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  1. #46
    NBA Legend LAZERUSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
    Lakers were down by double digits (or close to it) in the 4th quarter before Wilt went out. And when he was out the Lakers did go on a run, and almost came back to win.

    FLAT OUT LIE...

    The Lakers were down by 17 points with 10 minutes left in the game. When Chamberlain pulled himself out of the game, the lead had been cut to SEVEN, with more than five minutes left. The Lakers had chopped off ten points in about four minutes...and Boston was on fumes. And Wilt's replacement, me Counts, who would shoot 4-13 from the field, missed a key shot, and had a key turnover late.

    Only a complete idiot would have left Chamberlain on the bench in the last five minutes of a game seven...and unfortunately for Laker fans...that is EXACTLY what they had running the show.

    West was FURIOUS when he found out about it after the game...and shortly thereafter Van Breda Kolf resigned, before surely being fired. His coaching career went completely downhill after that.

  2. #47
    Kobe Apostle Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    In '61, the post-season league FG% was .403...Wilt's teammates... .332.

    In '62, the post-season league FG% was .411. Wilt's teammates... .354.

    In '66, Chamberlain's Sixers went 55-25, and had the best record in the league. In the post-season, while Chamberlain shot .509 from the field (and against Russell), the post-seaosn league FG% was .440. Wilt's teammates...
    .352. yep....352 in a post-season NBA that shot .440.

    Your opinion of the '69 Lakers. They collectively shot .421 in the post-season (and .360 in game seven of the Finals). The post-season NBA... .431.

    Look...year-after-year Chamberlain's teammates under-performed. Hell, even in their title year of 71-72...his teammates collectively shot .414, in a post-season NBA that shot .446. And yet, because of Wilt's efficiency, rebounding, and stifling defense, that team went 12-3 and won the title. Just amazing.

    And he was playing out of his mind in nearly every post-season series, as well. I have pointed out that he just blew away the NBA post-season TS% in his '65 playoff run, when he carried a 40-40 team past the loaded 48-32 Royals in the first round, and then lost a game seven, by one point, to the 62-18 Celtics...with a 30 ppg 31 rpg, .555 FG% (and .560 TS%) series.

    Yet, the "Wilt-bashers" just look at his 2 rings. And, while they are ripping Chamberlain, they are praising Hakeem, who couldn't get past the first round in over half of his post-seasons. Or Bird, who played with HOF-laden rosters, and only won three rings...all while choking miserably in several of his playoff series. Or a Kareem, who won ONE ring in the decade of the 80's, and in fact, played on several 59+ win teams that just flat out puked in the playoffs. If it hadn't been for Magic saving his a$$, he would have been labeled as the greatest "loser" in NBA history.
    Still doesn't excuse 69-70. Lets ignore 60-68, and 71-73.

  3. #48
    NBA Legend CavaliersFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
    Still doesn't excuse 69-70. Lets ignore 60-68, and 71-73.
    So players are defined by failed opportunities, is that how it works? If so, both Kobe and Shaq each [COLOR="Red"]failed[/COLOR] to win a title for an equal number or more seasons of their active careers than Wilt did. Ouch.

  4. #49
    Kobe Apostle Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
    So players are defined by failed opportunities, is that how it works? If so, both Kobe and Shaq each [COLOR="Red"]failed[/COLOR] to win a title for an equal number or more seasons of their active careers than Wilt did. Ouch.
    Huh?

    Shaq and Kobe were 3/4

    West and Wilt were 1/4

  5. #50
    NBA Legend CavaliersFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
    Huh?

    Shaq and Kobe were 3/4

    West and Wilt were 1/4
    Making it to the Finals >>> Not making it to the Finals at all

    And what I said was, the number of seasons Kobe or Shaq has FAILED to win a title, is equal to or greater than the number of seasons Wilt failed to win a title. Kobe is actually about to pass Wilt up in number of active seasons he failed to win a ring too. Shameful.

  6. #51
    Kobe Apostle Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
    Making it to the Finals >>> Not making it to the Finals at all

    And what I said was, the number of seasons Kobe or Shaq has FAILED to win a title, is equal to or greater than the number of seasons Wilt failed to win a title. Kobe is actually about to pass Wilt up in number of active seasons he failed to win a ring too. Shameful.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Wilt only won when he was a glorified role player.

    He is overrated.

  8. #53
    NBA rookie of the year
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS


    Maybe you can find similar "help" for Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem...
    Hakeem won in '94 while having Maxwell as his 2nd best scoring teammate, Maxwell averaged 13.8 points on 36 FG%.

    Wilt won while being the tied 2nd best scoring player in the '67 playoffs and the fourth in '72 playoffs. You clown.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Interesting...

    Here was my post exactly above this one...



    Of course, Chamberlain's teammates actually playing well was not the norm.

    And, while you are at it...

