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Old 02-01-2014, 10:04 PM   #316
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
My dude...Say what you will. It's your forum homie. You had one sentence about Melo since he's played well. He has a bad game and you have entire paragraphs. It's all good. I won't stop talking about our supporting cast. I'll just stop here. You've attacked my IQ plenty of times but I know if I put you in your place like I really want to you'll probably ban me or erase my post or some shit . Either way, all good. The convo isn't getting dumb because of me. But to each is own. This forum has gotten dead anyway. Apparently you only know basketball if you think Melo sucks and bums who do nothing are good. I'm not going to lie to myself. I know what I see. So be it.

I said I was going to fall back but I kept posting because I missed the days when this forum used to be fun and popping. Its far from that site now.

If anyone wants to be able to talk Knicks basketball and voice displeasure about any player, Melo included, come to threetothedome.com or knicksnow.com Pretty fun sites. I'll be over there more often. Lata
Suit yourself fam.

Trust me..it's never about me, but I've enjoyed your 6+ plus years of constantly whining about role players, while you let some selectively off the hook....it's how you roll, but I take no issue...do you.

No different than the take you had on the jets not giving revis a billion dollars.

The only reason why you're taking exception now is because I complain about Melo now, when I used to wouldnt.

If I never complained about Melo like you won't the convo wouldnt go there.

I do know some folks that post in those places....awesome for them, not for me...dont like the vibe.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:43 PM   #317
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Hardaway is definitely a competitor.

game still close, someone needs to step up on the defense.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:44 PM   #318
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Wade had to pick tonite for his return.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:21 PM   #319
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

No defense, no win.

Hard to win letting role players score big, and botching free throws and turnovers.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:24 AM   #320
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

I think you're both right in some points.

IMO Melo does need way more help and is getting crucified too much. He's a great player but not LeBron-type great. I strongly disagree that some players knickscity named are better than Melo (especially about Harden) but also I don't know if he's good enough to be a #1 option on a championship team. I think HE IS but only if you build a perfect team around his strengths. For example put him to the Pacers instead of Paul George and they're the favorites to win it all.

Let's be real. Melo doesn't have enough help right now. Who do we have that can create his own shot ? Only J.R. and he's having one of the worst seasons of his career. Felton isn't good enough to be the #2 option,Bargnani is way too inconsistent and Amare is always hurt. Prigioni never looks for his own shot,Shumpert plays great for 2 games and then disappears for the next 10.
I love Hardaway but he's not been getting much playing time except for maybe the last few games (and that's because of Shump's injury).

So,who's going to score when Melo isn't hot ? No one. We have a bunch of streaky players that also have low IQ and are chuckers so you can't even expect something smart from them.
Also our defense has been piss poor and that's the fault of the whole team,not only Melo. Throughout the season Melo has actually been one of our better defenders and definitely showed more fire and desire on both ends of the floor than 90% of the team.

I disagree that he doesn't impact the game other than with scoring. He's averaging 9 rebounds per game playing out of position. However I do agree that he needs to pass the ball more. I think his biggest weaknesses is that he doesn't always make the right basketball play. Sometimes he's just forcing it too much and getting involved in personal battles instead of doing what's best for the team. Also I think he needs to drive the ball way more. Just look at the game last night. Every time he drove the ball something good happened.

So,I agree with franchize that Melo needs more help but I also agree with knickscity as I'm not sure if he can be #1 option on a championship team. I think he COULD be but only under the right circumstances but that's probably never going to happen.

Last edited by Clutch : 02-02-2014 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:42 AM   #321
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

I'm of the belief if a person can take the time to post a longer thought it should be worthy of a response, so here I go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
I think you're both right in some points.

IMO Melo does need way more help and is getting crucified too much. He's a great player but not LeBron-type great. I strongly disagree that some players knickscity named are better than Melo (especially about Harden) but also I don't know if he's good enough to be a #1 option on a championship team. I think HE IS but only if you build a perfect team around his strengths. For example put him to the Pacers instead of Paul George and they're the favorites to win it all.

