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Old 09-04-2013, 10:48 AM   #16
Iceman#44
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Wilt Chamberlain 1967 Playoff Stats:

21.7 ppg (2nd), 29.1 trb (1st), 9.0 ast (1st), .579 FG% (1st)


And we dont know the Blocks average.....Wilt=MDE


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Old 09-04-2013, 10:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
A record shattering role player ... Zeus himself would get owned 1 on 1 against Wilt

Yea Zeus' team would still win. Wilt wasn't much of a winner.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Yea Zeus' team would still win. Wilt wasn't much of a winner.

Good thing Lebron teamed up with Wade.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

It's funny how one poster start tread like this searching attention ... cheers for grabbing mine at the moment BTW.
And I wonder at how others try to answer with stats, providing proven facts against the absurd claim of someone who is probably joking and laughing at it (if he is in possession of mind off course)
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Quote:
Originally Posted by julizaver
It's funny how one poster start tread like this searching attention ... cheers for grabbing mine at the moment BTW.
And I wonder at how others try to answer with stats, providing proven facts against the absurd claim of someone who is probably joking and laughing at it (if he is in possession of mind off course)

Learn english, you "seek attention", you can't "search attention".
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:40 PM   #21
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

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Originally Posted by Psileas
Role player. Sure, after all, he was only the leading rebounder, the leading passer, the leading shotblocker, the defensive anchor, the leading FG% taker and the leading double-team receiver of his team in the playoffs and the Finals (I won't even mention regular season).
I guess 1987 Magic was also the "role player" to James Worthy's "star player" in those playoffs and 1986 Bird was the "role player" to McHale's "star player" in those Finals.
And let's not even get to Bill Russell.
Yeah, he can't be the #1 scoring option on a team. Wilt is known to be a scorer primarily the scorer that scored 100 in a game and averaged 50 a game.

Neither Russell or Magic are known as scorers, so it doesn't matter.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

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Yeah, he can't be the #1 scoring option on a team. Wilt is known to be a scorer primarily the scorer that scored 100 in a game and averaged 50 a game.

Neither Russell or Magic are known as scorers, so it doesn't matter.

1967 Wilt, regular season or playoffs, wasn't that scorer any more, so it shouldn't matter for him either. That's Wilt the all-around center, which he was throughout the whole year.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
1967 Wilt, regular season or playoffs, wasn't that scorer any more, so it shouldn't matter for him either. That's Wilt the all-around center, which he was throughout the whole year.
Yeah, cause you can't win with him as the scorer.


































next
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Slide
Yeah, cause you can't win with him as the scorer.


































next

Chamberlain's playoff record when scoring 50+ points... a perfect 4-0.

Three of those were in "must-win" games, too.

Chamberlain's record when scoring 45+ points in a Finals game... a perfect 1-0.



Next...

Last edited by LAZERUSS : 09-05-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:20 AM   #25
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

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Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
Chamberlain's playoff record when scoring 50+ points... a perfect 4-0.

Three of those were in "must-win" games, too.

Chamberlain's record when scoring 45+ points in a Finals game... a perfect 1-0.



Next...
There is a reason why he was hardly ever able to score those amount of points because he isn't a great scorer.

You can't win with him as your primary scorer.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:26 AM   #26
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Slide
There is a reason why he was hardly ever able to score those amount of points because he isn't a great scorer.

You can't win with him as your primary scorer.

Jordan had eight games of 50+ in the post-season (and went 6-2 in them), Chamberlain had four (going 4-0)...

now give me a list of your other "great" scorers who had more games of 50+ than those two...

(BTW, Kobe was 0-1 in his ONLY one)
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

This is for Eletric Slide's benefit...

Quote:
Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/9 FG, 25 rebounds and 1 assist. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points on 5/11 FG, 29 rebounds and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points on 12/20 FG 14 rebounds and 3 assists. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points on 4/11 FG, 26 rebounds, 11 assists and 12 blocks (unofficial quad). Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points on 11/18 FG, 27 rebounds, 6 assists and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/10 FG, 21 rebounds and 10 blocks. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points on 7/12 FG,18 rebounds and 9 assists. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points on 4/6, 31 rebounds and 8 assists. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points on 10/17 FG, 28 rebounds, 4 asissts and 8 blocks. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

The article about this series sad that Wilt blocked Chicago from playoffs after blocking 49 shots in 7 games.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points on 2/2 FG, 22 rebounds, 7 assists. Thurmond had 9 points on 2/9 FG, 18 or 15 rebounds and 5 assists in 32 minutes in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.

24-11 W-L record

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:38 AM   #28
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

And how about this one...

Quote:
The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games (23-60), while Wilt, himself, shot .545 (18-33).

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.

Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

Next....
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:55 AM   #30
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Default Re: Wilt was only able to win titles as a role player

tl;dr

Wilt never won a title being the primary scorer on the team.
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