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Old 12-10-2013, 01:07 PM   #1
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Default Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

I've been a long time poster here and I really enjoy all of you guys. But it appears, how we view the Knicks are totally different. It's becoming mundane and redundant to keep having the same argument. So I will make my stance on the "problem with the Knicks" argument once and for all and then fall back. I'm not saying I'm not going to post but please pardon me if I post a lot less than normal.

Cole Aldrich- I think he's a stiff and not very talented but I think he's big enough and tough enough to mix it up. The way I see it is, if he can't get burn when Chandler is out and you have no real center, then why is he on your roster.? Either play him or cut him. I'm fine either way. He's a last resort kinda player

Carmelo Anthony- I think he's a top tier player in this league. He needs to be way more efficient and I think he doesn't make the game easy for himself like other players do. That being said, he's incredibly skilled at making difficult things look easy. I think he's at the top with Durant as far as pure scorers. I think he's yet to have a coach properly use him ( I never liked Karl or Antoni and Woody is a terrible offensive coach). I've yet to see a coach get him easy looks. I think his on ball defense is underrated but I think his help defense needs a lot of improvement. He over commits at times and gets lost in rotations. His 3 point shooting has been atrocious this year. I think he's trying to shoot his way out of slumps instead of attacking the rim and getting easy shots just to see the ball go in. I think he gets cheated by the refs but then again, our whole team doesn't get calls. I think, other than this year, Melo's underachieved rebounding wise. I think, when he concentrates on it, he's an good rebounder because he's strong and a quick jumper. He isn't an elite athlete but neither is K Love and he inhales rebounds lol. He should be around 8 rebounds a game every year. If given the Denver trade again, I'd do it in a heartbeat. He's the best player we've had since Ewing and I grew up a huge Marbury fan.

Andrea Bargnani- He's a very skilled Euro style big man. He loves to showcase his offensive prowess. He has the potential to be a better defender than one would think, if he puts his mind to it....but he almost never puts his mind to it. I think he came into the season out of shape. He looked flabby and slower than normal. I think he's not only getting in better condition but his confidence is growing. He's been aggressive on offense. I think he's a solid 3rd or 4th man to have on your roster provided you have someone to make up for his lack of defense.

Tyson Chandler- There's no secret I think this guy is overrated. I think he isn't nearly the defender or rebounder people make him out to be nor do I think he's as tough as people say. That being said, he's a vital part of our team. His energy is contagious. He ignites the team. I also witnessed, first hand, his communication skills on defense. To me, that's his most impressive trait. He barks out instructions like a middle linebacker. That's very important on defense. I would trade him in a heartbeat, but while he's here WE ABSOLUTELY NEED HIM!!!

Raymond Felton- I've said all along "he's a middle of the road PG getting paid middle of the road money." The beginning of this year however, he wasn't even that. He was BAD. I don't know what's happened but this guy doesn't play any defense anymore. He used to play D. He's average at best at every attribute but I tolerated him because he didn't make many mistakes. He thinks he's far better than he is and, at times, we've benefited from that false confidence. So far this year, however, he's been a backup at best. Ultimately, you can't have a mediocre PG AND lack talent at the other positions. It has to be either or, especially given how many teams have solid PGs now.

Tim Hardaway Jr- For a late 1st round pick, I'd have no buyer's remorse. He plays with fire and passion regardless of the score. I love his energy. I love his confidence. The obvious is that he gets way too overzealous sometimes with his shot selection. He also needs to get a lot stronger. I've seen some 2's bully him at times. I'd like to see him improve defensively, because much like Melo, he gets lost in rotations and his help defense is poor. All of this can be improved though. He's just a Rookie.

Kenyon Martin- At this point in Kenyon's career, he's an energy guy off the bench. Problem is, our lack of general management and injuries have made it to where we rely on him for way more than that. He rebounds pretty well for a guy who's really undersized for his position. He's a solid help defender and shot blocker (best on the team in my opinion). His on ball defense leaves a lot to be desired. Simply put, he's too aggressive. He fouls way too much so if you're relying on him to play a key role, he likely won't be able to because of foul trouble and injury concerns.

Toure Murry- Honestly, I haven't see enough of him to comment much. I don't think he's the PG people want him to be. I think he's a 2. That being said, it's unfair to judge a guy when he only plays garbage minutes.