IDK, say what you will about Harden, but they made the playoffs with him last year as the best player and that team was projected to be terrible and they are currently 32-17 in the West with him leading that team in scoring and a PER of 21.

But I totally disagree with the Paul George assessment....the Pacers are built a certain way that PG is the main piece of....primarily constant defense and effort, and share the scoring load.

That young man is primarily tasked to defend the opponents best wing, and that team doesnt rely on one scorer, they have several that can put up 20 on any given night....and they all willingly share the ball.

In essence....they dont need Melo and they'd lose alot on the defensive end.

Swapping PG with Melo makes them worse because of fit.

PG fits perfectly, wanna make the Pacers better? Swap David west with melo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
Let's be real. Melo doesn't have enough help right now. Who do we have that can create his own shot ? Only J.R. and he's having one of the worst seasons of his career. Felton isn't good enough to be the #2 option,Bargnani is way too inconsistent and Amare is always hurt. Prigioni never looks for his own shot,Shumpert plays great for 2 games and then disappears for the next 10.
I love Hardaway but he's not been getting much playing time except for maybe the last few games (and that's because of Shump's injury).

No doubt, but the entire east is terrible, this team with a top scorer should not be struggling to secure a playoff spot.

If the playoffs ended today, the Bobcats would qualify....and they have no stars at all...jus let that sink in for a second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
So,who's going to score when Melo isn't hot ? No one. We have a bunch of streaky players that also have low IQ and are chuckers so you can't even expect something smart from them.
Also our defense has been piss poor and that's the fault of the whole team,not only Melo. Throughout the season Melo has actually been one of our better defenders and definitely showed more fire and desire on both ends of the floor than 90% of the team.

Lets be serious, this team is terrible on defense, they've been an offensive minded team for the last two years.

Melo has made better efforts in a variety of aspects, but as you yourself has admitted...you dont feel he could be the best player on a team that wins it all, so why continue the charade?

And I seriously doubt anyone will be content with making 130 mil over the next five years, and nobody can complain about his cast if that happens.

The thing is...this team really doesnt have components of a winner, so everyone would have to take less of the pie....including Melo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
I disagree that he doesn't impact the game other than with scoring. He's averaging 9 rebounds per game playing out of position. However I do agree that he needs to pass the ball more. I think his biggest weaknesses is that he doesn't always make the right basketball play. Sometimes he's just forcing it too much and getting involved in personal battles instead of doing what's best for the team. Also I think he needs to drive the ball way more. Just look at the game last night. Every time he drove the ball something good happened.

Regardless of where Melo plays he's always been a good rebounder, my main issue with melo on the court is to make quick decisions with the ball and become a playmaker since he has it the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
So,I agree with franchize that Melo needs more help but I also agree with knickscity as I'm not sure if he can be #1 option on a championship team. I think he COULD be but only under the right circumstances but that's probably never going to happen.

For me, I have no issue with anyone's viewpoint, but there's no reason to show sensitivity when someone questions that viewpoint or just plainly has a different view.

For franchize, the reason why he's taking exception now is simply because last year i didnt credit Melo exclusively for the 54 win season, and why should I? Most of the core is the same, and they have the same coach, but just as the players themselves have said including Melo...they miss those old cats, ironically even after tonite Melo stated that this isnt the same team.

Sorry, but I wont let my eyes be blinded, i know why that team won those games...melo was a part of it...certainly NOT the main reason, and this year tells the story...

Felton sucked ass defensively last year as well....so no downgrade there.

JR isnt an 18 ppg player so to count production that was an exception is truly fooling yourself.

Amare wasn't there for the first half of the season...neither was Shumpert or K-mart.....so there play if anything should be a bonus.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:45 AM   #322
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Speaking of Melo, this is something he said last night in an interview...

