Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Dallas Mavericks Forum

Dallas Mavericks Forum Dallas Mavericks message board - mavs message board - dallas mavericks fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-19-2013, 09:33 PM   #31
CavaliersFTW
3-time NBA All-Star
 
CavaliersFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,054
CavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pudman13
Dirk seems very quick to me, but of course there's something about the nautre of old-time video that makes people look slower than they were, so Pettit might have been quicker than I think. I think that's one reason people don't appreciate Baylor like they should, and it's why 70s Havlicek appears on film to be a better player than 60s Havlicek (when, of course, he's basically the same, just in a slightly differentrole.) Again, I haven't seen as much video of Pettit as I'd like. There definitely is something to "know your limitations," i.e. if he's not a great dribbler he figures out what else he needs to do. Not sure about the Duncan comparisons--Duncan's an inside player and doesn't rely as much on the outside shot, and also is a very good passer and shot blocker, and, of course, we have no block data from that era so who knows about that. But yes, Duncan rarely dribbles and is an expert at positioning himself.

Another thing in Pettit's favor is that he was still playing at an all-star level in '63-'64 and in fact had an improved FG% as his career went along, which to me indicates a high basektball IQ and an ability to adapt.
I did touch on this earlier in the week when I discovered through studying the shot clocks in stock film of his that even the footage that appeared to NOT be in 'slow motion' was indeed, being played back much slower than real time. Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb2lpbHuCtQ

unadjusted series of clips start from the beginning, followed by the exact same series of clips that have been shot clock corrected at 1:15.

Also Pettit was indeed adaptable, for example when Bill Russell came into the league Russell caught Bob Pettit's hook shot and Pettit retired the shot immediately after that. If something didn't work he dropped it, and he was one of the hardest workers. He practiced 5-6 hours a day every day during his career.
CavaliersFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 09:33 PM   #32
pudman13
Dick Van Arsdale
 
pudman13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 205
pudman13 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inactive
His career shooting efficiency is about the same as Duncan's, and Garnett's, slightly lower than Pau's. He just shoots more 3s.

There's a big qualitative difference between 45% and 50% (Duncan and Garnett), but yes, the 3's do make the overall efficiency somewhat closer. I'm not sure this is the place to have this discussion, but when you have a guy who can rebound like Love, I hate the thought of him taking all of those bombs rather than playing an inside game.
pudman13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 09:46 PM   #33
Inactive
Local High School Star
 
Inactive's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,103
Inactive is considered somewhat coolInactive is considered somewhat coolInactive is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pudman13
There's a big qualitative difference between 45% and 50% (Duncan and Garnett), but yes, the 3's do make the overall efficiency somewhat closer.
His 2p% is typically around 47-48%, Duncan and Garnett are usually around 50%. It's a difference, but not a big one, and he more than makes up for it with his FT, and 3pt superiority.

His weakness is really not efficiency, or offensive impact. He's just bad on defense, better than average but not great at creating for himself, and injury prone. When you need a big bucket, or a stop, you can't rely on Love, but he will do work over the course of a game.

Quote:
I'm not sure this is the place to have this discussion, but when you have a guy who can rebound like Love, I hate the thought of him taking all of those bombs rather than playing an inside game.
I think the spacing he provides for Pek is much more important than the occasional offensive rebound.
Inactive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 11:10 PM   #34
pudman13
Dick Van Arsdale
 
pudman13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 205
pudman13 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW

unadjusted series of clips start from the beginning, followed by the exact same series of clips that have been shot clock corrected at 1:15.

.

Wow. This really does put things into perspective, and I hadn't seen it before. Youtube is weird. I often check your youtube channel and for some reason this one doesn't show up. It has happened before. You have a video on the '63-'64 (i think) Lakers that I discovered by accident a few days ago. It also doesn't show up if I search your channel.

