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Old 02-11-2014, 11:49 PM   #211
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

Re-watched episode 1 on On Demand and I can't remember if they mentioned the name of the most recent girl that was killed. Anyone remember?
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:18 AM   #212
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinabarca...en-waiting-for
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:45 AM   #213
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:39 AM   #214
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

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Originally Posted by niko
That's my point, that sounds ridiculous. a story needs to be taut and exciting, not contain a twist ending just to contain one.
Don't you steal my point!!!111 I was actually trying to point out how Cohle is a terrible choice. Anyway this argument has run its course all we can do now is wait and see how everything unfolds. Who knows Cohle might be the killer while not happening to be a terrible choice by the end.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:42 AM   #215
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:25 AM   #216
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
Don't you steal my point!!!111 I was actually trying to point out how Cohle is a terrible choice. Anyway this argument has run its course all we can do now is wait and see how everything unfolds. Who knows Cohle might be the killer while not happening to be a terrible choice by the end.


I agree. I've thrown out the theory about the daughter mostly because it feels like a writing course that would be natural to the genre. And I think the Cohl angle just looks too obvious, like it's a set up, but it could be done too. I think I'd prefer it to just be a straight story, to the point where the current killer isn't even someone we've met yet. Almost like the case is just an excuse to examine these two investigators more than being the true focul point.

All that said, I've liked the writing and tone enough so far that I'm totally willing to just ride with it. Any outcome at this point I feel I'll like plenty just because I've grown to trust the storytelling. And that's not even to say I've thought this was perfect. I feel like it's had some pacing issues to start, and the Cohl character has been a little too off key so far, although he's one of those characters that makes more sense the more you're given about him.

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Old 02-12-2014, 03:45 PM   #217
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

Damn, seems like I gotta check this show out.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:40 PM   #218
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

Great show with a great setting, just hope that future seasons have more episodes and great casts. I don't know about 8 episodes, long wait, 8 episodes, long wait, 8 episodes, long wait, etc...


I wonder how they're going to go about the 2012 murder case. Are they going to resolve it? Is it going to be by going after Cohle or Hart or maybe one gives a confession, or are they going to wrap up the 2005 story soon and go on about the 2012 case by asking Cohle and Hart to help? I'm leaning more towards that it's not a copycat murder and that they either got the wrong guy or there were more people involved in the 2005 murder.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:27 AM   #219
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

There are a few things I'm interested in.

Obviously these killings are going to be Satanic cult related, and done by a group of people, which is eluded to by the Yellow King and the capuchon. They are representative of begging rituals and essentially sacrificial acts.

If you've played close enough attention, you would notice the daughter's have participated in several activities that are questionable to say the least. From the naked female doll being aligned in the bedroom spread eagle style surrounded by clothed male dolls, to the drawing on Hart's wall which just so happens to be the EXACT one found on the original victim's back. Also the way the Bird's disperse whenever they discover the church, which is believed to be the site of the rituals, it creates the same symbol, just backwards.











The birds breaking apart are obviously foreshadowing that the crumbled church was the site of the cult functioned within. It being backwards is probably representative of the fact that they no longer operate at that location, or that the detectives are very close to the solution of the case but have it backwards/aren't thinking deeply enough into it.

The drawing on the wall is obviously foreshadowing the daughters have been either A. introduced to the cult by someone or B. that the cult has a part within the family.

My theory is that their grandfather, Hart's father-in-law, is part of the cult and has begun introducing the daughters into the ritual or that they have seen some of the symbols lying around his house, then copied them

Also I'm intrigued by the fall out between Hart and Cohle. I'm assuming it's based on Cohle and Maggie eventually hooking up, which is why they completely cease talking to each other for several years.

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Old 02-13-2014, 12:01 PM   #220
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

Yeah I pointed out earlier that somehow the daughter will piece into this...

I am scared that she will die and that will somehow tie itself together with the fact that MM lost his daughter...



I really like the grandfather theory...that makes a lot of sense
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:04 PM   #221
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
The right foreground here:


where was this scene in the last episode?

they built up episode 3 to end with this...and then it was nowhere???


did someone explain this in here already?
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:21 PM   #222
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
where was this scene in the last episode?

they built up episode 3 to end with this...and then it was nowhere???


did someone explain this in here already?

