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Old 08-18-2013, 01:20 PM   #31
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
People say the same thing about those suns teams. But if had Lebron on them they win a title. All the sudden small ball wins. It's about the specific teams in question.

Bynum and Pau won a title and there was zero floor spacing unless you count teams giving Pau jumpers the same way they give them to Josh Smith.

Pau has steadily increased his usage of his jumper, probably even too much, but no doubt his range helped the Lakers offense in ways Duncan's jumper has helped the Spurs. It's not that teams "give him jumpers", it's that teams have to respect it and cover him when he roams outside of the paint (but within the 3 point line). Just having the ability to face-up opponents and fake the jumper makes a difference. For a host of reasons a high-low game with a PF or C who can shoot works.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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Originally Posted by SCdac
Pau has steadily increased his usage of his jumper, probably even too much, but no doubt his range helped the Lakers offense in ways Duncan's jumper has helped the Spurs. It's not that teams "give him jumpers", it's that teams have to respect it and cover him when he roams outside of the paint (but within the 3 point line). Just having the ability to face-up opponents and fake the jumper makes a difference. For a host of reasons a high-low game with a PF or C who can shoot works.
I understand the concept of spacing and agree with it. However, teams didnt respect Pau's jumper. It was conceded. Especially in the playoffs.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:34 PM   #33
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
I understand the concept of spacing and agree with it. However, teams didnt respect Pau's jumper. It was conceded. Especially in the playoffs.

Was just now watching games from LAL-BOS 2010 on youtube and the Celtics closed in on Gasol pretty hard every time he got the ball in midrange. They didn't back off him daring him to shoot, like we've seen defenders do to, say, Rajon Rondo at times. Disagree with you that teams didn't respect Gasol's jumper but agree to disagree. Often times they had Lamar Odom at PF too, pushing Gasol to center, again emphasizing range and spacing.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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Originally Posted by SCdac
The only thing I worry about with this is fouls. Dwight is really foul prone. and Asik is not that much better, but better. If you can get either one of them in foul trouble, or consistently drag them out of the paint, I question if the defense will be reminiscent of the some of the best twin tower defenses we've seen. Howard's pick and roll defense is ok, mostly redeemed by his shot blocking abilities and not necessarily his ability to stay with the offensive player. I guess it boils down to having a good defensive system, which we def didn't see in Houston last season or Los Angeles.

as (forgot who) would say it's a "mute" point.

The reason is because if they foul then they sit on the bench, so they aren't playing together. The reason they are both starting is because of ego issues not because this is the best line up.

-Smak
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
The only thing I worry about with this is fouls. Dwight is really foul prone. and Asik is not that much better, but better. If you can get either one of them in foul trouble, or consistently drag them out of the paint, I question if the defense will be reminiscent of the some of the best twin tower defenses we've seen. Howard's pick and roll defense is ok, mostly redeemed by his shot blocking abilities and not necessarily his ability to stay with the offensive player. I guess it boils down to having a good defensive system, which we def didn't see in Houston last season or Los Angeles.
They won't be Duncan an Robinson but the Rockets shouldn't be worried about their place in history, they should be trying to put out the line-up that gives them the best chance to win games.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Imagine Dwight and Ask in the fourth quarter of a playoff game against the Spurs. Popovitch will be drooling over the amount of fouls he could lay on these dudes.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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But how many of those non shooting PF/C combo's have won championships recently? ...


How many teams of any kind have won recently?

What kind of question is that?

One team wins a year. Those teams usually win more than once with that core. Spurs, heat, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets....

The titles are won by very small groups of teams.

Asking if something works...is not the same as asking who won a ring doing it lately.




Quote:
That is the ultimate goal... Can you explain what you mean "without incident"? I've seen lots of crappy lineups that went down without incident, doesn't really prove that it works though

Seems it does.

Basketball is complicated in ways but not so much as people want to pretend in discussions like this.

Dwight playing the 4 will cause nothing of note to happen. Not like hes not done it before. It is a non issue. Its a non issue no matter who the 5 next to him is.

