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Old 10-25-2013, 09:46 AM   #16
Iceman#44
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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If it meant that much, why doesn't Stojakovic stand out more in the Euroleague?
You may only say that Peja started his NBA career as a bench player, but then again, why doesn't Danilovic stand out more? Where is Kirilenko's scoring title? And why didn't Dominique Wilkins, who participated in 2 Euroleagues, win any Euroleague scoring titles? How did someone as unknown as Joe Arlauckas surpass him? Why didn't McDaniel or Tom Chambers or Roy Tarpley win any?


Let'see: we got actually 5 players who were Euroleague scoring champion 1 year and then they play in NBA the next year.

Peja Stojakovic:
97-98 (Euroleague Scoring champion): 20.9 ppg
98-99 (Nba): 8.4 ppg
TOT: -12.5

Predrag Danilovic:
94-95 (Euroleague scoring champ): 22.1 ppg
95-96 (Nba): 13.4 ppg
TOT: -8.7

Charles Smith
04-05 (Euroleague scoring champ): 20.6 ppg
05-06 (NBA): 3.6 ppg
TOT: -17.0

Juan Carlos Navarro
06-07 (Euroleague scoring champ): 16.7 ppg
07-08 (NBA): 10.9 ppg
TOT: -5.8

Linas Kleiza
09-10 (Euroleague scoring champ): 17.1 ppg
10-11 (NBA): 11.2 ppg
TOT: -5.9

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Old 10-25-2013, 09:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman#44



Let'see: we got actually 5 players who were Euroleague scoring champion 1 year and then they play in NBA the next year.

Peja Stojakovic:
97-98 (Euroleague Scoring champion): 20.9 ppg
98-99 (Nba): 8.4 ppg
TOT: -12.5

Predrag Danilovic:
94-95 (Euroleague scoring champ): 22.1 ppg
95-96 (Nba): 13.4 ppg
TOT: -8.7

Charles Smith
04-05 (Euroleague scoring champ): 20.6 ppg
05-06 (NBA): 3.6 ppg
TOT: -17.0

Juan Carlos Navarro
06-07 (Euroleague scoring champ): 16.7 ppg
07-08 (NBA): 10.9 ppg
TOT: -5.8

Linas Kleiza
09-10 (Euroleague scoring champ): 17.1 ppg
10-11 (NBA): 11.2 ppg
TOT: -5.9


This is obviously not what my comment centered on. It's the bolded stuff: Why did some of them become useful NBA players and others got scrub roles? If the NBA vs Euroleague relationship was as linear as you make it sound, why didn't double figure NBA scorers stand out in the Euroleague more than NBA scrubs/bench warmers?
To put it another way, there's a big difference between a -17 and a -5 margin.
Not to mention, again, that multiple players with NBA impact failed to do what NBA scrubs or NBA rejects managed to do.

Last edited by Psileas : 10-25-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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It's the bolded stuff: Why did some of them become useful NBA players and others got scrub roles? If the NBA vs Euroleague relationship was as linear as you make it sound, why didn't double figure NBA scorers stand out in the Euroleague more than NBA scrubs/bench warmers?
To put it another way, there's a big difference between a -17 and a -5 margin.

Out of those 5:

Stojakovic was very young, if he play during his prime in Euroleague he would average 28-30 ppg. Hell, he scores 21 ppg and was just on rookie Nba level

Danilovic comes in the NBA when he was Top 3 player in Europe, the year he won the Euroleague scoring title he won also his 3rd consecutive italian championship while scoring more than 27 ppg if i remember exactly. At his peak, he was a solid NBA player. We have seen both peak Danilovic in NBA and peak Danilovic in Europe. I love the guy, too.

Smith: well, he was just not too good to play more NBA minutes.
He try multiple times, before/after Europe, but he never made it.

Kleiza comes at his peak as a Euroleague scoring champ, he was on a very bad team and he manage somehow to score 10 ppg...still, a solid NBA bench player, nothing more.

Navarro instead was a top player in Europe, i say top 5, and i personally believe that his style of play very well fits with NBA style of play. Thats he still have a good season but not losing just about 6-7 ppg from his former eurloeague champ year
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman#44
Out of those 5:

Stojakovic was very young, if he play during his prime in Euroleague he would average 28-30 ppg. Hell, he scores 21 ppg and was just on rookie Nba level

Danilovic comes in the NBA when he was Top 3 player in Europe, the year he won the Euroleague scoring title he won also his 3rd consecutive italian championship while scoring more than 27 ppg if i remember exactly. At his peak, he was a solid NBA player. We have seen both peak Danilovic in NBA and peak Danilovic in Europe. I love the guy, too.

Smith: well, he was just not too good to play more NBA minutes.
He try multiple times, before/after Europe, but he never made it.

Kleiza comes at his peak as a Euroleague scoring champ, he was on a very bad team and he manage somehow to score 10 ppg...still, a solid NBA bench player, nothing more.

Navarro instead was a top player in Europe, i say top 5, and i personally believe that his style of play very well fits with NBA style of play. Thats he still have a good season but not losing just about 6-7 ppg from his former eurloeague champ year

In other words, leading the Euroleague (and any other league likewise) in scoring doesn't mean you are either the best player or the best scorer. Neither is it any kind of a guarantee that you'll succeed or fail in the NBA.
I'll leave it at that.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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In other words, leading the Euroleague (and any other league likewise) in scoring doesn't mean you are either the best player or the best scorer. Neither is it any kind of a guarantee that you'll succeed or fail in the NBA.
I'll leave it at that.


