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Old 08-18-2013, 08:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

It's not such a horrible idea. Spacing is a legit concern but what about the benefit of a potential twin tower defense? They could make it extremely hard to score in the paint and they could also win the mismatches most of the time. Howard is mobile and would do a better job of covering stretch 4s than that perimeter PF is going to do of covering him in the paint. It's not guaranteed to work well of course but that's why it's called an experiment. If it turns out to be more negative than positive they can just stop.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:35 AM   #17
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

I used to say they should try this out when the Lakers were struggling. Put Pau down the block more and let Howard play the four using his quickness.

It might work but mobile stretch PF's who can really shoot are gonna create a lot of match up problems.

Just think about it... Howard trying to guard Ryan Anderson or Josh Smith?
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Why do the Pelicans even need Anderson? Davis is not a 5 and Anderson would be much more needed in Houston. Asik for Anderson is a perfect trade for both teams.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade8780
Why do the Pelicans even need Anderson? Davis is not a 5 and Anderson would be much more needed in Houston. Asik for Anderson is a perfect trade for both teams.


Davis is not a 5 right now but he is the team's future center. AD has a massive frame if he fills out he will be fine.

and we have a poor man's Asik in Greg Stiemsma.

Also, Anderson fits our team better than one might think. With Holiday/Gordon/Reke, we need to take an opposing big out of the paint so all 3 can go to work attacking the basket.. and Anderson does that with his shooting.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

They have a decent enough combination of youth, athleticism, and perimeter shooting to be able to make if work on both ends of the floor.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by russwest0
This would be hilarious to watch in the playoffs.

OKC would just put KD at the 4 and the domination would ensue

Agreed. putting somebody like KD or Josh Smith in at the 4 would be an easy way to take Dwight/Asik off the floor.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

It would be fine. 4/5 combos have been made of non shooters without incident for 60 years. Even 4s with decent 15 footers arent exactly spacing the floor much when many of those jumpers are uncontested because their man doesnt respect them as a real scoring option.

Bynum and Sideshow bob are about to be on the floor together a lot. Bynum can shoot a bit but wont be asked to and Andy can hit an ugly 15 footer when left open....but hes left open. He isnt taking his man out of the paint with him. Even left alone hes not gonna punish you. You are more hurt giving their guards a lane than letting Andy have the 3 jumpers hes gonna take a night.

The 4s who shoot well enough that their teams will just whore you if you dont defend them.....not many of them.

PJ Brown could shoot. Kurt Thomas. Brandon Bass. Bass is a great shooter. And people still dont guard him terribly close.

Spacing is more of an issue with guards and swingmen. at the 4 there arent enough real shooters to force spacing no matter what.

Ibaka shoots his ass off the last few years. And guys just watch him do it. If you dont get the spacing anyway and just get 2 jumpers a night out of 90 possessions of offense...you might benefit more from totally shutting down the lane on defense as Dwight/Asik could do than by getting the 4 points a night you may by one of them being allowed an uncontested jumper every half.

It would work out fine. Just not vs all teams. But no lineup works vs all teams.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Those guys have to guard Dwight too though.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
It's not such a horrible idea. Spacing is a legit concern but what about the benefit of a potential twin tower defense? They could make it extremely hard to score in the paint and they could also win the mismatches most of the time. Howard is mobile and would do a better job of covering stretch 4s than that perimeter PF is going to do of covering him in the paint. It's not guaranteed to work well of course but that's why it's called an experiment. If it turns out to be more negative than positive they can just stop.


Yea, this, how bad can spacing be? Everyone else could be legitwet, so we're talking about the PF sagging in toward the C. It'd be best to use Dwight as picker. They'd still beast on D and the boards.

Not every team has a wet PF. Dudes can also roll to the basket if someone helps off of them. And if PF goes off of dwight to help and Asik shoots a hook shot, that's rebs all day for Dwight.

Plus, they can just start it like that then change in the middle of the game. NO PF IN THE GAME WANTS TO SEE DWIGHT. Even if he doesn't catch the ball, he should focus on just banging his body into theirs.

-Smak
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
It would be fine. 4/5 combos have been made of non shooters without incident for 60 years.

But how many of those non shooting PF/C combo's have won championships recently? ... That is the ultimate goal... Can you explain what you mean "without incident"? I've seen lots of crappy lineups that went down without incident, doesn't really prove that it works though (at a high level).

What happened 60 years ago, in particular, I think most would agree is not completely and utterly relevant to today's game and rules.

How about the last 10-20 years?

Heat - have Bosh, who utilizes his midrange often and drags the defender out
Mavs - Had Dirk, and Marion can shoot when/if he plays the 4.
Lakers - have Gasol and even Bynum has more range than Dwight
Celtics - had KG and Big baby can shoot
Heat - had Haslem who is a jump shooter for the most part
Spurs - Had Duncan and even Oberto/Nazr/Rasho could knock down a jumper
Pistons - had Sheed with lots of range
Shaq - had the most dominant center of the modern era, so probably didn't matter, but also had Horry, etc.
Bulls - had the GOAT so probably didn't matter
Rockets - Hakeem and Sampson had range

The Orlando Magic made it to the Finals with Rashard Lewis playing PF, somebody who shot upwards of 5 three's a game.

