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Old 08-22-2013, 05:59 AM   #61
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Leavenworth too. Any time he does there sure as shit won't be easy time.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:12 AM   #62
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Wow This KevinNYC guy is such a pest.

Leaking "secret" documents is not a crime. To bring an oath to it - well, the Clapper guy just lied to the Congress and he is fine - now leading the group to reform the very thing he was mighty OK to begin with!!! How about that.

My god Manning revealed the war crimes - what a criminal.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:14 AM   #63
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

He did a document dump. Anyone who has gone through training for the type of clearance he had is fully aware of the consequences. They hammer that into you before and after you get the clearance. He did what he thought was right. Kudos to him. Now he is going through the consequences through his own doing. No sympathy from me.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:19 AM   #64
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
He didn't realize this would be the outcome of what he was doing? He leaked government secrets, you are going to jail. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow and you which you don't. I feel bad for him but didn't he commit the crime of which he's going to jail for?
How about you follow Constition first, and some common sense?

If he saw the evidence of war crimes commited and chose to stay silent, wouldn't that be a real crime? I mean government stamping "secret" over everything that is the evidence of their crime doesn't fly, or does it?
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:27 AM   #65
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by daily
yep.

People saying what he leaked didn't hurt people are missing the point. He leaked classified government information. This is not a gray area that some classified information is ok to leak as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
No.

Hear from Mr. Greenwald himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgnJ_W_5zU

Now even though he was working for a government, the truth comes first. I do not really care about some silly policy saying you have to hide war crimes.

Last edited by kNIOKAS : 08-22-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:22 AM   #66
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.

Hopefully, you'll decide to hurl yourself off a bridge.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:38 AM   #67
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by kNIOKAS
Leaking "secret" documents is not a crime.



What do you think this whole trial thing was about?
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:57 AM   #68
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

This really sucks. If only he was talented enough to play football like his brothers Peyton and Eli, this would never have happened.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:21 AM   #69
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC



What do you think this whole trial thing was about?
This is the case of American citizens being shitheads and letting their government get away with commiting war crimes and oppresing those who think it is not ok.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #70
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by kNIOKAS
This is the case of American citizens being shitheads and letting their government get away with commiting war crimes and oppresing those who think it is not ok.

Can you PLEASE keep it down already? I'm watching Duck Dynasty.....idiot!!!
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:36 AM   #71
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndeeregreen
Leavenworth too. Any time he does there sure as shit won't be easy time.
Bradley Manning is physically small, pre op transgender, and the government hates him. Prediction he gets raped so much that he commits suicide. government acts like they feel bad it happens, but secretly knew it would happen and wanted it to happen. All future war crimes are kept secret.

Its the same as the romans crucifixion practices. The crucified people were always those who challenged the state. The empire needed to make an example of them. They propped them up on a hill so that everyone could see how they died. Needed to intimidate others into submission. Oldest trick in the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC



What do you think this whole trial thing was about?

Intimidating future people who would disclose information such as:
-contradicting US government claims that they had no information on civilian casualties
-showing that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been held without trial on no evidence. KevinNYC try to have some compassion for 1 second and imagine you were one of these men. one day an army ranger unit kidnaps you at gunpoint or a CIA officer tosses a bag over your head. All because one of your neighbors had a problem with you. Then you are held for 10+ years without trial. They force feed you because the US government wont allow you to die because it would embarrass them.

You're ok with that right? Because the men who made this decision weren't 22 year old transgender? The real injustice here is that the America people found about it right?
-Video of US pilots killing civilians and first responders and than celebrating their death. the pentagon refuses to follow our laws and release the video to reuters under the freedom of information act (the video is in no way operationally sensitive). The real crime here was leaking the video right?

You are ok with the US government supporting arab dictatorships and giving weapons to people we know are likely to use them against civilians right? the real crime is letting the American people know about it right?

We got to follow the rules blindly, if a soldier sees a war crime and they are ordered to suppress it, the moral thing to do is to keep their oath right? Follow orders at all times? You see evidence that innocent people have been held for no reason by our government for 10+ years, the immoral thing to do is to tell the american people right? gotta keep that oath right?

Also disclosing classified information is only a crime when it hurts the administration right? The political ramifications are what make it a crime right? Sure the government couldn't prove a specific person that was hurt by the leaks, but they stained the reputation of the government right? Leaking classified info about the CIA kill list helped the government so it was perfectly legal right?

Honestly man how much of your defense of the government here is related to the fact that you support Obama no matter what? I know people like you man, my cousin and I used to always talk about how Bush was violating our constitutional rights wiretapping without warrants and shit. Nowadays its just that Obama needs to protect us. Be honest if McCain were president you would support Manning.