That doesnt mean im saying dont talk about it. I dont care what anyone is interested in. What im saying is....

Darius Miles played point for the cavs
Barkley was a small forward in Philly
Shane Battier is a power forward now
Anthony Mason was a pointguard on the Knicks for a while
Shaq and Dennis Rodman played next to eachother and they had the best stretch of that season

Positions dont matter. Especially at the 4-5. Spacing is just a hot term on places like this these days. All about the spacing.

This shit will not matter. Its like people saying Lebron cant defend bigmen. Only he does...so what does it matter what anyone thinks he can do?

Dwight plays the 4. Has plenty of times. Im talking...for years. N omatter how they decide to go...he and Asik will play together.

At those times....NOTHING of note will happen.

Even if they start together the Rockets have shooters to spare. Some of them the type to play the 4. I liked Motiejunas when I watched them. Parsons is 6'9'' and will at some point be at the 4 no matter what anyone thinks makes sense. basketball games are too fluid to worry about shit like this.

How their lineup looks for 4 minutes before it changes just isnt that big a deal. Especially when its not exactly breaking new ground. Two bigmen who dont shoot?

Not exactly putting Dwight at the 2 and just seeing how it goes.

Its standard basketball.

Nothing newsworthy.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:44 PM   #38
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

All depends on the style they play.

If they played some zone on defense and slowed it down and played half court offensively I could see it actually being pretty effective....especially in the playoffs.

But a stretch 4 next to Dwight is simply way more valuable than Asik. Rockets should definitely trade Asik and Lin imo.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:51 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Why Lin?

I never got that. He isnt elite. He isnt even above average. but hes young and has shown potential. Why not at least give him a shot with Dwight?
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Why Lin?

I never got that. He isnt elite. He isnt even above average. but hes young and has shown potential. Why not at least give him a shot with Dwight?
Rockets have a promising PG in PatBe and they should capitalize on him. Lin is a 6th Man on the Championship Team with a Star Player's contract.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:03 PM   #41
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

1. Spread the floor
2. Run double PnR every time down the floor
3. Get dunk or 3 point shot every time
4. ??????????????
5. Championship!
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:04 PM   #42
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Lin isnt promising? Was beverly lighting up the Dleague more impressive than Lin giving the Lakers 40 or wetting pullup 3s on the road for the win?

Lin is still young. he has room to improve and played well last year. Isnt a star but hes hardly a lost cause either. His contract is...whatever. They are gonna pay the money either way. Just a matter of who gets it.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

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Originally Posted by CanYouDigIt
Rockets have a promising PG in PatBe and they should capitalize on him. Lin is a 6th Man on the Championship Team with a Star Player's contract.

Lin is making about $8 mil a year, that's hardly star money. On top that, he has a better track record of performing than Beverely does (Lin is also younger, but they're close enough that it's splitting hairs).

Also, thread's like this kind of make me laugh because of the extremes people immediately jump to. If you based your understanding off this thread, you'd think the Rockets were claiming to not only play Howard and Asik together but make sure they both play 36 minutes a game. When in reality the Rockets are only trying to maximize an asset they have on the roster. It doesn't do them any good to have Asik just sit on the bench and he's also a good enough player that they'll find as many minutes for him to make him enticing enough to teams when players start to get injured during the season and they can get the best deal for him. This means that they're probably going to find about 20 minutes a game for Asik and that'll probably result in playing with Howard for about 6 minutes or so a game, which won't effect the offense all that negatively (if it all) while making the defense that much stronger and strong that they'll still be a plus duo on the floor together.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:24 PM   #44
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
How many teams of any kind have won recently?

What kind of question is that?

One team wins a year. Those teams usually win more than once with that core. Spurs, heat, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets....

The titles are won by very small groups of teams.

Asking if something works...is not the same as asking who won a ring doing it lately.


Seems it does.

Basketball is complicated in ways but not so much as people want to pretend in discussions like this.

Dwight playing the 4 will cause nothing of note to happen. Not like hes not done it before. It is a non issue. Its a non issue no matter who the 5 next to him is.