Pablo Prigioni- Look. The guy's an extremely hard worker. He's incredibly feisty. He's a "pest" as Breen would say. But so are fleas. Don't mean they should make 1.5 million dollars. Prigioni is just not an NBA caliber basketball player in my opinion. He's inept on offense. He's only good for a wide (and I do mean wide) open 3 occasionally. This talk of his lack of turnovers is very misleading. He doesn't do anything on offense to risk turning the ball over. That's like me saying I've never been in an accident if I don't drive. He doesn't bring the ball up court if there's any ball pressure. Furthermore, the guy is an overrated on ball defender. Sure he gets steals in the back court, but once you realize you need to take care of the ball, he's not the hardest guy to go around. I do like how he plays passing lanes though. Ultimately, Prigioni is a 3rd string PG at best.

Iman Shumpert- He's young. He's very athletic. He came into the league with and NBA body. His jumpshot has continually improved. I think he's a solid rebounder for his position. He needs to work on his handle. It's pretty bad. He has one move really. I like Shump's heart, confidence and emotion. However, it can sometimes be his detriment. He wears his feelings on is sleeve. He;s come out and said his supposed fued with Melo is way overblown and Melo's been a mentor for him. That being said, he's also allowing his mood dictate his play. Regardless of whoever he's mad at, he's mad at someone. Everyone can tell. He's said it himself. Nobody should be able to make you look like a bum though. And for a few games this year, he's looked like a scrub. I think good coaching can fix this. Woody obviously some type of personal issue with this kid. It's like whenever he makes a mistake, he gets reprimanded far more than any other player.

JR Smith-He's very skilled but he can't be trusted. However, if you didn't know this by now, YOU are the one to blame as a GM. Everyone by now should know JR, like Nate Robinson and Jamal Crawford, are ultimate "sparks off the bench". As starters or guys playing big time minutes however, they can't be trusted. He's erratic. His shot selection is terrible. But if you have your starting lineup in order, his on ball defense, scoring prowess, crazy athleticism and sneaky rebounding ability can be a solid piece to the puzzle of a contender.

Amare Stoudemire- Amare is incredibly talented. I had a lot of sympathy for him. I know he hasn't asked to be injured as much as he's been. It's unfortunate, especially since he's worked so hard to be in shape every year. He's also grown up under immense hardships. Here's when I've lost respect for Amare though. I thought it was in very poor taste to have his documentary air a day before the playoffs... all about himself and very little about his teammates or experience as a Knick. It should have been called "how good Amare used to be." Ironically, he didn't play the next game due to injury. Add to that, nowadays, Amare's contributions are less about him helping the team and more about him showing the world "Amare still has it". People talk about Melo. Amare NEVER passes. No reason a PF should have that many turnovers. Plus, he's shyed away from his mid range jumpshot. 18 feet and in, this guy is money. He paid Hakeem Olajuwon to help him with his low post game, and it disappeared. He's a bull in a china shop when he's in the post. Sometimes it works. Sometimes you get turnovers and offensive fouls. More often than not, it's the latter. As for his defense, he's a decent shot blocker when challenging people at the rim. Other than that, he's atrocious. He fouls too much. He's over aggressive one minute and then non existent the next. He gets abused by guys at times that most have never even heard of.

Beno Udrih- I'll keep this brief. He can pass. He's crafty offensively. He's got good size for an NBA PG. He doesn't play defense very well at all.

Metta World Peace- He's always going to be one thing:tough. That said, there comes a time when a player has to realize they don't have it anymore. Most of the time, they're the last to know. Ron...you don't have it anymore. Now is he an absolute bum who should retire? No. But he's trying to do way too much offensively. Just come in, play defense, get rebounds and tough buckets and that's it. Shoot when you're open and only then. I don't want to see you taking fade aways and trying to be a scorer.
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Yeah, Felton used to play pretty good D. I remember a game a few years ago when he harassed Derrick Rose into, like, 7 or 8 turnovers and the Knicks won.

Shumpert used to play D too, and he's been getting burned horrendously this season. His knees might already be shot.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

A short but meaningful question I have for you based on your analysis.

You've pretty much fully analyzed the Knick roster. Having also posted here for years (Cant believe its been years now) with you on and off I trust your knowledge enough to know you have a deep knowledge of the coaching staff and management. So heres my question.

With your opinion of these players, do you think this a team with capable pieces to compete for an NBA championship?

If your answer is no, which is what my answer is, what moves do you think should be made?
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

i keep telling everyone, we need an elite pg like all the other 29 teams
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

This team pretty much loses every trade they make in some capacity. They give away picks to get salary relief, they give away picks to acquire players that arent that good. So at some point the team needs to consider not mortgaging the future every year. They need to consider drafting better. They need to consider developing some home grown players. It would be nice to not to overpay players to come here.