They'll encounter Ledoux later. The scene was a flash forward.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:36 PM   #223
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

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Originally Posted by Joyner82reload
My theory is that their grandfather, Hart's father-in-law, is part of the cult and has begun introducing the daughters into the ritual or that they have seen some of the symbols lying around his house, then copied them

Not a bad theory. That cult seems focused on kidnapping/indoctrinating/ritualistically killing young girls. They're all connected by their iconography- the tattoos (the 2 victims found so far, Dora's husband mentions that Reggie has the same exact tat), the twig structures, the buck antler motif, etc.

Wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Hart's girls were exposed somehow to the cult, maybe through their grandfather. I could also see one or both being kidnapped. Only thing that goes against the theory is that the father-in-law seems a bit uptight. Seemed really worried about kids and their affinity for 90s grunge culture. So it would be very strange if it turned out he was the leader of a cult based on the yellow king/chtulu mythos
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:58 AM   #224
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

So I left work early yesterday due to increasing snowfall, got home, shovelled, built a fire, and rewatched all four episodes.

Not that there's much here that's like The Wire, but one thing that is is that they soak you in the culture, and I think I missed some things based mainly on fighting through dialogue and stuff the first time through.

I do now believe that the ministry has something to do with the case. It's mentioned on several occasions where it doesn't really need to be. Eli from Boardwalk Empire, his preacher character mentions quickly that he's been preaching for over 20 years, and started by studying along side Rev. Tuttle. That reference slipped by me the first time, as it sounds like just a character filling in background, but Tuttle is the Governor who's brother is the evangilical preacher that comes to reinforce the importance of the case.

When they approach the guy mowing the lawn at the abondoned school, Hart says to Cohl quickly that it belongs to the ministry. That one was odd to me because that entire scene is otherwise not necessary. Cohl has a go nowhere conversation with a guy who knows nothing on a piece of property that reveals nothing. While it's happening Hart gets the hit on Ladeau being cellmates with Dora Lang's husband Charlie for a short stretch in prison before skipping out on parole. And off they go chasing after Ladeau.

I've heard so many theories about the grandfather that I watched the scene with him pretty carefully, and I just don't see anything directly. But I do have a possible tie in. He clearly has money. And Charlie Lang's description of the cult via Ladeau is that they're well off and ritualistically rape and kill young girls. "There's some good killin' down there." is a particularly chilling line. But I don't get the sense he's that well off.

I do firmly believe that Hart's daughter is tied in, and has been getting indoctrinated somewhere along the way since she was a kid. The doll stuff, and the school pictures are enough to convince me. I found it particularly chilling that in the last school pic they fixate on, the guy groping the woman appears clearly to be masked. Hart's asking how she even knows about this stuff already is telling. And if you wanted to build a case against the grandfather, it would probably start with him being most able to indoctrinate the daughter, along with the fact that he was so eager to push Hart away from them as soon as possible. Absolutely no intent on reconcilliation, calls him an asshole and says his daughter can do better, and admits to not always seeing eye to eye. His obsession about "kids today", may tie into a religious schema that would be tied to the cult, and sacrificing these "lost children" types may be part of his interest in there. I also think something could be read into Maggie's response to her husband's question,

"how does she even know about this stuff already" ... "Girls always know before boys" ... "Why?" ... "Because they have to!"

That back and fourth almost sounds like she's experienced this, and giving in sexually was a means of surviving. That script could totally be written.



My working hypothesis at the moment is that recently murdered girl, who Patrick Chewing up there asked if anyone recalls them mentioning her name, and after re-watching, I didn't pick up on anything. My guess is that that's Hart's daughter. Both Hart and Cohl pick up on the fact that the current detectives are pressing because they've caught something else. Hart shows little to no knowledge of what it might be (which is a little odd because he seems to still be a working cop), but Cohl almost immediately ties it to a report in a newspaper he read about on a dead body up at some lake.

His monitoring this stuff I think is meant as a misdirection to make us think he's the guy. And the quickness with which the investigators show him the picture I think is intended to tell the audience that they think he's the guy, as if they're trying to read his reaction to the picture. I also think there's some implication from all the cross iconography around him, and the fact the girl is crucified. Cohl has the conversation with Hart about The Cross early on. Cohl has a cross above his bed. Cohl fixates on the Cross in Lester from the Wire's church. And now Cohl is cutting his beer cans into cross like artifacts.

