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Old 02-16-2014, 12:21 AM   #31
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
Alright guys,I understand your reasons for not firing Woodson but I would still fire him.

So what if we take a risk and hire someone who's a complete mystery ? It might pan out and if it doesn't this season is already over. It's better to use this last 30 games as an experiment that could get us something in the future rather than just watch this disaster continue and do nothing.
Firing Woodson isnt the issue, not having a replacement is.

If there was a guy on the bench< i would consider, but like you said, this season is over.

So why change?
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:57 AM   #32
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

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Originally Posted by knickscity
Firing Woodson isnt the issue, not having a replacement is.

If there was a guy on the bench< i would consider, but like you said, this season is over.

So why change?
To piggy back...

You can not experiment with Melo deciding his future... That's quite counterproductive. Do you think hiring a Brad Stevens (Celtics coach) going to inspire Melo to stay?

Unfortunately this is a constant retooling team never a rebuilding team.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:54 AM   #33
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

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Originally Posted by Rameek
To piggy back...

You can not experiment with Melo deciding his future... That's quite counterproductive. Do you think hiring a Brad Stevens (Celtics coach) going to inspire Melo to stay?

Unfortunately this is a constant retooling team never a rebuilding team.
Fully agree, any move the team makes will be to keep Melo, including a coach.

I actually doubt Wood goes anwhere....cant imagine the backlash of two coaches losing their jobs under Melo.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Woodson isn't a championship caliber coach. If Melo requests Woody to be his coach then he can pack his suitcases and go elsewhere as well.

Maybe Melo and Woodson like each other but these two together can't go far because their style of play/coaching isn't what wins championships.

We need to get coach who'll promote ball movement and defense (without the unnecessary switching) and surround Melo with players who are able to do that.

I don't know if Melo is good enough to win as a#1 option. I KNOW FOR SURE THAT WITH WOODSON HE ISN'T.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:15 PM   #35
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
Woodson isn't a championship caliber coach. If Melo requests Woody to be his coach then he can pack his suitcases and go elsewhere as well.

Maybe Melo and Woodson like each other but these two together can't go far because their style of play/coaching isn't what wins championships.

We need to get coach who'll promote ball movement and defense (without the unnecessary switching) and surround Melo with players who are able to do that.

I don't know if Melo is good enough to win as a#1 option. I KNOW FOR SURE THAT WITH WOODSON HE ISN'T.
Say what will but all coaches are defined by the talent they have to coach.

Pop wasnt a championship quality coach until Duncan....Doc wasnt either til he was gifted KG and Ray.

Dont get me started on Spoelstra.

This team is a second round at best team...thats where they've been.

Woody got them as far as they were capable....it's easy to say "this guy isnt a ship coach".

None are til they win.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

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Originally Posted by knickscity
Say what will but all coaches are defined by the talent they have to coach.

Pop wasnt a championship quality coach until Duncan....Doc wasnt either til he was gifted KG and Ray.

Dont get me started on Spoelstra.

This team is a second round at best team...thats where they've been.

Woody got them as far as they were capable....it's easy to say "this guy isnt a ship coach".

None are til they win.
You have a point. But still,Woodson principles are wrong and he's too stubborn to change it even when he sees it doesn't work.

Popovich changed team's style of play to suit the players he has. That's what makes him so great. He can coach anyone.
People like Woodson or D'Antoni need to have players that perfectly fit their system in order to succeed. Popovich doesn't. He'll make the best out of what he has.

East is horrible this year and we can't even get into the playoffs. We're underachieving. Melo has never missed the playoffs in his career and if Woodson can't get him into the playoffs in this horrible conference then it's time to go.

Bobcats are in front of us and they have no players even near Melo's talent. Heck,they don't even have players that are talented as J.R. or Bargnani.
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
You have a point. But still,Woodson principles are wrong and he's too stubborn to change it even when he sees it doesn't work.

Popovich changed team's style of play to suit the players he has. That's what makes him so great. He can coach anyone.
People like Woodson or D'Antoni need to have players that perfectly fit their system in order to succeed. Popovich doesn't. He'll make the best out of what he has.