I can't look at the standings, Anthony said. I know where we're at, but as far as saying we lost 28 games this year and only lost 28 last year, this season and last season is no comparison. It's a different year, different team. As long as we continue to get better, we can make a push for the playoffs.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:32 AM   #323
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

I often wonder why some of these guys make the on court decisions they do... could it be the pressure of playing for N.Y.? I mean, I watch Felton out of control barreling into the defense... ball slipping out of his hands. J.R. dribbling all over Hell's creation, killing the clock. Chandler with a spin move 20 feet from the basket. Where's the poise? Half the team's a turnover machine. Is the psyche so fragile? We need some new blood so freakin' badly -this culture of uncertainty sucks. I don't think the coach helps here either.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:54 AM   #324
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovegittar
I often wonder why some of these guys make the on court decisions they do... could it be the pressure of playing for N.Y.? I mean, I watch Felton out of control barreling into the defense... ball slipping out of his hands. J.R. dribbling all over Hell's creation, killing the clock. Chandler with a spin move 20 feet from the basket. Where's the poise? Half the team's a turnover machine. Is the psyche so fragile? We need some new blood so freakin' badly -this culture of uncertainty sucks. I don't think the coach helps here either.
The turnovers really isnt something they do on a nightly basis....it's probably a strength of the team that they normally DONT turn over the ball.

Odd you mention the turnovers but not mention the player who racked up the most of them.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:39 AM   #325
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
The turnovers really isnt something they do on a nightly basis....it's probably a strength of the team that they normally DONT turn over the ball.

Odd you mention the turnovers but not mention the player who racked up the most of them.

I was in bed by the half... knew where this game was probably headed. I like Melo enough, but I won't ever defend shitty play. My problem is when things get tough, this team more often than not loses it's collective mind. "Stumbling and Bumbling". Perhaps I don't watch other teams enough as a barometer, but was Jason Kidd THAT important to boosting the team's I.Q.? I figured Miami would snap out of it tonight... that, and NY feeling good about 4 wins over average teams at best.

I've been a Knick fan since the Seventies. Since Charles Dolan stepped down, I've been offended by the lack of coherence and waste of money that this franchise has displayed. And I hear they went after Bynum? Not easy being a fan of this team.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:53 AM   #326
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovegittar
I was in bed by the half... knew where this game was probably headed. I like Melo enough, but I won't ever defend shitty play. My problem is when things get tough, this team more often than not loses it's collective mind. "Stumbling and Bumbling". Perhaps I don't watch other teams enough as a barometer, but was Jason Kidd THAT important to boosting the team's I.Q.? I figured Miami would snap out of it tonight... that, and NY feeling good about 4 wins over average teams at best.

I've been a Knick fan since the Seventies. Since Charles Dolan stepped down, I've been offended by the lack of coherence and waste of money that this franchise has displayed. And I hear they went after Bynum? Not easy being a fan of this team.
I will agree that this organization is easily the worst run on the court in basketball and rivals the worst in quite a few sports.

I've been a fan since the 70's as well, actually saw Clyde play live, although as a Cav.

As far as Kidd goes....the players themselves have noted his impact on the team last season, and from the players and coaching staff they have all called this team different from last years....those are their words.....they miss those guys.

We still see melo do the "three to the dome", which we know came from Sheed and he wasnt doing it prior to Sheed being there, so the effect was pretty impactful.

So i think it's safe to say...yeah those guys had impact...and we're seeing the effects of such now.

The team overall just isnt that good...there's just been moments of nice things...like Melo's 62, which was great...for him.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:01 AM   #327
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
I will agree that this organization is easily the worst run on the court in basketball and rivals the worst in quite a few sports.

I've been a fan since the 70's as well, actually saw Clyde play live, although as a Cav.

As far as Kidd goes....the players themselves have noted his impact on the team last season, and from the players and coaching staff they have all called this team different from last years....those are their words.....they miss those guys.

We still see melo do the "three to the dome", which we know came from Sheed and he wasnt doing it prior to Sheed being there, so the effect was pretty impactful.

So i think it's safe to say...yeah those guys had impact...and we're seeing the effects of such now.

