saying it's all their fault, 'cause it's not. There are a million reasons why the public school system is massively F'ed up. But they get credit for a few hundred thousand of them.
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: OT : Are the Poor responsible for their own poverty?

Also, I'd like someone to tell the 1 in 5 children born into poverty that it's their fault they're poor. Wait until they're 18 and tell them that.

Anyone using public schools as an excuse to call the poor lazy needs to realize that public schools that are located in areas of widespread poverty quite frankly suck.
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