East is horrible this year and we can't even get into the playoffs. We're underachieving. Melo has never missed the playoffs in his career and if Woodson can't get him into the playoffs in this horrible conference then it's time to go.

Bobcats are in front of us and they have no players even near Melo's talent. Heck,they don't even have players that are talented as J.R. or Bargnani.
Pop only changed their style because his core got older....and they havent won since....and had the lakers got shaq and kobe on the same level the spurs wouldnt have won squat but the lockout ring.

I really dont care for either dude, but both have been successful as coaches.

The Suns were a suspension away against the Spurs team you're praising, amare and his no defense has always murked Tim Duncan and Nash was light years ahead of Tony Parker.

Point being and there's really no way to dispute it....talent wins, coaching merely takes it over the top.
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Point being and there's really no way to dispute it....talent wins, coaching merely takes it over the top.
That's true but you need a coach that can maximize your talent. To be honest Knicks are talent-wise easily a top8 team in the poor East. So why are we out of the playoffs ?
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:38 AM   #39
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

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Originally Posted by Clutch
That's true but you need a coach that can maximize your talent. To be honest Knicks are talent-wise easily a top8 team in the poor East. So why are we out of the playoffs ?
I'm not sure how talented this team is. I dont even know what Woody system is per se. I guess losing Copeland and Kenyon and Kidd's locker room presence really made a tremendous difference.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:37 AM   #40
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I'm not sure how talented this team is. I dont even know what Woody system is per se. I guess losing Copeland and Kenyon and Kidd's locker room presence really made a tremendous difference.
They are equally or even more talented than the last year's team that got to the 2nd round.

Who did we lose ?
Novak - no talent,just shooting
Copeland - replaced by Tim Hardaway who's even more talented
and a bunch of old guys - Kidd,Camby,Kurt,Sheed

Basically the only talented guy that left was replaced by more talent in Tim Hardaway Jr. and Andrea Bargnani.

If the old guys were the difference between Knicks being a 2nd round team and being a lottery team then it's obvious - COACH DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.
Obviously the old guys were the coaches on the floor and in the locker room and Woodson got the credit for team's success. Now that they are gone,the leadership and coaching is gone and Woodson is exposed.

If you're saying that losing a bunch of old guys who weren't playing a lot is difference between being a 2nd round team and a lottery team then you're basically saying WOODSON SUCKS.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
They are equally or even more talented than the last year's team that got to the 2nd round.

Who did we lose ?
Novak - no talent,just shooting
Copeland - replaced by Tim Hardaway who's even more talented
and a bunch of old guys - Kidd,Camby,Kurt,Sheed

Basically the only talented guy that left was replaced by more talent in Tim Hardaway Jr. and Andrea Bargnani.

If the old guys were the difference between Knicks being a 2nd round team and being a lottery team then it's obvious - COACH DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.
Obviously the old guys were the coaches on the floor and in the locker room and Woodson got the credit for team's success. Now that they are gone,the leadership and coaching is gone and Woodson is exposed.

If you're saying that losing a bunch of old guys who weren't playing a lot is difference between being a 2nd round team and a lottery team then you're basically saying WOODSON SUCKS.
I truly believe you're underestimating the old guys.

Everyone from melo to Woody JR and others have stated they miss them.

They werent just old, they were smart...basketball-wise, and that helps get you through the regular season.

melo still does the Sheed "three to the dome"....kidd might have been the coach the whole season.



Now as far as the player you listed above...no one hits the three even remotely close to Novak, and I betcha melo especially misses that space Novak created by having a man draped on him on the three point line, something bargnani has not replaced at all

hardaway might have replaced Cope...maybe.

This team has paper talent..on the court it's much worse.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:02 AM   #42
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
I truly believe you're underestimating the old guys.

Everyone from melo to Woody JR and others have stated they miss them.

They werent just old, they were smart...basketball-wise, and that helps get you through the regular season.

melo still does the Sheed "three to the dome"....kidd might have been the coach the whole season.



Now as far as the player you listed above...no one hits the three even remotely close to Novak, and I betcha melo especially misses that space Novak created by having a man draped on him on the three point line, something bargnani has not replaced at all

hardaway might have replaced Cope...maybe.

