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Old 12-23-2014, 06:55 PM   #1
Legendofthe718
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Default Help with jumper

I'm extremely inconsistent with my shot, and it really affects my game. I've been told I have a very weird shot, and think it may have something to do with my shitty shot. Help guys.


http://youtu.be/cKxdx22AlPw

http://youtu.be/B3rUtzzpnks
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:51 AM   #2
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Default Re: Help with jumper

from a quick look, the left hand doesn't seem to guide the ball. it just floats off to the left. have that left hand in a straight motion. i'll look into it more later but that's the first thing i noticed
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Old 12-24-2014, 06:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: Help with jumper

I'll film a video of me shooting my midrange jumpers. Check Jordan's fundamental videos on youtube.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by L3B120N J4M35
from a quick look, the left hand doesn't seem to guide the ball. it just floats off to the left. have that left hand in a straight motion. i'll look into it more later but that's the first thing i noticed

Thanks man, break that down for me when you get a chance.
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Old 12-25-2014, 11:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Get your feet set before you set the ball. Before the shot get your elbow up a little bit higher, at least above your chin. Your release point looks good.
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Old 12-25-2014, 01:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendofthe718
I'm extremely inconsistent with my shot, and it really affects my game. I've been told I have a very weird shot, and think it may have something to do with my shitty shot. Help guys.


http://youtu.be/cKxdx22AlPw

http://youtu.be/B3rUtzzpnks
It's kind of tough to get a great grasp on your shot with such a limited scope, so these suggestions may be subject to change depending upon more looks. I will say, there's a lot of good going here. Wrist snap, follow-through, fluid motion. However, I'll try to delve a little deeper.

1) Starting off, I have questions about your base. It's tough to tell for sure from this angle, but it looks as if your feet are almost pointed toward the opposite sideline instead of toward the hoop.



Feet that don't point toward the hoop can work, but it can also really breed inconsistency. This is because having un-squared feet means you must twist your body to square your upper torso to the hoop, and twisting just the right amount can prove tough. Over twist or under twist just a hair and suddenly your shot's headed slightly to the left or right.

When one's feet are pointed directly at the hoop, all the body shifting guess work goes out the window. Feet are pointed at target, so torso is pointed at target. Every time.

2) I noticed another poster mentioned that left hand. It looks like it may jut off a little early, but I can't tell for sure. It's like the left is used as a guide for 85% of the shot then you pull it away from the ball during the last sequence prior to release.



Tough to see for sure, but if your right hand loses stability right at the end of the stroke (as your left shoots off), it could cause your shot to lose a touch of accuracy right at the end. I try to freeze that left hand and allow my right to shoot the ball out of its launching pad so to speak.

3) Perhaps tying into the left-hand thing. Your right-handed follow-through seems to waver back and forth. The initial follow-through (on the first shot of your first video) seems to pop slightly to the left, then the hand straightens at the hoop after release before drifting all the way to the right, where you ultimately end with this.



Ideally, the whole shooting motion should be a little tighter all the way through the process, as opposed to being spread all about, as we see in the picture above. Here's an example of a tighter process throughout:



Lastly, if your base truly is turned as much as it appears it may be, that could lead to a situation where the lead foot is way too far forward, thus resulting in the slight push shot action.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 12-25-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
It's kind of tough to get a great grasp on your shot with such a limited scope, so these suggestions may be subject to change depending upon more looks. I will say, there's a lot of good going here. Wrist snap, follow-through, fluid motion. However, I'll try to delve a little deeper.

1) Starting off, I have questions about your base. It's tough to tell for sure from this angle, but it looks as if your feet are almost pointed toward the opposite sideline instead of toward the hoop.



Feet that don't point toward the hoop can work, but it can also really breed inconsistency. This is because having un-squared feet means you must twist your body to square your upper torso to the hoop, and twisting just the right amount can prove tough. Over twist or under twist just a hair and suddenly your shot's headed slightly to the left or right.

When one's feet are pointed directly at the hoop, all the body shifting guess work goes out the window. Feet are pointed at target, so torso is pointed at target. Every time.

2) I noticed another poster mentioned that left hand. It looks like it may jut off a little early, but I can't tell for sure. It's like the left is used as a guide for 85% of the shot then you pull it away from the ball during the last sequence prior to release.



