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Old 11-13-2013, 12:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
You think the team around him is shit? I like the roster a lot. Holiday is slumping right now; but I see him as a pretty good young point guard whose slow start is an abberration.

Once he gets himself going and Evans and Anderson get healthy I see this team as good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong but a team with Davis plus 3 guys on the perimeter with the potential to become all-stars if they work on their shortcomings (i.e. shooting for Evans and Holiday, health for Gordon) sounds like a recipe for success.

What do you think the ceiling of this team is over the next 3 years?
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
You think the team around him is shit? I like the roster a lot. Holiday is slumping right now; but I see him as a pretty good young point guard whose slow start is an abberration.

Once he gets himself going and Evans and Anderson get healthy I see this team as good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong but a team with Davis plus 3 guys on the perimeter with the potential to become all-stars if they work on their shortcomings (i.e. shooting for Evans and Holiday, health for Gordon) sounds like a recipe for success.


Guys that don't want to be there and others playing like scrubs does not equal post season..
Of everyone was healthy and motivated it's still a stretch they'd make 8th spot, the west is too competitive..
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coin24
Guys that don't want to be there and others playing like scrubs does not equal post season..
Of everyone was healthy and motivated it's still a stretch they'd make 8th spot, the west is too competitive..

Exactly. That is the point I keep trying to make. What is the ceiling for this team?

This year it is the 8th seed (unlikely) and a first round playoff loss.

Next year what is it? The 6th seed and a first round playoff loss? That might be too generous.

The following year?

And then after that...the team will look completely different as Davis will get the max and Gordon and Andersen (assuming they are still there) will likely not be resigned.

So over those 3 years...you haven't built any continuity with long term Pelican players except for Holiday, Evans, and Davis...
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
So you want your franchise to pay guys a ton of money that aren't worth it just so you can win 15 more regular season games and be a fringe playoff team while hurting your team long term?

Makes no sense. Tanking really wouldn't even accurately describe what they would be doing.

It would be called rebuilding. Seriously...why spend 45 plus million per year on Gordon, Evans, Holiday, and Andersen if your team is at best going to get the 8th seed and lose in the first round? Especially with little to no chance to get much better anywhere else on the roster with all those guys...

Think about it. What is the ceiling of this current roster over the next 3 years? 1 playoff series win? That just isn't worth it. And then you have to pay Davis the max in 3 years and the entire team will be shaken up and be different.

So what good are these 3 years of being average at best? They hurt your draft status, you don't develop many players that will be there long term when the team is actually making a run, and you kill your cap space as well.

Just bad team management.

I was referring to all teams tanking in general, it's shitty for fans especially if it's been going on for a few seasons and the team just wastes picks.. The league needs to change the way the lottery works.

In NO case my point was they could get something better for that $15m than a disgruntled Gordon. I understand the CP3 trade but it's almost like pride is getting in the way of them moving forward..
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
What do you think the ceiling of this team is over the next 3 years?

Depends on how much better Davis gets. I see him as eventually being a top 3 player in the league so I think this team can be a top 4 seed if things bounce right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coin24
Guys that don't want to be there and others playing like scrubs does not equal post season..
Of everyone was healthy and motivated it's still a stretch they'd make 8th spot, the west is too competitive..

Has Gordon even said he doesn't want to be there lately? He didn't want to be there when the team sucked; but now that Davis is looking like a superstar and they've added Holiday and Evans he seems pretty content.

Maybe you've seen something that I haven't though.

Last edited by 2LeTTeRS : 11-13-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:46 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coin24
I was referring to all teams tanking in general, it's shitty for fans especially if it's been going on for a few seasons and the team just wastes picks.. The league needs to change the way the lottery works.

In NO case my point was they could get something better for that $15m than a disgruntled Gordon. I understand the CP3 trade but it's almost like pride is getting in the way of them moving forward..

Oh I totally agree.

Stern veto ****ed them though. They had to sign Gordon because NO fans would have lost their minds if they only got Aminu and Austin Rivers for CP3.

The other trade would have netted them Dragic, Martin, Scola, and Odom and a couple picks. And then they had plans to move those guys other than Dragic. Which would have given them even more young assets and picks.

So not only would they have not had to overpay Gordon, they would have been able to sign the likes of Dragic if they wanted to...to a much better contract...and he's a player they actually needed. Then you don't have to make the Noel trade.

So you are looking at Dragic, Davis and Noel...with potentially Kevin Martin on a great contract...all while getting higher draft picks over these next couple years and having way more cap flexibility.

Stern ****ed them. Like I said before, it was dumb luck that Gordon just essentially refused to play and it allowed them to get the first pick. But that trade in reality was even worse because if Gordon plays in 12...he nets you more wins and might have cost you the first pick as well.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Depends on how much better Davis gets. I see him as eventually being a top 3 player in the league so I think this team can be a top 4 seed if things bounce right.



