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Old 09-04-2013, 05:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
Comparing the 5 greatest Gourds ever

1. Pumpkin
2. Squash
3. cucumber
4. luffa
5. melon

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Old 09-04-2013, 05:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

Fixed Magic's and Oscar's Finals TS%. I should have known something was wrong with Magic's number...
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

What this tells me:

MJ and West get even better against better competition, in more intense / clutch / pressure filled situations under the brightest spotlight.

Magic and Kobe play the exact same regardless. Except Kobe puts up the same averages on much lower efficiency.

Oscar's production dips off like Wilt in the playoffs when things get tougher and more intense.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
What this tells me:

MJ and West get even better against better competition, in more intense / clutch / pressure filled situations under the brightest spotlight.

Magic and Kobe play the exact same regardless.

Oscar's production dips off like Wilt in the playoffs when things get tougher and more intense.

Not a huge fan of either guy (Russell and West are my favorites from the era), but both were in the East with Russell, and rarely made the Finals until he was out of the league. Oscar made it twice total, both way past his prime (71 and 74) so his numbers are skewed, while Wilt made it out of the East once (67) while Russ was still in the league (64, 69 he was in the West). Big Bill had the East on lockdown.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
West is my favorite. I'm not talking strictly about Finals, I'm even talking his dip in production play in the playoffs.

These numbers tell me who pads in the regular season against average comp. Who balls consistently, no matter the condition.

And then it tells me who RAISES their game on GOAT type shit when competition is better, and situations are more pressure filled. This is called the HEART gene.

MJ and Mr Logo

GOATS gonna GOAT

lol maybe.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by fpliii
Not a huge fan of either guy (Russell and West are my favorites from the era), but both were in the East with Russell, and rarely made the Finals until he was out of the league. Oscar made it twice total, both way past his prime (71 and 74) so his numbers are skewed, while Wilt made it out of the East once (67) while Russ was still in the league (64, 69 he was in the West). Big Bill had the East on lockdown.
West is my favorite. I'm not talking strictly about Finals, I'm even talking his dip in production play in the playoffs.

Oscar and Wilt, the fugazy / meaningless stat padders. If it wasn't for his 2 rings, LeBron would almost be in this category of loser too.

These numbers and stats tell me who pads in the regular season against average comp. Who balls consistently, no matter the condition. Even if they struggle to get their normal productivity (Kobe) ... he still at least provides it. Which takes mental toughness.

And then it tells me who RAISES their game on GOAT type shit when competition is better, and situations are more pressure filled. This is called the HEART gene. Superhero shit.

MJ and Mr Logo

GOATS gonna GOAT
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
West is my favorite. I'm not talking strictly about Finals, I'm even talking his dip in production play in the playoffs.

Oscar and Wilt, the fugazy / meaningless stat padders. If it wasn't for his 2 rings, LeBron would almost be in this category of loser too.

These numbers and stats tell me who pads in the regular season against average comp. Who balls consistently, no matter the condition. Even if they struggle to get their normal productivity (Kobe) ... he still at least provides it. Which takes mental toughness.

And then it tells me who RAISES their game on GOAT type shit when competition is better, and situations are more pressure filled. This is called the HEART gene. Superhero shit.

MJ and Mr Logo

GOATS gonna GOAT

Why'd you delete and repost instead of editing in the comments about LeBron/Kobe? Anyhow you're not going to get an argument out of me, I don't care too much about either guy.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

Wade needs to be on this list instead of Oscar. Hell, maybe even Drexler. Those two should be thrown on here regardless IMO.

Even if they're not considered their generations best guard or SG. They need to be on here. Magic's a PG, Oscar was a Point Forward ... keep it to SGs.

The five best:

MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

47 of Oscar's 86 career Playoff games came when he was 32 years old or older. There is also a 3 year prime gap of no playoff time since team didn't make the playoffs from '68-'70.

Oscar in the Playoffs in his 20's: 29.7 PPG, 7.0 TRB%, 29.9 AST%, 56.6 TS%
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
47 of Oscar's 86 career Playoff games came when he was 32 years old or older.
Isn't that his fault for not getting his team there more frequently when he was younger?

Kobe didn't get the Lakers to the playoffs in 2005 because he was injured.
Wade didn't get the Heat to the playoffs in 2008 because he was injured.
MJ didn't get the Wizards to the playoffs in 2002 because he was 39 injured.

What's Oscar's excuse?
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
Isn't that his fault for not getting his team there more frequently when he was younger?

Kobe didn't get the Lakers to the playoffs in 2005 because he was injured.
Wade didn't get the Heat to the playoffs in 2008 because he was injured.
MJ didn't get the Wizards to the playoffs in 2002 because he was 39 injured.

What's Oscar's excuse?

Going against Russell (and to a lesser extent Wilt) in the East almost every in the playoffs.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Going against Russell (and to a lesser extent Wilt) in the East almost every in the playoffs.
Excuses. Those other guys faced elite teams and players in their own conference.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

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Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
Excuses. Those other guys faced elite teams and players in their own conference.

Excuses? Those other guys didn't go up against a strong GOAT candidate and unanimous GOAT defender in Russell.

Here's his record each season:

1961 - misses playoffs
1962 - loses to Pistons
1963 - beats Nationals, loses to Celtics (Russell)
1964 - beats 76ers, loses to Celtics (Russell)
1965 - loses to 76ers (Wilt)
1966 - loses to Celtics (Russell)
1967 - loses to 76ers (Wilt)
1968 - misses playoffs
1969 - misses playoffs
1970 - misses playoffs
1971 - beats Warriors (Thurmond), beats Lakers (West+Wilt), beats Bullets (Unseld)
1972 - beats Warriors (Thurmond), loses to Lakers (West+Wilt)
1973 - loses to Warriors (Thurmond)
1974 - beats Lakers, beats Bulls, loses to Celtics (Havlicek+Cowens)

The bolded years were probably his prime seasons.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

Kobe does not belong there.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Comparing the 5 Greatest Guards Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
What this tells me:

MJ and West get even better against better competition, in more intense / clutch / pressure filled situations under the brightest spotlight.

Magic and Kobe play the exact same regardless. Except Kobe puts up the same averages on much lower efficiency.

Oscar's production dips off like Wilt in the playoffs when things get tougher and more intense.

I have no idea as to what trb% and ast% are, and could care less. Using regular stats pts, rbs, asts

MJ
Regular season 30.1/ 6.2/ 5.3
Playoffs 33.4/ 6.4/ 5.7

Basically all MJ did was take more shots in the playoffs (25.1) than he did in the regular season (22.9). His rebounds and assists were for all intents and purposes the same.

Magic

Regular season 19.5/7.2/11.2
Playoffs 19.5/ 7.7/12.3

MJ didn't get any better in the playoffs any more than Magic did unless you count taking 2 more shots per game as the sole criterion for "getting better".
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