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Old 12-17-2013, 06:19 PM   #1
Legends66NBA7
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Question Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

http://o.canada.com/sports/raptors-w...demar-derozan/

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The Kyle Lowry trade talks have calmed down over the weekend, but Toronto Raptors GM Masai Ujiri continues to stay active on the phones.

According to ESPNís Chad Ford, Ujiri is working hard to move Lowry (not really news) as well as DeMar DeRozan (this might raise eyebrows) in an attempt to get worse in the standings. Teams are also showing heavy interest in Raptors big men Jonas Valanciunas and Amir Johnson. However, it appears the Raptors arenít going to let them go for cheap.

"Rudy Gayís absence hasnít had the tanking effect GM Masai Ujiri had hoped for. In fact, the Raptors are 3-1 since the trade. Thatís why Ujiri is out working hard to move more veterans like Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan. Lowry should be pretty easy to move. DeRozan will be tougher.

GMs are even more interested in trying to pry away Jonas Valanciunas and Amir Johnson, Iím told. Valanciunas is virtually untouchable and it would take a pretty high draft pick to pry away Johnson, who is playing the best ball of his career right now (averaging 20 points and 9 rebounds in his past five games)."


Lowry should be easy to move under normal circumstances.The problem is, the league is now littered point guards that are just as good or better than Lowry, which gives teams not a lot of incentive to offer much value for him. His expiring status also hurts the Raptors since teams wonít be willing to give up a lot for a rental.

The only teams that need Lowry, ones that arenít rebuilding anyways, canít offer much young assets for him. Such has been the case with New York, Brooklyn and Golden State as none of those teams have any immediate first rounders that they can trade to the Raptors.

DeRozan is the teamís best wing, but his impact isnít significant enough to affect the Raptors on the win-loss column, so there shouldnít be any rush to move him. The team can afford to keep him for the year and help him pump out his value to negate his contract (he is owed $28.5 million over the next three seasons after this year). That way the Raptors can fully maximize him as an asset.

Trading Johnson would be a huge loss both on and off the court, but given that he is in his prime, and that the team is obviously rebuilding, it might be a good opportunity for the team to sell high for a change (if the right offer comes around). He is the teamís most complete front court player and moving him will help them get worse, very fast.

Johnson will also be entering the free agent market after the 2014-15 season and he will likely get a big offer from a team starved for a two-way big man. Moving him next year will diminish some of the value coming back in a trade because he will be on an expiring deal and teams will want a long term commitment if they are going to give up valuable pieces. If he isnít in Ujiriís long term plans, he should be on the block.

As for Jonas Valanciunas, making him untouchable isnít the right move at this juncture, but it does help drive up the price in trade talks. He still has a lot of work to do in the low post and his defensive impact is a net negative. The Raptors are better 2.9 points per 100 possessions on the defensive end when Valanciunas is on the bench.

Both Valanciunas and Johnson will yield a lot of value and if the Raptors can get a high lottery pick at the 2014 NBA Draft , it should be a no-brainer for Ujiri. Valanciunas and Johnson are very good players, and their offensive numbers will look even better once Greivis Vasquez starts playing with them, but they arenít game changers.

The Raptors have also been mentioned as a potential landing spot for Boston Cetlics guard Jordan Crawford. The 25 year old Crawford, who will be a restricted free agent, is having the best season of his NBA career. He is averaging 13.8 points (true shooting percentage of 55.7%), 5.5 assists and 3.2 rebounds per game.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Now I'm seriously don't know what Masai really wants to do.

But as long as JV and maybe Amir stay around, I'm fine with any moves Masai makes as of now.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

I have my doubts about them "working hard" to move Derozan. I'm admittedly not a big fan of his game but he has improved this year and I just doubt that the Raptors are in a hurry to deal him. But he should absolutely be available if the price is right. Same goes for Amir.

Lowry should obviously be traded ASAP. His value will only go down as time goes on because whoever is getting him only has him for this year.