Has Gordon even said he doesn't want to be there lately? He didn't want to be there when the team sucked; but now that Davis is looking like a superstar and they've added Holiday and Evans he seems pretty content.

Maybe you've seen something that I haven't though.

Top 3 might be high, but when is that?

That is why I asked over the next 3 years. Put it this way. Do you think they will win a playoff series in the next 3 seasons?
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scm5
Anthony Davis' future looks bleak with the type of perimeter players they're putting around him.

Gordon has 2 years left on his contract, so at least that part isn't too bad. They can probably move him next summer when he becomes an expirer.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Oh I totally agree.

Stern veto ****ed them though. They had to sign Gordon because NO fans would have lost their minds if they only got Aminu and Austin Rivers for CP3.

The other trade would have netted them Dragic, Martin, Scola, and Odom. And then they had plans to move those guys other than Dragic.


So not only would they have not had to overpay Gordon, they would have been able to sign the likes of Dragic if they wanted to...to a much better contract...and he's a player they actually needed. Then you don't have to make the Noel trade.

So you are looking at Dragic, Davis and Noel...with potentially Kevin Martin on a great contract...all while getting higher draft picks over these next couple years and having way more cap flexibility.

Stern ****ed them. Like I said before, it was dumb luck that Gordon just essentially refused to play and it allowed them to get the first pick. But that trade in reality was even worse because if Gordon plays in 12...he nets you more wins and might have cost you the first pick as well.

Wait did you just say that the shitty package that they would have gotten in the 3-way with the Lakers and Rockets would have helped the Hornets/Pelicans? Really? Scola was not worth his contract and was amnestied, Odom was a headcase whose game was slipping, and Martin is a talented regular season scorer who has been let go by 3 teams after they realized his on court impact was much lower than his #s.

The only asset in that trade would have been Dragic who had proven absolutely nothing in December 2011 when the trade was made; and like Gordon was also up for a payday that summer. That trade sucked and should have never been approved by the interim front office.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Wait did you just say that the shitty package that they would have gotten in the 3-way with the Lakers and Rockets would have helped the Hornets/Pelicans? Really? Scola was not worth his contract and was amnestied, Odom was a headcase whose game was slipping, and Martin is a talented regular season scorer who has been let go by 3 teams after they realized his on court impact was much lower than his #s.

The only asset in that trade would have been Dragic who had proven absolutely nothing in December 2011 when the trade was made; and like Gordon was also up for a payday that summer. That trade sucked and should have never been approved by the interim front office.

Nope. You are dead wrong.

Just think about it. They already confirmed that they were moving Odom after the trade.

So they are left then with Dragic, Scola, and Martin. Scola was an 18/8/3 player in 2011 and making 10 million a year. His contract was not bad at all...the Rockets amnestying him was a strategic move. Again, they were going to move these guys...Demps has talked about it. This whole "scola sucked" thing needs to stop. 18/8/3...he had trade value and his contract was not bad. And I think he only had 2 years left iirc, but I'm not sure. Regardless, he was absolutely movable...and Demps knew this.

Dragic was due for a payday? Dude...he makes 7.5 million a year. The Pelicans needed a pg. Dragic at that price allows them to not make the Noel trade. Trust me...you'd rather have Dragic and Noel than Holiday. Depending on what they decided to do with Martin...keeping him at 6.5 million a year is also not bad...although I bet they would have moved him as well.

I don't understand why people can't see it. It was really smart.

Really just shows you how stupid people are, even in the know, about how the NBA works.

Like I said before, it was dumb luck that the Gordon traded yield Davis. If Gordon plays...they don't get Davis.

So they would have moved Odom and Scola...which is at least 2 more 2nd round picks. And would have had the best chance to sign Dragic. If Martin only plays 9 games like Gordon did (only fair to compare similar situations because it was blind luck Gordon didn't play)...then you still get Davis, have the inside track at Dragic, and then have an expiring contract in Martin to move as well.

If people actually think they would have just kept all those players...you just don't get it.

Last edited by DMAVS41 : 11-13-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:09 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

He's a good player if healthy.

Once his 3 pointer starts falling he will be a top 2 guard in the L
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Nope. You are dead wrong.

Just think about it. They already confirmed that they were moving Odom after the trade.

So they are left then with Dragic, Scola, and Martin. Scola was an 18/8/3 player in 2011 and making 10 million a year. His contract was not bad at all...the Rockets amnestying him was a strategic move. Again, they were going to move these guys...Demps has talked about it.

Dragic was due for a payday? Dude...he makes 7.5 million a year. The Pelicans needed a pg. Dragic at that price allows them to not make the Noel trade. Trust me...you'd rather have Dragic and Noel than Holiday. Depending on what they decided to do with Martin...keeping him at 6.5 million a year is also not bad...although I bet they would have moved him as well.

I don't understand why people can't see it. It was really smart.

