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Old 11-13-2013, 06:31 PM   #76
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
dolan getting petulant cause another guard is taking "too long" to return from injury and overreacting with a trade?

Knicks basketball is BACK
We don't know that Dolan initiated this, and even if he did, there's no harm in trying to get a good power forward. Rebounding and the bigs in general are a weakness for the Knicks while they have 2 starting-caliber sgs and a first round pick SG as well (I don't know why they did that but whatever). Trading excess for lack is basic GM work. They just need to aim a bit lower because Faried's price is probably more than they can afford.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:37 PM   #77
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
We don't know that Dolan initiated this, and even if he did, there's no harm in trying to get a good power forward. Rebounding and the bigs in general are a weakness for the Knicks while they have 2 starting-caliber sgs and a first round pick SG as well (I don't know why they did that but whatever). Trading excess for lack is basic GM work. They just need to aim a bit lower because Faried's price is probably more than they can afford.
The "Dolan hates Shumpert" came from Isola who said last year he thought that Shump was in the doghouse. It's not this widespread thing, it's just people like conspiracy. So if Shump doesn't start "Dolan". Shump plays poorly and gets scolded, it's not his play, it's "Dolan".

Dolan's not a good owner but half the shit people say about him they are pulling out of the sky and have no proof of. Or just are being nitpicky, like his "guarantee" which was pretty much at a private party he held to perform at. People are acting like held a press conference.

I'd like a new owner if at all possible but the nitpicky shit people pin on him sometime is irritating.

Note: The SG pick was thinking JR might be leaving, as a backup wing. That and "best player available". It's funny because we took the athletic wing the Nets would like, and they took a big we could use.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:39 PM   #78
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
We don't know that Dolan initiated this, and even if he did, there's no harm in trying to get a good power forward. Rebounding and the bigs in general are a weakness for the Knicks while they have 2 starting-caliber sgs and a first round pick SG as well (I don't know why they did that but whatever). Trading excess for lack is basic GM work. They just need to aim a bit lower because Faried's price is probably more than they can afford.
I have a question for you as a Celtic fan, have you seen Garnett this year? He's really slow and his legs aren't under him, shots just terrible. From what you saw last year could this be real fall off just accelerrating, or he's just not in tune with his teammates. (assuming you have seen him play this year...)
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:48 PM   #79
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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I'm amazed that people think Faried/Shumpert would be fair for Denver. Faried is going to be a double-double big as soon as he starts getting 30+ minutes per. Shumpert is basically a younger Tony Allen. That's valuable but not worth a guy that can be one of the elite rebounders in the game.

I think the Nuggets are trying to sell high on Faried. He's not good defensively, elite rebounder and a very flawed offensive player outside of the high octane run every position. More garbage buckets, more chances to run in transition, he's basically the perfect fit for a running team. Elite rebounder but the question remains if you actually want to play him thirty minutes a night. Teams really cheat off of him in the half court.

Who knows, maybe Faried goes on to be a borderline All-Star. Certainly possible. He's also struggled at times this year and could peak as a below average defensive player that averages 12/9 and you have to pay 8 or 9 mill a season.

I wouldn't mind moving him, one of my favorite players too. Better than Shumpert tho and I'd hope the Nuggets could do better but wouldn't have been completely disgusted by a Shumpert return given the way we've looked early on.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:57 PM   #80
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by niko
I have a question for you as a Celtic fan, have you seen Garnett this year? He's really slow and his legs aren't under him, shots just terrible. From what you saw last year could this be real fall off just accelerrating, or he's just not in tune with his teammates. (assuming you have seen him play this year...)
Way off-topic, but ok.

He's 37, turning 38 this year. Two decades of NBA on those legs. He's bound to decline. I don't think 32% is representative of what he can do, even now, but every year he will get worse. That's nature.