That doesnt mean im saying dont talk about it. I dont care what anyone is interested in. What im saying is....

Darius Miles played point for the cavs
Barkley was a small forward in Philly
Shane Battier is a power forward now
Anthony Mason was a pointguard on the Knicks for a while
Shaq and Dennis Rodman played next to eachother and they had the best stretch of that season

Positions dont matter. Especially at the 4-5. Spacing is just a hot term on places like this these days. All about the spacing.

This shit will not matter. Its like people saying Lebron cant defend bigmen. Only he does...so what does it matter what anyone thinks he can do?

Dwight plays the 4. Has plenty of times. Im talking...for years. N omatter how they decide to go...he and Asik will play together.

At those times....NOTHING of note will happen.

Even if they start together the Rockets have shooters to spare. Some of them the type to play the 4. I liked Motiejunas when I watched them. Parsons is 6'9'' and will at some point be at the 4 no matter what anyone thinks makes sense. basketball games are too fluid to worry about shit like this.

How their lineup looks for 4 minutes before it changes just isnt that big a deal. Especially when its not exactly breaking new ground. Two bigmen who dont shoot?

Not exactly putting Dwight at the 2 and just seeing how it goes.

Its standard basketball.

Nothing newsworthy.

If anybody is making this overly complicated, I think it's you. And I love how you know, with conviction and certainty, what will happen and what will be a non issue. If that's not aloof, I don't know what is. But that's your MO. So whatever.

It's a non issue, not a big deal, to you.... doesn't mean its the same way for the Rockets coaching staff or for the rest of the observers of the game and ISH posters.

I don't think it takes a basketball expert to notice that a Howard-Asik lineup, or formerly Howard-Gortat lineup in Orlando, might not be ideal in the here and now. Also, I think it's fair to say Dwight is more of a natural center than not.

I clearly said in response to somebody else what I believe would be considered "working" or "not working". If you consider just any lineup that gets just any results "working", that's fine, by that logic any lineup ever fielded "worked"...but I'm operating under the assumption that every team (particularly teams with multiple AS's like Houston) is playing the game ultimately win a title or come as close as possible to it.

So, let me rephrase for those who need it.... do you think a Howard-Asik front court to start games will work in terms of championship aspirations?

Will it have to be for only 4 minutes at a time, is that what you're implying? Will it mean that Parson will play the 4 and Howard pushed to center very soon into the first quarter? Does it mean that it, in actuality, won't work for an extended amount of time?

If you don't want to talk about without sounding sour or insulted, there's 20 other threads on the first page to be sour and insulted in man....

I said already in the OP that Dwight played PF before (early in his career, in seasons where they missed the playoffs). You saying it again is redundant. Merely doing it doesn't mean it's working at a high level (you conveniently deleted that part when quoting me). That notion should be easy to grasp.

Disagree with you that "positions don't matter" or that any PF is basically interchangeable with centers nowadays, or vica verca. As for spacing, I'm sure coaches are emphasizing spacing alot more than the average ISH poster, so I don't know what you're getting at if you think it's an ISH myth of some kind.

Scratching my head wondering if you're just playing devils advocate, actually think Dwight will fair no problem because of his skillset, think that an Dwight-Asik lineup is ideal, or anything in between.

Also I think you're confusing the "will it work for the Rockets?" question with "has a player ever played out of position in the history of the NBA"? Obviously players have played out of their position, and do what would seem like odd things, and it should be just as obvious that's not really what this thread's about.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: Dwight Howard at PF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Why Lin?

I never got that. He isnt elite. He isnt even above average. but hes young and has shown potential. Why not at least give him a shot with Dwight?

For a number of reasons. But the main two being that they don't need him with Beverly and his contract is bad. If the Rockets trade both Lin and Asik...they will have room next summer to get another max type player in Houston. Which is exactly what they will need to win.

So you trade them both now to get something back and allow your team to move forward because neither Lin or Asik are part of the long term future of the Rockets.

This is a common mistake a lot of GM's make...unless the Rockets are confident they want to try to resign Asik in 2 years...they should trade him now. Simple as that. Same thing for Lin.
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