Valanciunas should not be "untouchable" (no one on the Raptors is valuable enough for that label) but I just don't see any reasonable deal that could get done. Would I trade him for a guaranteed top 5 pick in this upcoming draft? Sure. But there are no guarantees like that now and I doubt the other team does that.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

THe thing I don't understand about this guy is... why would he wait this long to implement a tank strategy? Did he originally think the team and the players on this team were solid enough to make a deep playoff run and it took him until December to realize they were at best one round and out? Also, I don't know if I trust him not to make desperation moves that aren't worth what we're giving up. Man I wish I knew the direction we were going in.
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
THe thing I don't understand about this guy is... why would he wait this long to implement a tank strategy? Did he originally think the team and the players on this team were solid enough to make a deep playoff run and it took him until December to realize they were at best one round and out? Also, I don't know if I trust him not to make desperation moves that aren't worth what we're giving up. Man I wish I knew the direction we were going in.

To come in and just disassemble a team is not an overnight process. You need to find takers for horrible contracts, as well as teams and injury needs. The big one was Bargs and he got rid of him pretty early. He's not looking to good in New York and we got a lot back for someone who really didn't help us improve. And finding a taker for that horrible 19 mil contract that Gay had isn't easy as well. But he did. It is not going to be easy to tank, but he's getting there!
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
I have my doubts about them "working hard" to move Derozan. I'm admittedly not a big fan of his game but he has improved this year and I just doubt that the Raptors are in a hurry to deal him. But he should absolutely be available if the price is right. Same goes for Amir.

Lowry should obviously be traded ASAP. His value will only go down as time goes on because whoever is getting him only has him for this year.

Valanciunas should not be "untouchable" (no one on the Raptors is valuable enough for that label) but I just don't see any reasonable deal that could get done. Would I trade him for a guaranteed top 5 pick in this upcoming draft? Sure. But there are no guarantees like that now and I doubt the other team does that.

+1 all above.

The only piece left out of Q's analysis are:

Terrence Ross.

Joey Graham... er sorry Terrence Ross should be moved IF Derozan is deemed the future ; i doubt we are working hard to move Demar. There are enough Landry Fields types (at a reasonable price) out there to play behind Derozan off the the bench and every draft crop has a dozen Jeremy Lambs.

Amir

I hope that Amir is the quality type of guy that want to hang around. I think he is. Amir may or may not be a starter on all teams ; but he has the Paul Misslip quality that he will succeed at any task you give him. The last guy we had like that was really Alvin ... Mo Pete even left town. Character guys add depth to the organization and can hopefully talk to promising player about coming to Toronto.

Last edited by Jballer : 12-19-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jballer
I hope that Amir is the quality type of guy that want to hang around. I think he is. Amir may or may not be a starter on all teams ; but he has the Paul Misslip quality that he will succeed at any task you give him. The last guy we had like that was really Alvin ... Mo Pete even left town. Character guys add depth to the organization and can hopefully talk to promising player about coming to Toronto.

Mo Pete left town, because Sam Mitchell hated him for whatever reason. That's why Mo only played 7 whole f*cking minutes in Game 1 against the Nets. Freakin Joey Graham played 35 minutes and got wrecked by both Carter and Jefferson. Freakin embarrassing.

I swear if Mo Pete played 35 minutes that night, the Raps would have taken the series in 6.

BC even signed Kapono for 6 mil a year, instead of offering a contract to Mo.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

I agree about Amir. We all thought he was overpaid but he's a glue guy. You can buy talent but you can't buy professionalism and tremendous work ethic. He will do anything he is asked to do without complaining and his effort more than makes up for somewhat of a lull in skills for his position just like as was mentioned (my fave raptors of all time) Alvin Williams.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Masai better work harder to trade away his players, this team is a playoff team so far in the LEast.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Gonna get caught in no-man's land afterall
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn
Gonna get caught in no-man's land afterall
Might be. I'm starting to slowly accept that the Raptors future holds nothing but mediocrity with this current "plan". We'll see. Still lots of time left in the season and until the trade deadline.