Really just shows you how stupid people are, even in the know, about how the NBA works.

Like I said before, it was dumb luck that the Gordon traded yield Davis. If Gordon plays...they don't get Davis.

I just see a bunch of mediocre players. Scola had a solid year on a bad team the season before the trade, but he was already 31 and would have been on the books until '14-'15; that's not the type of guy you build around when you are starting a re-build. Same for Martin; except he was 28.

And I must just not see the same player you see in Dragic; to me he's an average point guard. The way I see it if he was some great asset somebody would be trying to pluck him from the Suns.

Whether its to keep him or trade him; I'd much rather have Gordon than Scola (with his original contract, not the post-amnesty one the Pacers are paying), Dragic, and Martin -- much rather.

Last edited by 2LeTTeRS : 11-13-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:32 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
I just see a bunch of mediocre players. Scola had a solid year on a bad team the season before the trade, but he was already 31 and would have been on the books until '14-'15; that's not the type of guy you build around when you are starting a re-build. Same for Martin; except he was 28.

And I must just not see the same player you see in Dragic; to me he's an average point guard. The way I see it if he was some great asset somebody would be trying to pluck him from the Suns. I'd much rather have Gordon than him and Martin -- much rather.

I'm saying that they were going to move those mediocre players. But I must add that Odom and Scola were not thought of as just average players at the time. They had value...I'm looking for it right now, but Demps talked about their trade value and the plans he had.

I like Dragic. I think he has great value at his price. I don't love Kevin Martin, but again...at 6.5 million I like him way better than Gordon.

But here is my main point. I think the Pelicans will ultimately have been way better off if they didn't tie up 16 million a year in Gordon. I really think they should have tried to remain bad while building for the future this year. And they simply couldn't do that with the Gordon trade because they were forced to sign him.

That is why I keep asking what is the ceiling of this team over the next 3 years? Because after 3 years...this team is going to be drastically different because there simply isn't enough money to go around.

Imagine a team with Dragic, Noel, and Davis...while getting a top 5 pick in this years draft with a ton of cap flexibility...you really like the prospects of this current roster more than that? I certainly don't.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I'm saying that they were going to move those mediocre players. But I must add that Odom and Scola were not thought of as just average players at the time. They had value...I'm looking for it right now, but Demps talked about their trade value and the plans he had.

I like Dragic. I think he has great value at his price. I don't love Kevin Martin, but again...at 6.5 million I like him way better than Gordon.

But here is my main point. I think the Pelicans will ultimately have been way better off if they didn't tie up 16 million a year in Gordon. I really think they should have tried to remain bad while building for the future this year. And they simply couldn't do that with the Gordon trade because they were forced to sign him.

That is why I keep asking what is the ceiling of this team over the next 3 years? Because after 3 years...this team is going to be drastically different because there simply isn't enough money to go around.

Why do you assume that further trades will be made if the Scola, Dragic, and Martin package but ignore the fact that Gordon can be traded for a much better asset than those guys? And can't you say that 90% of the teams will be "drastically different in 3 years"?

Not sure what the problem is there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Imagine a team with Dragic, Noel, and Davis...while getting a top 5 pick in this years draft with a ton of cap flexibility...you really like the prospects of this current roster more than that? I certainly don't.

I'm imagining it and not being impressed. You keep slobbering on Dragic but not giving any reason why he's the "perfect fit for Davis." Once again he just looks like an average PG to me.

And you do realize Noel is not playing right? What about the fact that he's a 5 who weighs less than 210 pounds? He'll likely spend this entire season rehabbing and if his knees are giving him problems now how will they hold up once he adds weight?
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Why do you assume that further trades will be made if the Scola, Dragic, and Martin package but ignore the fact that Gordon can be traded for a much better asset than those guys? And can't you say that 90% of the teams will be "drastically different in 3 years"?

Not sure what the problem is there.




I'm imagining it and not being impressed. You keep slobbering on Dragic but not giving any reason why he's the "perfect fit for Davis." Once again he just looks like an average PG to me.

And you do realize Noel is not playing right? What about the fact that he's a 5 who weighs less than 210 pounds? He'll likely spend this entire season rehabbing and if his knees are giving him problems now how will they hold up once he adds weight?

We just see it differently.

If Gordon is traded for a great asset? Then I'll change my tune somewhat, but that remains to be seen.

If I said Dragic is "perfect"...I didn't mean to. He's not perfect, but at 7.5 million a year...he's a really solid fit for that team.

Noel isn't playing right now. That is perfect! It would allow the Pelicans to get a top 5 pick this coming summer...perhaps top 3.

Like I said. Give me Dragic, Davis, Noel...and top 5 pick this summer over what they have now. If they move Andersen for Asik and move Gordon to free up cap space and some assets...I'll change my tune.

But for now...they ****ed up.


Side note from the argument.

What do you think Gordon can return for the Pelicans?
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