An off-topic question, if you're willing to answer it... I know the sources of almost all of the dunks on your 60s mix, but two of the ones that elude me are the Havlicek dunks. Where did those come from?
pudman13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 11:19 PM   #35
CavaliersFTW
3-time NBA All-Star
 
CavaliersFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,054
CavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pudman13
Wow. This really does put things into perspective, and I hadn't seen it before. Youtube is weird. I often check your youtube channel and for some reason this one doesn't show up. It has happened before. You have a video on the '63-'64 (i think) Lakers that I discovered by accident a few days ago. It also doesn't show up if I search your channel.

An off-topic question, if you're willing to answer it... I know the sources of almost all of the dunks on your 60s mix, but two of the ones that elude me are the Havlicek dunks. Where did those come from?
It isn't Youtube, it's me. A lot of videos on my Youtube channel are deliberately made unlisted by me, for various reasons. You should make playlists and add my videos too them so you can always find them because chances are I will eventually unlist something (to replace it, to avoid copyright, etc). In the dunk video, only 1 time does John Havlicek dunk (the color clip) and that is from the 1963-64 Lakers documentary. The other #17 Celtic that dunks is not Havlicek, it is actually Gene Conley from the 1950's. I initially mistook him for Havlicek but it is not Havlicek.

Last edited by CavaliersFTW : 10-19-2013 at 11:23 PM.
CavaliersFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 11:49 PM   #36
pudman13
Dick Van Arsdale
 
pudman13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 205
pudman13 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
It isn't Youtube, it's me. A lot of videos on my Youtube channel are deliberately made unlisted by me, for various reasons. You should make playlists and add my videos too them so you can always find them because chances are I will eventually unlist something (to replace it, to avoid copyright, etc). In the dunk video, only 1 time does John Havlicek dunk (the color clip) and that is from the 1963-64 Lakers documentary. The other #17 Celtic that dunks is not Havlicek, it is actually Gene Conley from the 1950's. I initially mistook him for Havlicek but it is not Havlicek.

Thanks for the info. I'm a youtube idiot, but I really should start saving some of the stuff I return to often. A lot of great 60s NBA games have disappeared, for example, and all of those half hour year-summary documentaries are priceless.

I found a 1960 Conley dunk on efootage...Conley must be the earliest NBA dunker to exist on film.
pudman13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 11:55 PM   #37
CavaliersFTW
3-time NBA All-Star
 
CavaliersFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,054
CavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pudman13
Thanks for the info. I'm a youtube idiot, but I really should start saving some of the stuff I return to often. A lot of great 60s NBA games have disappeared, for example, and all of those half hour year-summary documentaries are priceless.

I found a 1960 Conley dunk on efootage...Conley must be the earliest NBA dunker to exist on film.
His dunk on Bob Pettit? That's a nice one, Conley I've learned was a great all around athlete, he was a pitcher in the MLB (won a championship in baseball with the Braves I believe too) and of course won at least one championship with the Celtics in the NBA though I'm not sure how many seasons the Celtics kept him because he was just a roleplayer in the NBA. He was also the state Champion high jumper when he was in high school. He's not the first NBA dunker on film though. I've never made an effort to go back as far as I can to find the oldest known NBA dunks on film but I'm sure there are at least a few dunks from the early 1950's on film because there are tons of NCAA dunks from the 50's. I just typically don't watch too much 1950's NBA footage.

Last edited by CavaliersFTW : 10-19-2013 at 11:57 PM.
CavaliersFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #38
Sheik1287
The lob, the jam!!!
 
Sheik1287's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Out of this world
Posts: 238
Sheik1287 has not been impressing people
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Dirk yes Love no.
I feel the same.
Sheik1287 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:07 AM   #39
pudman13
Dick Van Arsdale
 
pudman13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 205
pudman13 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

It's not on film, but George Yardley claims his final basket of '58, the one that gave him 2000 points for the year, was a dunk. Russell came into the league a year earlier, and he dunked. Most of what I've read insists that people who could dunk before that chose not to because it was considered an insult and there would be physical retaliation. My dad grew up watching basketball, including those NBA barnstorming games, and he says he never saw it until Russell, though it might have been something that he wouldn't have taken notice of and remembered.