    Chamberlain was the '67 76ers LEADING scorer, leading rebounder, leading assist man, leading FG% shooter, leading TS% shooter, leading Defensive Win Share player, leading Offensive Win Share player, leading Win Share player, and high PER man.
    Of course he was the leading scorer in the regular season, we're talking about Wilt after all. And as always he dropped in the playoffs and became the tied 2nd highest scorer and in the finals he had 4 teammates who scored more points than him per game. Classic Wilt..

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    And you act like he couldn't score in the playoffs. He had the HIGH game in that Sixer post-season, of 41 points. In the clinching game five rout of Boston, he put up 29 points, 22 of which came in the first half when the game was still close. And he had a game of 26 points against Thurmond in the Finals, as well as a clinhing game of 23 points (in which he wiped the floor with Thurmond) while his "leading scorer" teammate Greer scored 15 points on 5-16 shooting.
    That's one game, he only averaged 21.7 points in the '67 playoffs and why are you cherry picking 1 single game? Such a clown.

    I am talking about his finals performance and overall playoff scoring performance and you want to cherry pick 1 game. And as usual you need feel the need to belittle Wilt's teammates and in this case Greer, which is laughable since he was the one who took over the scoring when Wilt folded as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Oh, and just the season before, he hung a 46 point game on Russell in the clinching loss in the EDF's. And earlier in that same season, he pasted Thurmond with a 45 point game (outscoring Nate by a 45-13 margin.)
    Again you're cherry picking single games, you moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Rick Barry, who led the NBA in scoring that year, at 35.6 ppg, said it best...Chamberlain "let him win" because he simply wasn't interested in winning yet another scoring title. EVERYONE in the league KNEW that if Chamberlain wanted to score...he would. Oh, and as always, he had the high scoring game of that '67 season, of 58 points (on 26-34 shooting), just as he did EVERY season in the decade of the 60's. And, the next year he had games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points...despite "only" averaging 24.3 ppg in the season.
    A single scoring game doesn't mean shit, and all these 50 and 60 points game by Wilt, yet Wilt never had a 60 point scoring game in the playoffs. Big surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    He was even leading the league in scoring as late as the 69-70 season, at 32.2 ppg (on an always efficient .579 FG%)...when he blew out his knee.

    So, please, no more nonsense about Wilt's "scoring" in the post-season.
    No more "nonsense" because you just cherry picked a couple of games? Such a stupid clown. Wilt the statpadder couldn't do what he did in the regular season. Both his FG% and scoring went down.

  10. #55
    NBA Legend LAZERUSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Hakeem's numbers are inflated because his team's were eliminated so often in the first round and against inferior defensive centers.

    Wilt's numbers drop because he led his teams deeper into the playoffs,a nd up against Russell EIGHT times.

    Think about this...

    If Chamberlain had had the "luxury" of losing in the first round as often Hakeem did, or without running into the greatest defensive center so often, his playoffs would have stoped with seasons of 38.7, 37.0, 37.0, 38.6 etc. Alos his FG%'s would have been considerably higher.

    So, let's quickly dismiss with the Hakeem-Wilt comparisons.

    As for Hakeem's "help"...in his '94 run, his TEAM did not face any more talent than what he had. Ewing had no more talent on his squad than what Hakeem had on his. His second leading scorer in that Finals averaged 17.7 ppg on a .368 FG%.

    And, how about his '95 Finals, when Hakeem's TS% was WAY less than not only his own TEAMMATES, but was blown out of the water by Shaq's. Hakeem shot considerably less than the post-season FG%, eFG%, and TS%, while his teammates were well above in all of them. And meanwhile Shaq's were below in TS%, and Shaq was light years above it in TS%.

    Had Shaq shot-jacked 29 times per game, like Hakeem did, instead of the 19 that he actually took, he would have averaged 40 mppg in that Finals.


    Hakeem's first title came in a playoffs without MJ (and the 55-27 Bulls SURELY would have repeated with MJ). And his teamates overwhelmed Shaq's in the '95 Finals, or else he would have then beeon ringless in his career.

    Hakeem...the most over-rated player on ISH.

  11. #56
    NBA rookie of the year
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Hakeem's numbers are inflated because his team's were eliminated so often in the first round and against inferior defensive centers.

    Wilt's numbers drop because he led his teams deeper into the playoffs,a nd up against Russell EIGHT times.
    Bogus, nothing but pure lies. First of all, Wilt never faced anywhere close the amount of defensive schemes, double and triple teams and Olajuwon bot scored more in the playoffs and he did in on better FG%.

    Wilt in total played 15 more playoff games and even if you compare their final scoring average Hakeem is far superior. Hakeem lead all of his 3 rosters in terms of scoring when he played in the finals.


    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Think about this...