The Thunder is not a great example, because they have a center who's extremely offensively impotent since joining them (he's never gotten back to 2010 form). Put Asik in place of Perkins and I think opponents have to respect Ibaka more because they can't camp out closer to the basket on Perkins.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
It's not such a horrible idea. Spacing is a legit concern but what about the benefit of a potential twin tower defense?

The only thing I worry about with this is fouls. Dwight is really foul prone. and Asik is not that much better, but better. If you can get either one of them in foul trouble, or consistently drag them out of the paint, I question if the defense will be reminiscent of the some of the best twin tower defenses we've seen. Howard's pick and roll defense is ok, mostly redeemed by his shot blocking abilities and not necessarily his ability to stay with the offensive player. I guess it boils down to having a good defensive system, which we def didn't see in Houston last season or Los Angeles.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
But how many of those non shooting PF/C combo's have won championships recently? ... That is the ultimate goal... Can you explain what you mean "without incident"? I've seen lots of crappy lineups that went down without incident, doesn't really prove that it works though (at a high level).

What happened 60 years ago, in particular, I think most would agree is not completely and utterly relevant to today's game and rules.

How about the last 10-20 years?

Heat - have Bosh, who utilizes his midrange often and drags the defender out
Mavs - Had Dirk, and Marion can shoot when/if he plays the 4.
Lakers - have Gasol and even Bynum has more range than Dwight
Celtics - had KG and Big baby can shoot
Heat - had Haslem who is a jump shooter for the most part
Spurs - Had Duncan and even Oberto/Nazr/Rasho could knock down a jumper
Pistons - had Sheed with lots of range
Shaq - had the most dominant center of the modern era, so probably didn't matter, but also had Horry, etc.
Bulls - had the GOAT so probably didn't matter
Rockets - Hakeem and Sampson had range

The Orlando Magic made it to the Finals with Rashard Lewis playing PF, somebody who shot upwards of 5 three's a game.

The Thunder is not a great example, because they have a center who's extremely offensively impotent since joining them (he's never gotten back to 2010 form). Put Asik in place of Perkins and I think opponents have to respect Ibaka more because they can't camp out closer to the basket on Perkins.

The best teams win...not because of a particular style per Se, but because they are the best team. Put Lebron, CP3 on Houston and they will win with the non shooting 4/5 because they would just be better.

Also, just because a team doesn't win a title doesn't mean the lineup can't work. Only one team wins a year.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
The best teams win...not because of a particular style per Se, but because they are the best team. Put Lebron, CP3 on Houston and they will win with the non shooting 4/5 because they would just be better.

Also, just because a team doesn't win a title doesn't mean the lineup can't work. Only one team wins a year.

Not every team wins. Obviously.

But I think it's fair to assume the Rockets are building a roster with the intentions of making the WCF or Finals.

An experiment, as McHale puts it when talking about Dwight-Asik, either works to some degree or it doesn't work to some degree. We will probably find out long before the playoffs.

Having said that, "working" in this scenario I believe would be making a strong playoff run or winning a title, "not working" I think would be losing early in the playoffs, not making the playoffs, or losing deep in the playoffs because of a glaring problem directly related to this topic (lack of front court chemistry and effectiveness).

As for Lebron and CP3, I agree turning the Rockets into a fairy tail / NBA2K lineup would put them over the top... but let's be realistic.

I disagree that you think there are not some commonalities among winning teams and generally winning formulas to use. It is a "rule of law"? obviously not, but still worth acknowledging.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Not every team wins. Obviously.

But I think it's fair to assume the Rockets are building a roster with the intentions of making the WCF or Finals.

An experiment, as McHale puts it when talking about Dwight-Asik, either works to some degree or it doesn't work to some degree. We will probably find out long before the playoffs.

Having said that, "working" in this scenario I believe would be making a strong playoff run or winning a title, "not working" I think would be losing early in the playoffs, not making the playoffs, or losing deep in the playoffs because of a glaring problem directly related to this topic (lack of front court chemistry and effectiveness).

As for Lebron and CP3, I agree turning the Rockets into a fairy tail / NBA2K lineup would put them over the top... but let's be realistic.

I disagree that you think there are not some commonalities among winning teams and generally winning formulas to use. It is a "rule of law"? obviously not, but still worth acknowledging.

People say the same thing about those suns teams. But if had Lebron on them they win a title. All the sudden small ball wins. It's about the specific teams in question.

Bynum and Pau won a title and there was zero floor spacing unless you count teams giving Pau jumpers the same way they give them to Josh Smith.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:19 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
People say the same thing about those suns teams. But if had Lebron on them they win a title. All the sudden small ball wins. It's about the specific teams in question.

Bynum and Pau won a title and there was zero floor spacing unless you count teams giving Pau jumpers the same way they give them to Josh Smith.
Ummm...Pau is a very solid shooter for a PF from 15-17 feet out.
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