He's only getting 23 mpg, a career low by a wide margin. Maybe he should get some more pt just for the sake of rhythm? It's not about his teammates, as a jumpshooting big he's really just firing open Js. The only teammate his game may miss is Rondo (Pierce is with him) but it's not like Deron Williams is a slouch. The downside of being too old to post plus not being the post-up guy for the team anyway is that his FG %age is going to be all about the jumper sometimes. I don't watch the Nets religiously but the games I've seen he's not used in the paint much. Celtics didn't make his posting a featured part of the attack but there would be a few plays ending in the turn-around jumper. Rondo used to throw him an alley-oop here and there as well.

But I think, most important of all, he didn't play less than half the game.

So there's a number of things going on which an honest Nets fan would have better insight into than I would at this point. There's the possibility at his age that he's just finished but I bet if they make the playoffs he'll grit out some double-doubles and I don't want to say it's over for KG yet. Everyone needs to understand that he probably won't be in the league as a player in two seasons.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:08 PM   #81
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
I think the Nuggets are trying to sell high on Faried. He's not good defensively, elite rebounder and a very flawed offensive player outside of the high octane run every position. More garbage buckets, more chances to run in transition, he's basically the perfect fit for a running team. Elite rebounder but the question remains if you actually want to play him thirty minutes a night. Teams really cheat off of him in the half court.

Who knows, maybe Faried goes on to be a borderline All-Star. Certainly possible. He's also struggled at times this year and could peak as a below average defensive player that averages 12/9 and you have to pay 8 or 9 mill a season.

I wouldn't mind moving him, one of my favorite players too. Better than Shumpert tho and I'd hope the Nuggets could do better but wouldn't have been completely disgusted by a Shumpert return given the way we've looked early on.
I wouldn't be so focused on his negatives in your position. Very few players have no flaws and so long as he's not expected to be a franchise player Faried can be a major asset. Hustle guys with size and athleticism contribute to teams in various ways almost by accident and Faried is the embodiment of this. He will need to develop something extra in his game, be it range, post d, or whatever to have a long career but he's similar to Rodman and Wallace not just in the ability to dominate the glass but the way his hustle can inspire a whole team to play better. It's an asset that won't make a guy a franchise player but is often a component of a great team. It's not exactly leadership, it's more like instant momentum. He's an energy guy. I'd take a player like that on my team every time.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #82
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
I wouldn't be so focused on his negatives in your position. Very few players have no flaws and so long as he's not expected to be a franchise player Faried can be a major asset. Hustle guys with size and athleticism contribute to teams in various ways almost by accident and Faried is the embodiment of this. He will need to develop something extra in his game, be it range, post d, or whatever to have a long career but he's similar to Rodman and Wallace not just in the ability to dominate the glass but the way his hustle can inspire a whole team to play better. It's an asset that won't make a guy a franchise player but is often a component of a great team. It's not exactly leadership, it's more like instant momentum. He's an energy guy. I'd take a player like that on my team every time.
That was an awesome reponse
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #83
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Way off-topic, but ok.

He's 37, turning 38 this year. Two decades of NBA on those legs. He's bound to decline. I don't think 32% is representative of what he can do, even now, but every year he will get worse. That's nature.

He's only getting 23 mpg, a career low by a wide margin. Maybe he should get some more pt just for the sake of rhythm? It's not about his teammates, as a jumpshooting big he's really just firing open Js. The only teammate his game may miss is Rondo (Pierce is with him) but it's not like Deron Williams is a slouch. The downside of being too old to post plus not being the post-up guy for the team anyway is that his FG %age is going to be all about the jumper sometimes. I don't watch the Nets religiously but the games I've seen he's not used in the paint much. Celtics didn't make his posting a featured part of the attack but there would be a few plays ending in the turn-around jumper. Rondo used to throw him an alley-oop here and there as well.

But I think, most important of all, he didn't play less than half the game.