Dolan needs to give the front office to an independent President to run things. Hire a proper GM. Then lets move from there. Right now Dolan and CAA are running things.

At some point the goal should be to win a championship.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
A short but meaningful question I have for you based on your analysis.

You've pretty much fully analyzed the Knick roster. Having also posted here for years (Cant believe its been years now) with you on and off I trust your knowledge enough to know you have a deep knowledge of the coaching staff and management. So heres my question.

With your opinion of these players, do you think this a team with capable pieces to compete for an NBA championship?

If your answer is no, which is what my answer is, what moves do you think should be made?

No I don't think we are a championship team. Personally, I think we have to somehow rid ourselves of at least one bad contract on this team before we can even remotely talk about a ring. We need a facilitator. We need a player who can create their own offense off the dribble
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
No I don't think we are a championship team. Personally, I think we have to somehow rid ourselves of at least one bad contract on this team before we can even remotely talk about a ring. We need a facilitator. We need a player who can create their own offense off the dribble

I absolutely agree. Our offense would improve dramatically. The only player taking up a large perecentage of our cap that is actually worth it is Melo. No ones going to trade for Bargs, no ones going to trade for STAT.

Is the realistic move to make this happen then to trade Chandler?
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Sounds like Lin
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Sounds like Lin
Lin is grossly overpaid and lost his starting job to Patrick "hazardous to your health" Beverly. What we should have done was sign and traded him to get Lowry...who Houston was looking to trade anyway.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Lin is grossly overpaid and lost his starting job to Patrick "hazardous to your health" Beverly. What we should have done was sign and traded him to get Lowry...who Houston was looking to trade anyway.
Of course he is overpaid but the player that you all looking for is named Lin. You keep saying he lost his starting job so what. He's playing better in his role now for that team. People here might not have watched Lin so they are under the impression by how your saying it like he lost his job and barely plays and stinking up the joint.

Rockets have like the 5th best record in the NBA right now.

Bottom line is the person being described is LIN.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:49 PM   #11
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Of course he is overpaid but the player that you all looking for is named Lin. You keep saying he lost his starting job so what. He's playing better in his role now for that team. People here might not have watched Lin so they are under the impression by how your saying it like he lost his job and barely plays and stinking up the joint.

Rockets have like the 5th best record in the NBA right now.

Bottom line is the person being described is LIN.
We don't need him to be a spark off the bench though. He works for Houston because they can afford to him to be a bench player. They have talent.

The ideal PG for this team, IMO, is Steph Curry. Unfortunately, we were one pick away from that happening.

Last edited by franchize : 12-12-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

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Originally Posted by franchize
WE don't need him to be a spark off the bench though. He works for Houston because they can afford to him to be a bench player. They have talent.

The ideal PG for this team, IMO, is Steph Curry. Unfortunately, we were one pick away from that happening.
In Houston he comes off the bench because they have Harden. In NY he would start. He would be a beast. He scores and makes all the other players happy. I wouldnt mind his defensive deficiencies because he's that good on the offensive end for himself and everyone else although I believe he would have tried to get better.

Unless Melo changed his tune I dont see him playing well with a dominant PG. You know he didnt want Lin what would happen with Curry.

What does Melo like a spot up shooting PG and dump the ball to Melo stand around until he makes a decision with the ball. Shot clock runs down, he'll get double teamed force a shot or pass the rock then get annoyed no one hits that shot with little time on the clock.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sorry Fellas....just not understanding Knick fan logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
In Houston he comes off the bench because they have Harden. In NY he would start. He would be a beast. He scores and makes all the other players happy. I wouldnt mind his defensive deficiencies because he's that good on the offensive end for himself and everyone else although I believe he would have tried to get better.

Unless Melo changed his tune I dont see him playing well with a dominant PG. You know he didnt want Lin what would happen with Curry.

What does Melo like a spot up shooting PG and dump the ball to Melo stand around until he makes a decision with the ball. Shot clock runs down, he'll get double teamed force a shot or pass the rock then get annoyed no one hits that shot with little time on the clock.
I think everything you described happening is a product of Woodson not having an offensive scheme in place to maximize his player's talents.

And no I don't know he didn't want Lin. I only go by facts and what I see people say from their mouths. Not by what "insiders" speculate.
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