Last edited by MavsSuperFan : 08-22-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:46 AM   #72
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC


Book it here.
Snowden is going permanently defect and Julian Assange will move on the next person he can convince to throw his life his away.

Why is it that the actual revelations don't offend you at all?
Only the people being that did the revealing.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #73
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
He did a document dump. Anyone who has gone through training for the type of clearance he had is fully aware of the consequences. They hammer that into you before and after you get the clearance. He did what he thought was right. Kudos to him. Now he is going through the consequences through his own doing. No sympathy from me.



Sometimes laws are unjust. A slave runs away from his owner he broke the law technically, that means he is undeserving of sympathy?

If a soldier sees a war crime, and is ordered to cover it up, but because of morals discloses it to the few reporters willing to go against the US government and then is punished for it he doesn't deserve sympathy?

1 question were the nazi and imperial japanese soldiers wrong to follow orders when they were ordered to destroy evidence of war crimes?

Edit: Honestly what for the US government apologists here:

what is the problem in a free country for the citizenry to know how many civilian's their government has killed in military operations? what is the problem with letting American citizens know that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been imprisoned without trial and on no evidence? What is the problem with letting American citizens see a video of US soldiers killing civilians and first responders?

Bradley mannings leaks didn't contain top secret fighter plane designs, missile designs or any other weapon design. They didnt disclose the identity of specific CIA or military agents. They didnt disclose CIA or military operations. They didnt disclose future US military plans.

Which piece of disclosed information should not be known by the citizenry of a free country?

Last edited by MavsSuperFan : 08-22-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:55 AM   #74
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Bradley Manning is physically small, pre op transgender, and the government hates him. Prediction he gets raped so much that he commits suicide. government acts like they feel bad it happens, but secretly knew it would happen and wanted it to happen. All future war crimes are kept secret.

Its the same as the romans crucifixion practices. The crucified people were always those who challenged the state. The empire needed to make an example of them. They propped them up on a hill so that everyone could see how they died. Needed to intimidate others into submission. Oldest trick in the book.



Intimidating future people who would disclose information such as:
-contradicting US government claims that they had no information on civilian casualties
-showing that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been held without trial on no evidence. KevinNYC try to have some compassion for 1 second and imagine you were one of these men. one day an army ranger unit kidnaps you at gunpoint or a CIA officer tosses a bag over your head. All because one of your neighbors had a problem with you. Then you are held for 10+ years without trial. They force feed you because the US government wont allow you to die because it would embarrass them.

You're ok with that right? Because the men who made this decision weren't 22 year old transgender? The real injustice here is that the America people found about it right?
-Video of US pilots killing civilians and first responders and than celebrating their death. the pentagon refuses to follow our laws and release the video to reuters under the freedom of information act (the video is in no way operationally sensitive). The real crime here was leaking the video right?

You are ok with the US government supporting arab dictatorships and giving weapons to people we know are likely to use them against civilians right? the real crime is letting the American people know about it right?

We got to follow the rules blindly, if a soldier sees a war crime and they are ordered to suppress it, the moral thing to do is to keep their oath right? Follow orders at all times? You see evidence that innocent people have been held for no reason by our government for 10+ years, the immoral thing to do is to tell the american people right? gotta keep that oath right?

Also disclosing classified information is only a crime when it hurts the administration right? The political ramifications are what make it a crime right? Sure the government couldn't prove a specific person that was hurt by the leaks, but they stained the reputation of the government right? Leaking classified info about the CIA kill list helped the government so it was perfectly legal right?

Honestly man how much of your defense of the government here is related to the fact that you support Obama no matter what? I know people like you man, my cousin and I used to always talk about how Bush was violating our constitutional rights wiretapping without warrants and shit. Nowadays its just that Obama needs to protect us. Be honest if McCain were president you would support Manning.
You're constructing the very definition of a strawman argument.

Also don't accuse me of not having compassion. When I showed that towards manning earlier, I was accused of smearing him. Also I doubt he gets raped ever at Leavenworth, that's more of a state prison issue. You finding his motives acceptable, doesn't make him any less culpable.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:02 AM   #75
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Default Re: Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

A lot of good points, but the thing that stands out the most is:

1. Can't believe KevNYC is using a low ball deceptive use of logic in calling out Manning as a transgender. Haha what a loser. Look at this idiot trying to grasp at bullsh*t to make himself sound more reasonable.

2. The argument is split 50/50: one side believes Manning is guilty because he broke the law; another side doesn't believe the law is broken because what is being leaked is criminal in and of itself. It's hard to find a solution to this problem, so the question everybody should ask themselves is, "What does KevNYC think?" Usually the opposite of that should be the correct one.
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