The question is how could Hart's daughter be missing for a month at least (according to how long ago the article was about the dead body) and he not know it. My guess is that over the next few weeks we'll learn just how estranged Maggie and the daughters got from Hart. I'm guessing things really didn't go well from here out, and possibly with influence from the grandfather. I think there's something too the fact that Cohl was so quickly shown the photo (although he did ask about it), and the fact that Marty wasn't shown it at all (although he gives the wry smile saying they must've caught something, and doesn't really press to see any more of it). I think Marty's horseshit dialogue, that's been edited to look super horseshitty, where everything he says in the current time he's shown behaving in almost the complete opposite way in the flashbacks, is a result to cover up what he considers a monstrous failure on the part of taking care of his family. He fixates on family during his current conversation with the investigators. I'm sure these guys know enough about Marty and Cohl's falling out to believe Cohl is a really viable suspect if that body is indeed Marty's daughter (off the grid, associated with the case for the symbology, lost a daughter of his own, and obviously had some harsh falling out with Marty that we haven't been privied to just yet).


As for the super TV possible ending, of Rust actually being the guy, the only evidence I can see supporting that is his discovery of the pyramid in the Fontaneau girl's shed. You could play up that he planted it there. Otherwise there isn't much unless they do a super cheesey drop everything kind of a moment, that just doesn't fit with the tone and tenor of anything the show has presented so far.


It really warranted the rewatch. The show is rich in regional dialogue, technical dialogue from the police end of it, and Cohl's philosophical rambling is dense. And I still feel like there's some greek literary symbolism in here with the way the story is told. Almost like The Oddessy, in the way they keep floating down this narrative running into single weird events one at a time (I got an Apocolypse Now vibe off of it, which I suppose yields a Dante's Inferno vibe, which owes a bit to The Oddessy I suppose). Combine all that with what is a gorgeously shot, but super rich visual environment, and a spectacular, but also loaded soundtrack, and this is not a casual TV watching experience. It requires some focus and some thought, and truthfully probably more than I had given it the first time through. But with having rewatched the first 4 episodes, I feel like I'm engaged so much in the story now that I won't have to from here out.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:54 AM   #225
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Default Re: HBO's True Detective discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
So I left work early yesterday due to increasing snowfall, got home, shovelled, built a fire, and rewatched all four episodes.

Not that there's much here that's like The Wire, but one thing that is is that they soak you in the culture, and I think I missed some things based mainly on fighting through dialogue and stuff the first time through.

I do now believe that the ministry has something to do with the case. It's mentioned on several occasions where it doesn't really need to be. Eli from Boardwalk Empire, his preacher character mentions quickly that he's been preaching for over 20 years, and started by studying along side Rev. Tuttle. That reference slipped by me the first time, as it sounds like just a character filling in background, but Tuttle is the Governor who's brother is the evangilical preacher that comes to reinforce the importance of the case.

When they approach the guy mowing the lawn at the abondoned school, Hart says to Cohl quickly that it belongs to the ministry. That one was odd to me because that entire scene is otherwise not necessary. Cohl has a go nowhere conversation with a guy who knows nothing on a piece of property that reveals nothing. While it's happening Hart gets the hit on Ladeau being cellmates with Dora Lang's husband Charlie for a short stretch in prison before skipping out on parole. And off they go chasing after Ladeau.

I've heard so many theories about the grandfather that I watched the scene with him pretty carefully, and I just don't see anything directly. But I do have a possible tie in. He clearly has money. And Charlie Lang's description of the cult via Ladeau is that they're well off and ritualistically rape and kill young girls. "There's some good killin' down there." is a particularly chilling line. But I don't get the sense he's that well off.

I do firmly believe that Hart's daughter is tied in, and has been getting indoctrinated somewhere along the way since she was a kid. The doll stuff, and the school pictures are enough to convince me. I found it particularly chilling that in the last school pic they fixate on, the guy groping the woman appears clearly to be masked. Hart's asking how she even knows about this stuff already is telling. And if you wanted to build a case against the grandfather, it would probably start with him being most able to indoctrinate the daughter, along with the fact that he was so eager to push Hart away from them as soon as possible. Absolutely no intent on reconcilliation, calls him an asshole and says his daughter can do better, and admits to not always seeing eye to eye. His obsession about "kids today", may tie into a religious schema that would be tied to the cult, and sacrificing these "lost children" types may be part of his interest in there. I also think something could be read into Maggie's response to her husband's question,

"how does she even know about this stuff already" ... "Girls always know before boys" ... "Why?" ... "Because they have to!"