Tough to see for sure, but if your right hand loses stability right at the end of the stroke (as your left shoots off), it could cause your shot to lose a touch of accuracy right at the end. I try to freeze that left hand and allow my right to shoot the ball out of its launching pad so to speak.

3) Perhaps tying into the left-hand thing. Your right-handed follow-through seems to waver back and forth. The initial follow-through (on the first shot of your first video) seems to pop slightly to the left, then the hand straightens at the hoop after release before drifting all the way to the right, where you ultimately end with this.



Ideally, the whole shooting motion should be a little tighter all the way through the process, as opposed to being spread all about, as we see in the picture above. Here's an example of a tighter process throughout:



Lastly, if your base truly is turned as much as it appears it may be, that could lead to a situation where the lead foot is way too far forward, thus resulting in the slight push shot action.

Thanks for the insight man, yeah I actually don't square my feet to the rim, but stagger them, and turn them slightly to the left, and I also turn my shooting side shoulder in so my elbow, and hips are squared to the rim. You can go through those videos to my YouTube page tocheck out some other angles. Man, the left hand thing is kind of confusing, I feel if I keep my left hand on the ball any longer it will alter my shot. As far as my right hand do you want my follow through to be stiff? Am I moving it too early? I appreciate the feedback. It's weird because some people say I have textbook form, and others say it looks like I'm shooting from the top of my head. It's hard to guage what's going on. One thing that is consistent that I hear is that I don't use my legs. I bend my knees to power my shot, so that's confusing as well.
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Help with jumper

u a big black dude that listens to panda bear?

props
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Help with jumper

follow the BEEF rule

Balance: you look offset from the beginning. all great shooters will tell you a consistent jumpshot comes from the ground up. your feet can be slight offset but your hips and shoulders have to be square with the rim. you should be aiming with your right hip, but both hips need to be square or else your basically guessing.

Elbow: from your triple threat motion to above your head, your shooting elbow needs to be locked in an L. not so intensely to make your arm tired but enough so that there is NO hinging in your elbow during you shooting motion.

Eye: ball should be released above eye level. elbow on follow through should be above eye level. this will remind you to keep your follow through high and give you a good arc on your shot. You don't seem to be having a problem with this though.

Follow-through: from what I can see you are already doing an okay job with this, but try and exaggerate the snap in your wrist. if you load your wrist back with the ball sort of like this:

[IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/BwdTZMJ7TKTlnOMGzw0AIiCLSb000lqLUJ1*deQkUOX8sToiCc 4r2*K39*g0qPFjIgHa5e2sr3L4F6ix*igBJr0xsIH1pR*p/tumblr_lp7hahRRPM1qejjw5o1_500.jpg?width=390&heigh t=600[/IMG]

...your wrist muscles will naturally snap your hand forward. you will get a better follow through by loading your wrist as far as you can. if you can see wrinkles on the back of your hand you will know youre doing it right.

you don't have the worst shot ive ever seen, so these are really basic principles you can use to make some tweaks. some posters before have posted themselves shooting and they need much more work than you. You just have run through this check list in your mind while youre practicing and after a while your body will do the work for you. Train your muscle memory so that this becomes second nature for you
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendofthe718
Thanks for the insight man, yeah I actually don't square my feet to the rim, but stagger them, and turn them slightly to the left, and I also turn my shooting side shoulder in so my elbow, and hips are squared to the rim.
Right on. As said, that works for a lot of people but if you happen to struggle with consistency, that might be a good place to start when looking to tweak one's stroke. Like Burgh's said above, having to manually aim with the elbow to compensate for how crooked the rest of your body is prior to takeoff can require a lot of minuscule, albeit important, calculations that could lead to shooting issues if the guess work isn't exactly perfect.

I happen to be a guy who prefers having it all pointed toward the hoop - my feet, my shoulders, and my elbow. It's what's easiest to me. If everything's straight, I know I don't have to make any other twists or calculations. It's just a catapult straight ahead.

But in the least, I'd follow Burgh's advice of squaring the hips. I think Kevin Durant might have slightly crooked feet on his shot, but his hips remain square (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEJK5g4yVg4)

Quote:
Man, the left hand thing is kind of confusing, I feel if I keep my left hand on the ball any longer it will alter my shot.
Yeah, I'm still on the fence on that one too. I may go check out some other videos of yours to get a better idea. It just looked, at first, like you were pulling your left hand away before you shot when typically, a player just shoots out of the hand, so to speak.

That left hand, ideally, should be along the side of the ball and stationary as you're pushing through with your right. There seems to be a slight flick and splay when looking in slow motion. If you pull the left away, it could lead to some last second instability.

Here's a good example of where the left hand should be throughout the entire process. If you play this shot in slow motion and pause throughout, you'll see Rip's left (his guide) is involved and sticking around for the entire process, until the right arm begins moving upward. Even then, the left stays put - it doesn't release or jut away and off to the side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLA78Qb3fg#t=2m0s

^That clip's also a good reference of where the shooting hand should be as well. A tight finish where both arms remain present in the motion, not spread outward and floating away.

Steve Nash is another guy who serves as an example of squared feet and an offhand that stays in it through the process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9Q7zNRgGo

Quote:
As far as my right hand do you want my follow through to be stiff? Am I moving it too early? I appreciate the feedback. It's weird because some people say I have textbook form, and others say it looks like I'm shooting from the top of my head. It's hard to guage what's going on. One thing that is consistent that I hear is that I don't use my legs. I bend my knees to power my shot, so that's confusing as well.
As I said, I'll try to take a few more looks, but a lot of your shot may be affected by the drastic placement of your feet, shoulders and hips. By being squared nearly to the opposite sideline, it may be tough to twist and elevate to the best of your abilities.

Further, the placement of the ball, to accommodate for your non-square, must be moved toward the side of your body and head, which may be part of the reason for the slight "from the top of my head" look.

Still, folks are right - you clearly have a ton of the aspects in line. Your shot features a solid, singular motion.
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgz V2
follow the BEEF rule

Balance: you look offset from the beginning. all great shooters will tell you a consistent jumpshot comes from the ground up. your feet can be slight offset but your hips and shoulders have to be square with the rim. you should be aiming with your right hip, but both hips need to be square or else your basically guessing.

Elbow: from your triple threat motion to above your head, your shooting elbow needs to be locked in an L. not so intensely to make your arm tired but enough so that there is NO hinging in your elbow during you shooting motion.

Eye: ball should be released above eye level. elbow on follow through should be above eye level. this will remind you to keep your follow through high and give you a good arc on your shot. You don't seem to be having a problem with this though.

Follow-through: from what I can see you are already doing an okay job with this, but try and exaggerate the snap in your wrist. if you load your wrist back with the ball sort of like this:

[IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/BwdTZMJ7TKTlnOMGzw0AIiCLSb000lqLUJ1*deQkUOX8sToiCc 4r2*K39*g0qPFjIgHa5e2sr3L4F6ix*igBJr0xsIH1pR*p/tumblr_lp7hahRRPM1qejjw5o1_500.jpg?width=390&heigh t=600[/IMG]

...your wrist muscles will naturally snap your hand forward. you will get a better follow through by loading your wrist as far as you can. if you can see wrinkles on the back of your hand you will know youre doing it right.

you don't have the worst shot ive ever seen, so these are really basic principles you can use to make some tweaks. some posters before have posted themselves shooting and they need much more work than you. You just have run through this check list in your mind while youre practicing and after a while your body will do the work for you. Train your muscle memory so that this becomes second nature for you

See all this time I figured I was squared just with feet slightly turned left, how exactly do you square up your shoulders, and hips to the basket. I figured im facing the basket so naturally wouldn't your body be squared already?
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:04 AM   #12
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Gonna upload a video of me shooting 100 mid range jumpers.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Your feet are relatively fine, there are hardly any great shooters who have their feet square with the basket as it locks up the body and makes your "eye aim" out of alignment with the basket. It's the same reason people in other aiming sports don't square up to their target, think darts and rifle shooting.

What finger is your last to touch the ball? Make sure that finger goes in the middle of the basket. Preferably you'd like your pointing finger for this, but it can take a long time to get used to that as it has to be in the middle of the ball.