Of course, leading any league in scoring mean that you are one of the best of that league. You cannot be a scrub and leading at the same time your league in scoring.

Also, about X-Man and Tarpley: Tarpley actually destroys European Cup competition, leading the league both in scoring (26 ppg) AND rebounds (15 rbs) during 1993 season. Next year he average 21 ppg+13 rbs playing for Olympiakos. And this was 3 years after his last NBA game.
He come back in the NBA for 94-95 season, scoring 12 ppg.


Xavier McDaniel? He was 34 years old, coming from an 8 ppg season with Boston. Then he scores still 18.4 ppg+8 rebounds in Euroleague, #5 in boards x game.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:03 PM   #21
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman#44
Some interesting facts about the Euroleague Scoring leaders: WHAT THEY DID IN THE NBA?



Nikos Galis (2x Euroleague top scorer): No Nba
Zdravko Radulovic: No Nba
Predrag Danilovic: 13.4 ppg in 95-96 season, 12.5 ppg in 96-97 season.
Carlton Myers: No Nba
Joe Arlauckas: 3.8 ppg in 1987-88 season
Predrag Stojakovic: Nba player from 1998 to 2011, 17.0 ppg career average, 24.2 ppg in 03-04 season
Ibrahim Kutluay: 5 games in 04-05 season, 12 minutes overall, no points.
Miljan Goljovic: No Nba
Alphonso Ford (2x): 2.7 ppg in 93-94, 3.8 in 94-95
Milos Vujanic: No Nba
Lynn Greer: 4.1 ppg in 06-07 season
Charles Smith: 142 games with 5.1 ppg career average, best 7.4 ppg in 01-02 season
Drew Nicholas: No Nba
Juan Carlos Navarro: 10.9 ppg in 07-08 seaosn
Marc Salyers: No Nba
Igor Rakocevic: 1.9 ppg in 02-03 season
Linas Kleiza: 7 Nba season, 8.7 ppg career average, 11.2 ppg with Toronto in 10-11 season.
Bo McCalebb: No Nba
Bobby Brown: 113 games, 5.1 career average



So, from 91-92 season to 12-13 season, we got 16 players who won the Euroleague Scoring Title:


1 (Stojakovic) was an All-Star, with 17.0 ppg career average and a best season with 24.2 ppg.
2 (Danilovic, Navarro) played just 1/2 season while scoring in double figure, between 10/14 ppg, solid Nba players, even starters.
1 (Kleiza) has an overall average less than 9 but got 2 double digit season with 11 ppg
1 (Smith) played 3 season but never scoring more than 7.4 ppg
3 (Ford, Rakocevic, Greer, Arlauckas, Brown) failed to score at least 5.5 PPG
1 (Kutluay) plays just 5 games
7 never played a game in the NBA (McCalebb, Salyers, Nicholas, Vujanic, Goljovic, Myers, Radulovic)


Comments?

Navarro didn't win the scoring title. You were already told that.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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Originally Posted by Iceman#44
Of course, leading any league in scoring mean that you are one of the best of that league. You cannot be a scrub and leading at the same time your league in scoring.

Also, about X-Man and Tarpley: Tarpley actually destroys European Cup competition, leading the league both in scoring (26 ppg) AND rebounds (15 rbs) during 1993 season. Next year he average 21 ppg+13 rbs playing for Olympiakos. And this was 3 years after his last NBA game.
He come back in the NBA for 94-95 season, scoring 12 ppg.


Xavier McDaniel? He was 34 years old, coming from an 8 ppg season with Boston. Then he scores still 18.4 ppg+8 rebounds in Euroleague, #5 in boards x game.

European Cup was a different league genius.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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Originally Posted by Euroleague
Navarro didn't win the scoring title. You were already told that.

Why are you avoiding the point of the post and just nit-picking 1 small detail?
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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Originally Posted by Myth
Why are you avoiding the point of the post and just nit-picking 1 small detail?

There is no actual point to his post.
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:13 PM   #25
Iceman#44
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

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Originally Posted by Euroleague
European Cup was a different league genius.
So? I know it...he scores and won both scoring and boards titles in european cup. Thats what i said
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:16 PM   #26
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Default Re: Euroleague Scoring Champion List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman#44
Of course, leading any league in scoring mean that you are one of the best of that league. You cannot be a scrub and leading at the same time your league in scoring.

Also, about X-Man and Tarpley: Tarpley actually destroys European Cup competition, leading the league both in scoring (26 ppg) AND rebounds (15 rbs) during 1993 season. Next year he average 21 ppg+13 rbs playing for Olympiakos. And this was 3 years after his last NBA game.
He come back in the NBA for 94-95 season, scoring 12 ppg.


Xavier McDaniel? He was 34 years old, coming from an 8 ppg season with Boston. Then he scores still 18.4 ppg+8 rebounds in Euroleague, #5 in boards x game.

The surest bet is that if you lead a league in scoring, you are definitely among the best players of your team. Your team however may be the laughing stock of the league and you may not be that special in the wider picture.
European Cup was significantly weaker than Euroleague, although the same rules apply. McDaniel and Wilkins not leading the EL in scoring while a worse NBA player and scorer did is another example of the relationship between NBA scorers and EL scorers not being linear.
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