The team overall just isnt that good...there's just been moments of nice things...like Melo's 62, which was great...for him.


I agree on all points. Hopefully a few more moments of nice things, to ease the passing of this season. It'll be a l o n g off-season for myself.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:23 AM   #328
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
IDK, say what you will about Harden, but they made the playoffs with him last year as the best player and that team was projected to be terrible and they are currently 32-17 in the West with him leading that team in scoring and a PER of 21.

Well Harden has much better teammates. Dwight Howard is so much better than anyone Melo has to play with. Parsons is great and many people here argue that Lin is clearly better than Felton. They are good enough that they don't even need to play Omer Asik (who could be a starting center on 80% of the teams) and still have a great record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
No doubt, but the entire east is terrible, this team with a top scorer should not be struggling to secure a playoff spot.

If the playoffs ended today, the Bobcats would qualify....and they have no stars at all...jus let that sink in for a second.

I don't have an explanation for that other than that the Bobcats are playing hard every night and the Knicks got blown out several times not because of talent but because they weren't ready to play. I still don't understand how that tanking Boston team was able to beat us by 40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Lets be serious, this team is terrible on defense, they've been an offensive minded team for the last two years.

Right now we're 25th in defensive rating and 16th in offensive rating which means that our defense is horrible and our offense is average.
Last year we were 18th in defensive rating and 3rd in offensive rating which means that we were average defensive team and an elite offensive team.

We got worse on both ends of the floor. I agree that we were primarily an offensive team last year as well but we weren't this horrible on defense.
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:02 PM   #329
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
Well Harden has much better teammates. Dwight Howard is so much better than anyone Melo has to play with. Parsons is great and many people here argue that Lin is clearly better than Felton. They are good enough that they don't even need to play Omer Asik (who could be a starting center on 80% of the teams) and still have a great record.

Harden is a very good player, and that team was not predicted to be good last year before he got there.

Parsons was there before Harden arrived and he wasnt nearly as good then as he has been with harden.

And Harden attracted Dwight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
I don't have an explanation for that other than that the Bobcats are playing hard every night and the Knicks got blown out several times not because of talent but because they weren't ready to play. I still don't understand how that tanking Boston team was able to beat us by 40.
effort goes a long way....teams that play hard conssitently will always put up competitive games even in a loss.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
Right now we're 25th in defensive rating and 16th in offensive rating which means that our defense is horrible and our offense is average.
Last year we were 18th in defensive rating and 3rd in offensive rating which means that we were average defensive team and an elite offensive team.

We got worse on both ends of the floor. I agree that we were primarily an offensive team last year as well but we weren't this horrible on defense.

I really dont think I've seen too many team with such a slow pace yet have a piss poor defensive rating.

And I dont think the Knicks played better defense last year, just quite a few games were decided early due to blowouts due to lethal offense.

We saw the same games, we know the team last year was bonkers from three...that's not an elite offense.

Elite offenses dont shooting 44% from the field....they were a gimmick last year, and we saw this when those threes and long jumpers stopped falling.
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:11 PM   #330
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Default Re: The Knicks Official Regular Season Game Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
I really dont think I've seen too many team with such a slow pace yet have a piss poor defensive rating.

And I dont think the Knicks played better defense last year, just quite a few games were decided early due to blowouts due to lethal offense.

We saw the same games, we know the team last year was bonkers from three...that's not an elite offense.

Elite offenses dont shooting 44% from the field....they were a gimmick last year, and we saw this when those threes and long jumpers stopped falling.
We did play better defense last year. We started the season allowing something like 85-90 points per game. After some time our defense got worse but we were still nowhere near being the worst defensive team in the league.

I said we had elite offense because the numbers showed that. We started and finished the season with excellent ball movement that was propelled by excellent three point shooting. We never had good inside play or good set plays which ultimately hurt us in the playoffs where our shots stopped falling.

My point is,I agree that our offense was great because our shots were falling but I disagree that our defense was as poor as it has been this season.
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