So there's a number of things going on which an honest Nets fan would have better insight into than I would at this point. There's the possibility at his age that he's just finished but I bet if they make the playoffs he'll grit out some double-doubles and I don't want to say it's over for KG yet. Everyone needs to understand that he probably won't be in the league as a player in two seasons.
Thanks. I didn't want to bother you with a PM and if i made a topic i'd get ten people arguing. This seemed easier. The minute thing is valid. The minute restrictions clearly piss him off, and he comes in and tries to get 10 minutes of effort into five minutes. It doesn't work.

Last edited by niko : 11-13-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:28 PM   #84
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
I wouldn't be so focused on his negatives in your position. Very few players have no flaws and so long as he's not expected to be a franchise player Faried can be a major asset. Hustle guys with size and athleticism contribute to teams in various ways almost by accident and Faried is the embodiment of this. He will need to develop something extra in his game, be it range, post d, or whatever to have a long career but he's similar to Rodman and Wallace not just in the ability to dominate the glass but the way his hustle can inspire a whole team to play better. It's an asset that won't make a guy a franchise player but is often a component of a great team. It's not exactly leadership, it's more like instant momentum. He's an energy guy. I'd take a player like that on my team every time.

Oh I'm not focusing on the negatives, I know he can bring crazy momentum among many other positives. Problem is we've paid McGee, and probably can't move that contract. Him and Faried defensively are a huge problem. Faried doesn't bring size either, listed at what 6'8 probably closer to 6'6-6'7 for a PF.

Were slowing things down too, 6 months from now his value could fall off. Plus if the Nuggets are shopping him there could be problems behind closed doors we don't know, something obviously has to be up. Nuggets could end up falling off this season, missing the playoffs. Could be trying to maximize his value for the rebuild.

Denver is stacked in the frontcourt with players, J.J Hickson while not even close to being as good as Faried IMO can bring rebounding/better post play and Faried will obviously bring back a much better return than J.J.

It's really a toss up how this season plays out for Kenneth. Wouldn't be shocked to see him have a great year, same time won't be shocked to see him have a subpar year. If the FO believes the latter is more likely than makes sense to move him.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:30 PM   #85
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

who cares? As long as Melo is on that team, Knicks wont win anything.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:33 PM   #86
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

Knick fans DONT want this trade to go down?

Okay then, stay mediocre for...life.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:34 PM   #87
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Denver has made it clear to Kenneth Faried's reps: There are no active talks involving him. Knicks offered Shumpert. Denver rejected idea.

Oh you don't want Shump, eh? Well GOOD. We didn't want to do that trade anyway. And you know what? Now you CAN'T have him....how do you like THAT?!





shit
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:37 PM   #88
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Knick fans DONT want this trade to go down?

Okay then, stay mediocre for...life.

Mediocre For Life? I like it.

"Underdog....put it on a TShirt!"
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:43 PM   #89
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Oh I'm not focusing on the negatives, I know he can bring crazy momentum among many other positives. Problem is we've paid McGee, and probably can't move that contract. Him and Faried defensively are a huge problem. Faried doesn't bring size either, listed at what 6'8 probably closer to 6'6-6'7 for a PF.

Were slowing things down too, 6 months from now his value could fall off. Plus if the Nuggets are shopping him there could be problems behind closed doors we don't know, something obviously has to be up. Nuggets could end up falling off this season, missing the playoffs. Could be trying to maximize his value for the rebuild.
When I say "hustle guy with size" I'm talking about non-guards. Rodman and Wallace weren't 7-footers either. As for trade rumors ticking him off, that's not a concern when a guy is going to restricted free agency. I don't know what his personality is like but most players go wherever the money is so if Denver comes with market value he'll take it. If there is a team out there willing to max him out his agent will know that regardless, and in that case the team may have to move on but there will be plenty of time to engineer a trade in that final year. It's only the unrestricted FAs that can just do whatever they want.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:47 PM   #90
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Default Re: Knicks Discuss Shump for Faried (with Nuggets)

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Mediocre For Life? I like it.

"Underdog....put it on a TShirt!"
YES! ASAP
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