But if this team finishes this year around .500, I'm out. No need to waste more time on a franchise that is ok with merely keeping the sheep in the seats and the revenue stream coming. I 100% bought all the words Colangelo spewed when he came in. Not falling for that again.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

The current Raptors are one good, but not great player away from being good enough for the 4th to 6th seed for the next 4-6 years. Always a contender never a realistic chance at the championship. I am hating the way this team looks and am hoping that Masai sees how futile this team is. You have to build a team with top end talent first and fill around. Building a team with good starters and no superstars is a waste of time. Lowry, DeRozan, and Johnson are all good starters who need to be filling out another roster. Keeping them on the Raptors is useless. If this roster is kept like this the best I could see is a second round exit with a first round exit more likely. Unfortunately I do not see this team missing the playoffs unless more changes come.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Lets be honest we aren't going to win the championship if we picking anything else besides first. You need superstar generational types to win not the odd star, all star or two. Right now is it worth dumping amir/derozan/lowry for a chance at picking bosh/carmelo/d williams type talents? Absolutely not, if there is a player like duncan or lebron or jordan in this draft which I don't think there is then we shouldn't strip this team for second rate star prospects.

We aren't winning with this core group outside of a hidden gem pick, and we definitely aren't winning with b level star type talents. Look throughout the history of the nba, besides detroit all those championship teams have all time greats/generational superstars.

So I guess we'll have to wait for the next mega superstar prospect and then blow this team up to smithereens or pray that this team turns into a pacers/pistons type where they try to win by committee.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Quote:
You need superstar generational types to win not the odd star, all star or two. Right now is it worth dumping amir/derozan/lowry for a chance at picking bosh/carmelo/d williams type talents? Absolutely not
Of course it is. Why not? The Raptors aren't getting talent like that anywhere other than the draft. Holding out for a generational talent like Lebron or Duncan is completely unreasonable. If you can get a perennial All-Star caliber player like one of those then you're thrilled. That's why the top 5 or 6 in this draft looks so appealing.

Get one, and it takes some smart moves to build a winner around them something that was never done with Carter or Bosh. But it's possible. Get lucky and get two of those types of players and you're set. The Raptors have no one on the current roster that will reach that level.

Also, you're not just dumping Amir and Derozan. You expect to get assets back in return for them. The important thing is not being fooled into thinking this core has the makings of a long-term winner like the Raptors did with Bosh + role players after they won the Titanic in 06/07.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Raptors working hard to move both Lowry and DeRozan; attempts at Amir and Jonas too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Of course it is. Why not? The Raptors aren't getting talent like that anywhere other than the draft. Holding out for a generational talent like Lebron or Duncan is completely unreasonable. If you can get a perennial All-Star caliber player like one of those then you're thrilled. That's why the top 5 or 6 in this draft looks so appealing.

Get one, and it takes some smart moves to build a winner around them something that was never done with Carter or Bosh. But it's possible. Get lucky and get two of those types of players and you're set. The Raptors have no one on the current roster that will reach that level.

Also, you're not just dumping Amir and Derozan. You expect to get assets back in return for them. The important thing is not being fooled into thinking this core has the makings of a long-term winner like the Raptors did with Bosh + role players after they won the Titanic in 06/07.

Those players are flawed to build around. They would make great sidekicks for a lebron/jordan/shaq/duncan type but you simply cannot build a winner out of second rate talent. Unless we plan on going the detroit route which would be even more difficult.

The biggest difference between this group and 06/07 group is we aren't relying on 30 year olds to get the job done. Stripping the team down for second rate talents only means we will be going through the ringer a few years down the road with no realistic shot of winning it all. Think mid-late 00s hawks/jazz/nuggets. Look at a team like the cavs, they've been drafting in the top 3 for how many years now? And they still suck. If we are going down the tanking road, do it for a mega superstar other than that try and stockpile assets and have that flexibility going down the road.
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