That back and fourth almost sounds like she's experienced this, and giving in sexually was a means of surviving. That script could totally be written.



My working hypothesis at the moment is that recently murdered girl, who Patrick Chewing up there asked if anyone recalls them mentioning her name, and after re-watching, I didn't pick up on anything. My guess is that that's Hart's daughter. Both Hart and Cohl pick up on the fact that the current detectives are pressing because they've caught something else. Hart shows little to no knowledge of what it might be (which is a little odd because he seems to still be a working cop), but Cohl almost immediately ties it to a report in a newspaper he read about on a dead body up at some lake.

His monitoring this stuff I think is meant as a misdirection to make us think he's the guy. And the quickness with which the investigators show him the picture I think is intended to tell the audience that they think he's the guy, as if they're trying to read his reaction to the picture. I also think there's some implication from all the cross iconography around him, and the fact the girl is crucified. Cohl has the conversation with Hart about The Cross early on. Cohl has a cross above his bed. Cohl fixates on the Cross in Lester from the Wire's church. And now Cohl is cutting his beer cans into cross like artifacts.

The question is how could Hart's daughter be missing for a month at least (according to how long ago the article was about the dead body) and he not know it. My guess is that over the next few weeks we'll learn just how estranged Maggie and the daughters got from Hart. I'm guessing things really didn't go well from here out, and possibly with influence from the grandfather. I think there's something too the fact that Cohl was so quickly shown the photo (although he did ask about it), and the fact that Marty wasn't shown it at all (although he gives the wry smile saying they must've caught something, and doesn't really press to see any more of it). I think Marty's horseshit dialogue, that's been edited to look super horseshitty, where everything he says in the current time he's shown behaving in almost the complete opposite way in the flashbacks, is a result to cover up what he considers a monstrous failure on the part of taking care of his family. He fixates on family during his current conversation with the investigators. I'm sure these guys know enough about Marty and Cohl's falling out to believe Cohl is a really viable suspect if that body is indeed Marty's daughter (off the grid, associated with the case for the symbology, lost a daughter of his own, and obviously had some harsh falling out with Marty that we haven't been privied to just yet).


As for the super TV possible ending, of Rust actually being the guy, the only evidence I can see supporting that is his discovery of the pyramid in the Fontaneau girl's shed. You could play up that he planted it there. Otherwise there isn't much unless they do a super cheesey drop everything kind of a moment, that just doesn't fit with the tone and tenor of anything the show has presented so far.


It really warranted the rewatch. The show is rich in regional dialogue, technical dialogue from the police end of it, and Cohl's philosophical rambling is dense. And I still feel like there's some greek literary symbolism in here with the way the story is told. Almost like The Oddessy, in the way they keep floating down this narrative running into single weird events one at a time (I got an Apocolypse Now vibe off of it, which I suppose yields a Dante's Inferno vibe, which owes a bit to The Oddessy I suppose). Combine all that with what is a gorgeously shot, but super rich visual environment, and a spectacular, but also loaded soundtrack, and this is not a casual TV watching experience. It requires some focus and some thought, and truthfully probably more than I had given it the first time through. But with having rewatched the first 4 episodes, I feel like I'm engaged so much in the story now that I won't have to from here out.

Great observation and very interesting theory.
To me it would have seem natural for Cohl to ask about the newly found girls background and perhaps name when shown the photos, but if I remember right there was none of that.

Edit: Just went back and watched, Cohl didn't ask anything about the girl, only said it looked a lot like 95.
Another thing with that scene is that in the 95 timeline there's mentioning of the satanic cult like you mention,
but here Cohl says "how can it be him if we caught him in 95?", not "they" but very specific a single male.
That could mean a few different things because there seems to be some sarcasm in his voice.

Lastly, if that girl hanging from the bridge is really Harts daughter those two interviewers are really dismissive in their behavior considering they'd have to tell him later on that his daughter was killed.
Also wouldn't there be some sort of legal obligation for them to tell him, next of kind or sorts?

Last edited by ZenMaster : 02-14-2014 at 10:07 AM.
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