This team has paper talent..on the court it's much worse.
Novak barely played the last 3 months of the season. Copeland got most of the time that's why I mentioned him.

Clutch I was going to post this before but shouldnt this be Melo's team? Shouldnt he hold others accountable on the floor and in the locker room. Sorry but you talked about everyone but Melo and that doesnt fly with me.

Copeland was better than Hardaway dont even see how you can compare the 2. Copeland should have been getting minutes way before Chandler went down. I know he messed up defensively sometimes but most of the Knicks messes up except Shump generally.

And yes you usually build a team and a star develops. Or you build a team and a add a star.
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Old 02-18-2014, 03:30 AM   #43
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
I truly believe you're underestimating the old guys.
Everyone from melo to Woody JR and others have stated they miss them.
They werent just old, they were smart...basketball-wise, and that helps get you through the regular season.
melo still does the Sheed "three to the dome"....kidd might have been the coach the whole season.
Now as far as the player you listed above...no one hits the three even remotely close to Novak, and I betcha melo especially misses that space Novak created by having a man draped on him on the three point line, something bargnani has not replaced at all
hardaway might have replaced Cope...maybe.
This team has paper talent..on the court it's much worse.
I'm not underestimating the old guys. I don't know their true impact on this team. But I know if they're the reason why this team went from 54-28 (.659) to 20-32 (.385) then that basically says "Woodson doesn't know how to coach so he needs veteran guys to do it for him".

Novak was absolutely amazing two seasons ago. Last year he was meh,especially at the end of the year. He shot 42.5% from three last season,in his last 22 games he shot 39.5%. That's good but it's nothing special for a guy who can only do one thing,shoot. For example,Melo this season shoots 41.6% for three and he takes a bunch of contested ones and he's not even primarily a 3-pt shooter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Novak barely played the last 3 months of the season. Copeland got most of the time that's why I mentioned him.

Clutch I was going to post this before but shouldnt this be Melo's team? Shouldnt he hold others accountable on the floor and in the locker room. Sorry but you talked about everyone but Melo and that doesnt fly with me.

Copeland was better than Hardaway dont even see how you can compare the 2. Copeland should have been getting minutes way before Chandler went down. I know he messed up defensively sometimes but most of the Knicks messes up except Shump generally.

And yes you usually build a team and a star develops. Or you build a team and a add a star.

Melo's averaging 27/9/3 on 45% shooting,which isn't great but it's pretty solid for a wing who takes a lot of shots. Also he's been playing the best defense of his career.
He's never missed the playoffs in his career despite playing in the West which was like a million times tougher than the East is this year.
Melo isn't the reason why we're out of the playoffs. Sure,he isn't on LeBron's or Durant's level but he's good enough to get his teams into the playoffs constantly.

The reason I didn't mention Melo is that I was comparing talents. Melo is the same Melo from last season + even better defense and rebounding.
I only mentioned players who either left or are acquired this season. That's why I didn't mention some others like Amare,Tyson,Felton...because they were here last season and they're here now.
I was just comparing talents and talent-wise this team is definitely not worse than the last year's team. They're about the same.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

What do ya know? Knicks won a game.

Melo got his efficient scoring on, and got some help from the backup guards.

Hope Shump is ok.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:18 AM   #45
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Default Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
What do ya know? Knicks won a game.

Melo got his efficient scoring on, and got some help from the backup guards.

Hope Shump is ok.
Yeah,we won,but like I said earlier,this won't be enough to get us into the playoffs. We're 3.5 games out of the playoffs and the 8th seed Bobcats are currently playing much better than us and increasing the difference.

In order for us to get into the playoffs we need to go on a extended winning streak. So I'm looking at our schedule and I see only one opportunity for us to do so.

From March 7th to March 26th we play:
vs Utah
@ Cleveland
vs Philly
@ Boston
vs Milwaukee
vs Indiana
@ Philly
vs Cleveland
@ LA Lakers
@ Sacramento

If we don't go at least 7-3 or 8-2 on that stretch there's absolutely no way we get into the playoffs.

Personally I don't think we're going to make it but let's wait and see if the Knicks can shock us all and actually play well for an extended period of time.
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