    If Chamberlain had had the "luxury" of losing in the first round as often Hakeem did, or without running into the greatest defensive center so often, his playoffs would have stoped with seasons of 38.7, 37.0, 37.0, 38.6 etc. Alos his FG%'s would have been considerably higher.
    Oh, shut the **** up.
    This is the biggest BS rant ever. Wilt's main competition was undersized Russell without any scoring skills. Thurmond was just as bad in terms of scoring and Wilt barely faced any double and triple teams, you clown. You have yet not posted any video proof of these so called swarming defensive teams that Wilt supposedly faced. Wilt's FG% would be lower in modern era, he would have been doubled and tripled way more often and defensive schemes would be an other object to face as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    So, let's quickly dismiss with the Hakeem-Wilt comparisons.
    I just did it for you, Wilt statpadded in the regular season while Olajuwon beasted in the finals.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    As for Hakeem's "help"...in his '94 run, his TEAM did not face any more talent than what he had. Ewing had no more talent on his squad than what Hakeem had on his. His second leading scorer in that Finals averaged 17.7 ppg on a .368 FG%.

    Haha, this is so stupid.
    So you whine about Starks FG% in the finals, what should Hakeem say then? Hakeem's second leading scorer was Maxwell who averaged 13.4 points on .365 FG% in the finals. You're so god damn stupid.

    And Ewing also had Harper who absued the Rockets big time in the finals and Harper averaged 16.4 points on 46% shooting.

    And is that wouldn't be enough, lets compare Olajuwon and Ewing in that series;

    Olajuwon: 26.9 points (50% shooting), 9.1 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.6 steals and 3.9 blocks

    Ewing: 18.9 points (36% shooting), 12.4 rebounds, 1.7 assists 1.3 steals and 4.3 blocks.


    Ewing was outplayed big time.

    [QUOTE=LAZERUSS]
    And, how about his '95 Finals, when Hakeem's TS% was WAY less than not only his own TEAMMATES, but was blown out of the water by Shaq's. Hakeem shot considerably less than the post-season FG%, eFG%, and TS%, while his teammates were well above in all of them. And meanwhile Shaq's were below in TS%, and Shaq was light years above it in TS%.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Had Shaq shot-jacked 29 times per game, like Hakeem did, instead of the 19 that he actually took, he would have averaged 40 mppg in that Finals.
    Haha, you clown.
    I've destroyed you so many times regarding this and still you try to challenge me on this. Shaq struggled big time in the '95 finals with fouls and turnovers, Shaq averaged more than 5 turnovers per game and he holds the center record for most turnovers per game in a 4 games series. He got clearly outplayed in 2 of the games and one was a tie at best. Hakeem outplayed Shaq with no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    Hakeem's first title came in a playoffs without MJ (and the 55-27 Bulls SURELY would have repeated with MJ). And his teamates overwhelmed Shaq's in the '95 Finals, or else he would have then beeon ringless in his career.

    Hakeem...the most over-rated player on ISH.
    Oh, so Hakeem who had a winning record against MJ would "surely" get beaten. And Olajuwon who outplayed Shaq in '95 would suddenly be ringless somehow..

    Wilt was the one who dropped big time in the finals and in the playoffs, Wilt is the same guy who never lead a champion team in scoring in the playoffs. All this bogus about his massive scoring games and yet the fool was beaten by Russell year after year 'til he gave up the scoring to others. Hakeem, Shaq and Kareem showed up in the playoffs, Wilt shrunk..

  12. #57
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    I was tempted not to come in because this is becoming one of "these" threads but
    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    He was still a very good player until his last game of the '70 Finals. After that he played a total of 11 games.

    Having said that, his role in the '70 Finals...as a "third wheel" was about what he should have been in the '69 Finals...instead of shot-jacking his team right out of the Finals.

    BTW, he really didn't "retire." He was forced to quit by Sharman. And who could argue with that? The Lakers replaced Baylor with Jim McMillian, and then immeditely ran off 33 straight wins, and an eventual title.
    Regarding the bolded, are you sure? What's your source? As far as I'm aware they talked and the possibility of Elgin not starting was broached, but I haven't heard that angle on it before.

  13. #58
    Dick Van Arsdale pudman13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointguard
    Yeah, if you go back and look at some of those games Hondo's looks like he has a different fuel tank, he guarded people like you would sometimes see Mugsy Bogues did. He just kept coming at the offense. He was really unique in that sense. I recall reading that he had an enlarged heart or oversized lungs - forgot which but he was really different.
    There's a video out on youtube with Satch Sanders and Sam Jones watching a Celtics playoff game and commenting on it. When they see Havlicek they laugh about how he could "run all day." He was just an amazing athlete. If you watch clips of him at any point in his career, including in the mid-70s when he was old by NBA standards, he was one of the best ever at moving without the ball and finding an open spot on the court. You won't be able to count how many 10-foot jumpers he makes. He always outran his opponents.

  14. #59
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    I think some ISH posters need medical HOF "Help" ...

    I see that due to some perverse personal feelings some posters try to attack others whatever the topic and mater is, try to throw personal insults at every possible way.

  15. #60
    NBA rookie of the year
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    Default Re: Wilt's HOF "Help" In The Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by julizaver
    I think some ISH posters need medical HOF "Help" ...

    I see that due to some perverse personal feelings some posters try to attack others whatever the topic and mater is, try to throw personal insults at every possible way.
    I'm putting your head in my butthole.

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