You know what time period of the NBA (and ABA, for that matter) is way under-represented on video? The early 1970s. There must be a bunch of games out there somewhere, but hardly any of them ever get shown, even playoff games. I wish itunes would add more to their Hardwood Classics series. I'd watch anything from the early 80s or earlier if it was made available.
pudman13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:10 AM   #40
R.I.P.
NBA lottery pick
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,602
R.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterR.I.P. is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Posted Oct 19 2013 10:10PM

GREENSBORO, N.C. (AP)

Dallas forward Dirk Nowitzki did not play, getting a night of rest despite occasional "We want Dirk!" chants from some of the 7,678 fans at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Seems Bobcats fans like watching Dirk more than their own team and new star Al Jefferson, who also DNP, but received no chants. Just move them to Seattle already.
R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:11 AM   #41
CavaliersFTW
3-time NBA All-Star
 
CavaliersFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,054
CavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterCavaliersFTW is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pudman13
It's not on film, but George Yardley claims his final basket of '58, the one that gave him 2000 points for the year, was a dunk. Russell came into the league a year earlier, and he dunked. Most of what I've read insists that people who could dunk before that chose not to because it was considered an insult and there would be physical retaliation. My dad grew up watching basketball, including those NBA barnstorming games, and he says he never saw it until Russell, though it might have been something that he wouldn't have taken notice of and remembered.

You know what time period of the NBA (and ABA, for that matter) is way under-represented on video? The early 1970s. There must be a bunch of games out there somewhere, but hardly any of them ever get shown, even playoff games. I wish itunes would add more to their Hardwood Classics series. I'd watch anything from the early 80s or earlier if it was made available.
They don't exist most everything was either not recorded at all (more so in the 50's and 60's) or, even if they were recorded they were eventually all wiped and recorded over during that era so film could be recycled and re-used. The NBA didn't actively save broadcasts for posterity until sometime into the Bird and Magic era, that's why everything is so underrepresented from prior to that period of time. Those era's aren't deliberately being treated as less important and therefore not shown, film content and broadcasts from back then literally just doesn't exist anymore. That's why it was such a big deal when the final game of the 1973 NY Knicks vs Lakers Finals was discovered on someone's private 8mm film stash or w/e. The NBA certainly didn't have a copy, neither did any of the networks that broadcast the game.
CavaliersFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:17 AM   #42
pudman13
Dick Van Arsdale
 
pudman13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 205
pudman13 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

What a tragedy. It's like all of those classic British TV shows from the 60s, lost forever.
pudman13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 08:57 AM   #43
pudman13
Dick Van Arsdale
 
pudman13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 205
pudman13 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
In the dunk video, only 1 time does John Havlicek dunk (the color clip)

RE: Havlicek: I just learned an interesting piece of trivia about him. His very first NBA basket was a dunk. He was hoping to make his last one a dunk too but in his final game he never got the opportunity, even though as the game neared the end his teammates kept trying to get him fast breaks.

Last edited by pudman13 : 10-23-2013 at 01:32 PM.
pudman13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 11:47 AM   #44
Dr.J4ever
Justice4 the ABA
 
Dr.J4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,318
Dr.J4ever has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.I.P.
Kevin Love is the very definition of empty stats. So far he has had almost no positive impact on his teammates and therefore team performances. Minnesota should realize that they are in a great and unique situation that their real star/draw is Ricky Rubio, which allows them to trade their best player Love without the usual backlash. Love has acted poorly toward the Wolves before. If they are a 0.500 team at the all-star break IŽd trade him in a hardbeat. Butler, the rights to Mirotic, CharlotteŽs #1 and Boozer for Kevin Love. Sold.
I agree with your "empty stats" comment. Until he can make his team win, stats can be meaningless. Ex. Watch my sixers green light evan turner this year. He will produce "empty stats" cause the sixers suck.
Dr.J4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 01:31 PM   #45
LeGOAT
Banned
 
LeGOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lebron's closet
Posts: 1,775
LeGOAT is starting to rub some people the wrong way
Default Re: Are Dirk Nowitzki highlights 'impressive' to watch? How about Kevin Love?

Lmao as if Love is on the same level as Nowitzki
LeGOAT is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy