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Old 01-21-2014, 01:27 AM   #151
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT... nobody said EVERYBODY calls NBA players thugs...

I said there is a double standard between hockey fighting and fighting in the other major sports


Then who calls them thugs then? What your honky friends? I've heard people stereotype hockey players as knucklehead goons. It goes both ways.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:28 AM   #152
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Ya the motivation for this whole thread of b!tching is racial sensitivity. The idea that black athletes throwing a punch or two in the NFL/NBA are chastised as ignorant uncontrollable, primitive beings versus white guys doing it in a controlled, monitored and strategic and not being perceived as athletes with a criminal mindset. Mainly it's just an adopted slight of injustice from dudes who see race before everything. They believe the 'White mass public' turns a cheek to similar acts from other white people.

Its not about the sport. It's about the skin color that dominates the sport. Meanwhile, Richard Sherman yells at viewers all over America in a post game and people are dumbfounded why the status quo, unspectacular everyday unenlightened viewer took offense to his behavior. All the sudden, it's just another instance of race being attacked and not just ignorant thoughts and feelings towards that particular guy.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:42 AM   #153
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
Then who calls them thugs then? What your honky friends? I've heard people stereotype hockey players as knucklehead goons. It goes both ways.


it doesnt go both ways ....

you cannot be blind enough to post on a basketball board and not be aware that a portion of society label NBA players as "thugs" for their on court behavior (mostly because of the fighting and the clothes they wear)

Hockey fans call some hockey players goons.. But they don't have the vitriol that they have for an NBA player (or nfl player) who would fight during a game...

Again, look at Sherman.. He is a "thug" and a "scumbag" (and other things) simply because of his rant on sunday.. God forbid if he had actually gotten into a fight..

People would be looking for charges to be brought against him...

you cant act like the idea of fighting in hockey and the idea of fighting of in the NBA are the same... They are obviously 2 totally different entities...

I know there is a move within the NHL to get rid of fighting.... but most "goons" in hockey don't even have any talent

There are no players in other sports who occupy so much space simply for their "goonery"
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:49 AM   #154
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
seeing the double standard is not a "major hyperbole" .. I know hocke fans who are also NBA fans.. They have told me how the NBA has a "thug" problem and that is why people have gone away from the NBA.. They tell me about protecting their kids from the bad influences of the "thugs" in the NBA..

I laugh at them, but they think they make make sense

Like I said (in case you missed that part).. I understand that hockey has a place, and controls for fighting... But that doesn't mean that there is a moral, societal difference between fighting in hockey and fighting in other sports..

it is simply a double standard

A double standard implies that both situations are of uniform circumstances. Hockey = physical contact sport Basketball = Skilled Athletic Sport

Hockey has tons of skill just as basketball can be physical but the discretion is pretty wide between the two. In basketball, the peak is to maybe commit a hard foul, a flagrant. That's the pinnacle of sending a message. In hockey, it's throwing an illegal hit to set the tone or squaring up and beating the shit out of the other guy's face. They are not on equal ground.

As for the 'NBA fans' who cry thug, there prolly is a degree of unwanted judgment and racism on their part or just plain dismissal of what's more 'mainstream' to viewership on ESPN and stuff. I'll say this: Hardcore NHL fans have a complex because they feel very passionate about the game and feel it doesn't get the coverage it deserves on major networks. Hockey fans are smaller in numbers but are typically way more knowledgable and loyal than the average NBA or NFL fan who cheer but with varying degrees of prior support and team knowledge.

Hockey fans can be quick to be monolithic and dismiss the major 3 sports becuz they resent that it takes away from NHL coverage. I've seen hockey psychos look for any reason to downplay the awesomeness of basketball or baseball or whatever just because they are biased and want to trump up THEIR main passion. That could have a lot to do with that kind of talk. Those people aren't who I was referring to as well balanced, open minded, knowledgable long term sports fans.

Last edited by ROCSteady : 01-21-2014 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:50 AM   #155
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCSteady
Ya the motivation for this whole thread of b!tching is racial sensitivity. The idea that black athletes throwing a punch or two in the NFL/NBA are chastised as ignorant uncontrollable, primitive beings versus white guys doing it in a controlled, monitored and strategic and not being perceived as athletes with a criminal mindset. Mainly it's just an adopted slight of injustice from dudes who see race before everything. They believe the 'White mass public' turns a cheek to similar acts from other white people.

Its not about the sport. It's about the skin color that dominates the sport. Meanwhile, Richard Sherman yells at viewers all over America in a post game and people are dumbfounded why the status quo, unspectacular everyday unenlightened viewer took offense to his behavior. All the sudden, it's just another instance of race being attacked and not just ignorant thoughts and feelings towards that particular guy.


we all live here in America and we all know (in our hearts) what is actually going on..

you are right to a large degree... "It's about the skin color that dominates the sport"


in one sport? fights are epic and the stuff of legend...

In another? when fights break out, it is a sign of thuggery and the decline of society itself
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:56 AM   #156
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCSteady
A double standard implies that both situations are of uniform circumstances. Hockey = physical contact sport Basketball = Skilled Athletic Sport

Hockey has tons of skill just as basketball can be physical but the discretion is pretty wide between the two. In basketball, the peak is to maybe commit a hard foul, a flagrant. That's the pinnacle of sending a message. In hockey, it's throwing an illegal hit to set the tone or squaring up and beating the shit out of the other guy's face. They are not on equal ground.

As for the 'NBA fans' who cry thug, there prolly is a degree of unwanted judgment and racism on their part or just plain dismissal of what's more 'mainstream' to viewership on ESPN and stuff. I'll say this: Hardcore NHL fans have a complex because they feel very passionate about the game and feel it doesn't get the coverage it deserves on major networks. Hockey fans are smaller in numbers but are typically way more knowledgable and loyal than the average NBA or NFL fan who cheer but with varying degrees of prior support and team knowledge.

Hockey fans can be quick to be monolithic and dismiss the major 3 sports becuz they resent that it takes away from NHL coverage. I've seen hockey psychos look for any reason to downplay the awesomeness of basketball or baseball or whatever just because they are bias and want to trump up THEIR main passion. That could have a lot to do with that kind of talk. Those people aren't who I was referring to as well balanced, open minded, knowledgable long term sports fans.

I m not talking about fans who only follow hockey... I will accept that a lot of them like the fighting in the sport and they wouldn't understand the difference I am talking about.. I can understand why they believe fighting should exist in their sport and I wouldn't respect their opinion enough about the other sports to give it any thought..


Im talking about the multi sport fan who lives in Philly.. Who lives in NY, Detroit, Boston and other major cities..

I think you know what is being talked about, but whatever.....
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:03 AM   #157
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

I feel you are being dramatic in that assertion. The fights on ice are whatever to people who are used to them and only sensationalized dramatic dumbasses will make a huge deal over a punch being thrown by a WR or CB. Even a NBA team 'fight' (more often one or two swings and some shoving) isn't seen anymore deplorable than a bench clearing brawl in the MLB, which is majorly Hispanic with both blacks, whites, couple Asians mixed in.

I rarely see any competent sports fans think society is crumbling if two lineman get into it or a dude takes exception to a hard foul. Some get pumped by it, some just say whatever. Only shitheads think it's ruining America.

Sounds like you are just very sensitive to how blacks are viewed in sports. Sherman deserved much of the scorn he got, short of being known as a N--ger. People don't enjoy having irritating voices screaming at their television after seeing a dude's team make it to the Super Bowl.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:10 AM   #158
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
I m not talking about fans who only follow hockey... I will accept that a lot of them like the fighting in the sport and they wouldn't understand the difference I am talking about.. I can understand why they believe fighting should exist in their sport and I wouldn't respect their opinion enough about the other sports to give it any thought..


Im talking about the multi sport fan who lives in Philly.. Who lives in NY, Detroit, Boston and other major cities..

I think you know what is being talked about, but whatever.....

Yea, you take exception to judgment of viewers who don't respect a black athlete's background or hip hop imagery and wait to degrade them when they lose their cool. I get that. It sucks and pisses me off too that so many don't follow a great thing like NBA basketball because of petty aesthetics.

However, some dudes that are pro black athletes just project body language that people think isn't professional at the pro level. Some guys also have bad attitudes and just project something that isn't accessible to the blue collar everyman.

I do not like the dismissal of great athletes based on hair, tats, scowls, etc. but some guys earn a poor reputation for very legit reasons that aren't rooted in learned racism or bigotry.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:17 AM   #159
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCSteady
I feel you are being dramatic in that assertion. The fights on ice are whatever to people who are used to them and only sensationalized dramatic dumbasses will make a huge deal over a punch being thrown by a WR or CB. Even a NBA team 'fight' (more often one or two swings and some shoving) isn't seen anymore deplorable than a bench clearing brawl in the MLB, which is majorly Hispanic with both blacks, whites, couple Asians mixed in.

I rarely see any competent sports fans think society is crumbling if two lineman get into it or a dude takes exception to a hard foul. Some get pumped by it, some just say whatever. Only shitheads think it's ruining America.

Sounds like you are just very sensitive to how blacks are viewed in sports. Sherman deserved much of the scorn he got, short of being known as a N--ger. People don't enjoy having irritating voices screaming at their television after seeing a dude's team make it to the Super Bowl.


I think Sherman's "rants" are ugly myself...

But I don't think they merit the attention it has gotten.. NFL is an intense league and I would expect at least that much intensity to be inside any player..

Im actually glad that there are players like Sherman to show me that it does indeed exist...

The double standard when it comes to fighting in Hockey is obvious and it doesn't take much sensitivity to see it...

like I said a few times..I can understand people who only love hockey.. I can that some of them love fighting and they don't want it taken away..

the other stuff is just a double standard when it comes to how players and the sport itself are viewed..

hell David Stern felt it was necessary to institute a dress code in the NBA to stop the "thug" talk...

Im saying the line between "thug" and normal human being is a lot different depending on which sport you watch..

you said it yourself "It's about the skin color that dominates the sport" a lot of times
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:19 AM   #160
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
it doesnt go both ways ....

you cannot be blind enough to post on a basketball board and not be aware that a portion of society label NBA players as "thugs" for their on court behavior (mostly because of the fighting and the clothes they wear)

Hockey fans call some hockey players goons.. But they don't have the vitriol that they have for an NBA player (or nfl player) who would fight during a game...

Again, look at Sherman.. He is a "thug" and a "scumbag" (and other things) simply because of his rant on sunday.. God forbid if he had actually gotten into a fight..

People would be looking for charges to be brought against him...

you cant act like the idea of fighting in hockey and the idea of fighting of in the NBA are the same... They are obviously 2 totally different entities...

I know there is a move within the NHL to get rid of fighting.... but most "goons" in hockey don't even have any talent

There are no players in other sports who occupy so much space simply for their "goonery"

If I based my world perspective off what gets said on this board or by sports writers then that would be stupid. Lol.

Are Doc Rivers and KJ looked at as thugs to the general public? What about Barkley and Shaq? Not every player who fights in the nba is considered a thug. Bottom line. In fact when was the last time fights broke out in the NBA and people started playing the thug card?

If we are basing our perspectives off of message board trolls, and dipshit sports writers paid to ruffle feathers, then you can find ignorant comments on about almost anything.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:27 AM   #161
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
If I based my world perspective off what gets said on this board or by sports writers then that would be stupid. Lol.

Are Doc Rivers and KJ looked at as thugs to the general public? What about Barkley and Shaq? Not every player who fights in the nba is considered a thug. Bottom line. In fact when was the last time fights broke out in the NBA and people started playing the thug card?

If we are basing our perspectives off of message board trolls, and dipshit sports writers paid to ruffle feathers, then you can find ignorant comments on almost about anything.


no.. its more of an amalgamation of people I know and media and websites like this one right here

another thing I have learned (especially regarding the NBA) is that perceptions change with time...

I can remember when Scottie Pippen was hated because he refused to go into a play that was designed for toni Kuoc.. People swore he would never live it down, but he did..

Kobe? rape charges? he lived those down.. So Im saying that opinions change and I am mostly speaking of visceral reactions than long lasting opinions of players


people love shaq and Barkley now.. they are hall of famers... But barkley was pariah at times in his career (he deserved some of it, but he lived it down)

Im just saying that society is pretty quick to make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to fighting in some sports, but not others
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:33 AM   #162
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
it doesnt go both ways ....

It does. No matter the sport, the race, the player etc. there are insults used towards them. Just because you get your panties in a bunch over "thug" more so than a word like goon or meathead that also attacks somebody's morals and intelligence doesn't mean it only goes one way..

Quote:
you cannot be blind enough to post on a basketball board and not be aware that a portion of society label NBA players as "thugs" for their on court behavior (mostly because of the fighting and the clothes they wear)

What's this have to do with fighting in sports? Alot of the shit your talking about has nothing to do with it. NBA players are called thugs because there covered in tattoo's, have off court trouble, clothes as you said, who they hang out with. Such as somebody like Carmelo showing up in Stop Snitching Stop Lying or Steven Jackson throwing up gang signs. A few idiots like J.R Smith get the entire NBA labeled thugs. It's wrong and I agree, but that has nothing to do with fighting. NHL players make less money, aren't in the media as much, haven't had the same off court problems as a Kobe, Big Ben, O.J etc.

Even than it still exists in hockey. Tyler Sequin got a really bad rap for being a punk who partied too much and was traded, he was targeted in the media too. People like you and Go Getter just don't know enough about the sport so your blind about it. He wasn't called a "thug" all tho I'm pretty sure he's actually covered in stupid tattoo's so that probably is a race thing

Quote:
Hockey fans call some hockey players goons.. But they don't have the vitriol that they have for an NBA player (or nfl player) who would fight during a game...

I've actually never seen many fights in the NFL/NBA but I'm only 22. I can think of a few. Something like the Andre Johnson one, I personally don't care about. Look at that compared to an average hockey fight. Did Finnegan even throw a legit punch back? I love emotion in sports and I didn't care but alot of people really don't like seeing unwilling fights. Cortland was playing chippy, pushing and ripping the helmet but dude didn't actually fight back did he?

Same with the NBA. Look at that Nick Young situation recently. That's not a fight. He was surrounded by the entire team, threw a half punch and retreated. His own teammate Kendall Marshall was like ten feet back and didn't want any part of it.

I think that's a big thing. NHL players want to fight, NBA/NFL don't. I think there content with just pushing and shoving usually. When they get eachothers face they don't want to full out "drop the mitts".

Even than I don't know many people who get upset at offensive linemen pushing eachother or really anything surrounding the NFL. I've heard people say NBA players look stupid and sometimes they do during scrums. KG playing tough guy, getting on his knees and barking and never actually fighting? Most people won't like that..

Quote:
Again, look at Sherman.. He is a "thug" and a "scumbag" (and other things) simply because of his rant on sunday.. God forbid if he had actually gotten into a fight..

I found it entertaining, he looked completely crazy tho. White, black, yellow, NBA, NHL and I think that's obvious to anyone.

Quote:
People would be looking for charges to be brought against him...

Kinda like Patrick Roy's son when he got involved with another goalie who didn't want to fight back? What about Todd Bertuzzi for that huge sucker punch on Steve Moore? Dude's still in court I believe. Still gets boo'd and hate to this day. I've actually seen people use "thug" with him before. Nasty play and got what he deserved...

Quote:
you cant act like the idea of fighting in hockey and the idea of fighting of in the NBA are the same... They are obviously 2 totally different entities...


Doesn't even need to be said, only on ISH.

Quote:
I know there is a move within the NHL to get rid of fighting.... but most "goons" in hockey don't even have any talent

There is. They'll probably succeed eventually, like years and years down the road because of how intertwined it is within the NHL. Ehhh yeah there are some left. Nowhere near where it use to be. You still have your enforces but it's a dying breed. True enforcers get scratched and sit in the press box when not needed. Bottom 6 guy's like Chris Neil and Jordan Tootoo can do other things besides fights.

Quote:
There are no players in other sports who occupy so much space simply for their "goonery"

Not really these days. Most guys are useful and fill a 4th line checking roll. NBA players get called thugs because teams like NY sign Chris Smith for no reason other than J.R wanting them too. Fighting is apart of the game thus fighters are needed but like I said these days there's hardly a shit load of true enforcers that do nothing but fight..

Last edited by NuggetsFan : 01-21-2014 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:37 AM   #163
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Human beings are quick to judge, very reactionary. In short, we aren't the most sophisticated creatures when we watch our sports. I agree that we beat these 'deviant' behaviors to death. The media are vultures that often enjoy the sensationalism or character assassination of an intriguing or colorful figure.

The surprising thing about today and yesterday is that very few talking heads on the networks were laying into Sherman. They treated him very decent compared to how the general public now see him. I give them kudos for that despite the oversaturation.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:46 AM   #164
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
no.. its more of an amalgamation of people I know and media and websites like this one right here

another thing I have learned (especially regarding the NBA) is that perceptions change with time...

I can remember when Scottie Pippen was hated because he refused to go into a play that was designed for toni Kuoc.. People swore he would never live it down, but he did..

Kobe? rape charges? he lived those down.. So Im saying that opinions change and I am mostly speaking of visceral reactions than long lasting opinions of players


people love shaq and Barkley now.. they are hall of famers... But barkley was pariah at times in his career (he deserved some of it, but he lived it down)

Im just saying that society is pretty quick to make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to fighting in some sports, but not others


Hockey is essentially less popular, with less media coverage than basketball, football, and baseball. Hockey has a long history of fights which are legal within the rules of the sport so people are desensitized, and even then there are people who still disapprove of it. Baseball allows dugout clearing brawls to keep taking place for some reason, so Hockey isn't the only sport with their own weird code when it comes to fighting. People can be ignorant, yes. Also double standards can exist especially when comparing apples to oranges, so suck it up put on your big boy pants and get used to it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:50 AM   #165
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1

hell David Stern felt it was necessary to institute a dress code in the NBA to stop the "thug" talk...

Im saying the line between "thug" and normal human being is a lot different depending on which sport you watch..

you said it yourself "It's about the skin color that dominates the sport" a lot of times

I don't see why the dress code was so oppressive to the players. These dudes work in a multimillion dollar industry. Image is ALWAYS stressed in big business where commerce is large. Sure it's a basketball game but they are still employees of multi million dollar corporations. What's wrong with being required to dress business-casual when you are on the clock representing your organization? Don't see it as persecution to individual identity.
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