You start off with the ball too far away from your body, this makes your shot lose power and probably you have to overcompensate for that making you miss all around the basket.
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
Your feet are relatively fine, there are hardly any great shooters who have their feet square with the basket as it locks up the body and makes your "eye aim" out of alignment with the basket. It's the same reason people in other aiming sports don't square up to their target, think darts and rifle shooting.
Respectfully, I am unsure I entirely agree with your statement. In fact, I'd argue that many of the greatest shooters we've ever seen have been those who square their feet with the basket. To name a random few, just off the top of one's head:

Tim Legler & Steve Kerr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqC08Fjp_s

Richard Hamilton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx6grn2XRFQ

Ray Allen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14NfQNJj7pQ

Steve Nash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9Q7zNRgGo

Kenny Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlW-x-5KCs4

I believe there are many ways to crack an egg - and a crooked footed shot can be mastered (I think Carmelo and Durant may both be examples) but if those crooked feet are leading to an entire body shift away from the hoop - or resulting in a lack of leg power from the crooked nature of one's body - I think that can be an issue. And because of an amateur player's tendency to take their body toward where their feet are pointing (and inconsistently trying to overcompensate as a result) - not to mention the balance issues it often presents, it's not a base I tend to encourage.

That said, I suppose I'd have to receive clarification as to what is inferred by "locks up the body" though, because for me, I want my shooters to lock in. I'm trying to limit all the extracurricular activity many try to bring into the shooting process. And again, one of the easiest ways I've been able to achieve that (ditto with the likes of Kerr, Nash, & Allen) is to square up with the feet. If the feet are square and the elbow's in, it's actually a pretty simple process that can readily lead to sharpshooting consistency.

Again though, I can't stress it enough, there's many different ways to go about developing a killer stroke - and it can still definitely happen with feet not square. But if I'm trying to establish someone's shooting ability - I'll likely be searching for something standard, easy and reliable - and that's what squaring up will do. I do not believe it's coincidence that Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, & Kenny Smith are amongst the "feet square" group. It's not the only way, but it's certainly an effective one.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 01-08-2015 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Help with jumper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Respectfully, I am unsure I entirely agree with your statement. In fact, I'd argue that many of the greatest shooters we've ever seen have been those who square their feet with the basket. To name a random few, just off the top of one's head:

Tim Legler & Steve Kerr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqC08Fjp_s

Richard Hamilton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx6grn2XRFQ

Ray Allen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14NfQNJj7pQ

Steve Nash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9Q7zNRgGo

Kenny Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlW-x-5KCs4

I believe there are many ways to crack an egg - and a crooked footed shot can be mastered (I think Carmelo and Durant may both be examples) but if those crooked feet are leading to an entire body shift away from the hoop - or resulting in a lack of leg power from the crooked nature of one's body - I think that can be an issue. And because of an amateur player's tendency to take their body toward where their feet are pointing (and inconsistently trying to overcompensate as a result) - not to mention the balance issues it often presents, it's not a base I tend to encourage.

That said, I suppose I'd have to receive clarification as to what is inferred by "locks up the body" though, because for me, I want my shooters to lock in. I'm trying to limit all the extracurricular activity many try to bring into the shooting process. And again, one of the easiest ways I've been able to achieve that (ditto with the likes of Kerr, Nash, & Allen) is to square up with the feet. If the feet are square and the elbow's in, it's actually a pretty simple process that can readily lead to sharpshooting consistency.

Again though, I can't stress it enough, there's many different ways to go about developing a killer stroke - and it can still definitely happen with feet not square. But if I'm trying to establish someone's shooting ability - I'll likely be searching for something standard, easy and reliable - and that's what squaring up will do. I do not believe it's coincidence that Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, & Kenny Smith are amongst the "feet square" group. It's not the only way, but it's certainly an effective one.

I pressed the Steve Nash link, to me his feet are pointing towards the camera.

I know we've had this discussion before and we probably wont agree :) , but at the very least if your feet start out by pointing dead on towards the hoop your feet has to turn in the air away from the the hoop as your body turns with it and your right shoulder pushes towards the hoop along with the ball.

From what I have seen, basically none of the great shooters land with their feet pointing towards the hoop.



I think this pictures illustrates pretty well what I mean as the photographer is clearly along the FT line. If your postulate is that Nash starts out square to the hoop then you can clearly see that he is twisting his body along with his right shoulder and feet which launches the ball towards the hoop.
This way his line of goes elbow - finger - hoop.

Last edited by ZenMaster : 01-08-2015 at 08:01 PM.
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