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Old 01-20-2014, 03:22 PM   #121
Norcaliblunt
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Getter



Cupcake penalties? People get suspended for games that results in the loss of thousands of dollars.


Hockey players are the only athletes that get a slap on the wrist for fighting.

You are not automatically penalized for leaving the dugout in a baseball brawl like you are for leaving the bench in the NBA. Major League Baseball continues to allow dugout clearing brawls to be apart of the game for some reason.

And for the thousandth time, fighting is apart of the sport historically/traditionally and within the rules of Hockey, and people still look at it negatively. As for perception, all you have to do is play hockey while not even being an enforcer or brawler, and people have stereotypes about you being some rugged toothless goon. Quit acting like hockey is looked at in some fashionable light.

Lastly I find it interesting that basketball is the only team sport I can think of off the top of my head where a team can commit a penalty and benefit from it. You can commit fouls in hope the other team misses the free throws in all sorts of different situations such as hack a Shaq, players going hard in the paint, and end of the game scenarios. How is committing penalties aka breaking the rules supposed to help you win? BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THE GAME.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:36 PM   #122
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
You are not automatically penalized for leaving the dugout in a baseball brawl like you are for leaving the bench in the NBA. Major League Baseball continues to allow dugout clearing brawls to be apart of the game for some reason.

And for the thousandth time, fighting is apart of the sport historically/traditionally and within the rules of Hockey, and people still look at it negatively. As for perception, all you have to do is play hockey while not even being an enforcer or brawler, and people have stereotypes about you being some rugged toothless goon. Quit acting like hockey is looked at in some fashionable light.

Lastly I find it interesting that basketball is the only team sport I can think of off the top of my head where a team can commit a penalty and benefit from it. You can commit fouls in hope the other team misses the free throws in all sorts of different situations such as hack a Shaq, players going hard in the paint, and end of the game scenarios. How is committing penalties aka breaking the rules supposed to help you win? BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THE GAME.

Don't bother. He's blindly talking about something he has no idea about and actually thinks he's making sense.

Doesn't matter what reasons you give. I think a big thing with perception is country for sure. Hockey is Canada's game much like the NBA/NFL is American. Alot of Americans don't grow up with hockey as much therefore the concept of fighting seems crazy where as everywhere in Canada are comfortable with it. Therefore the people in and around hockey perceive the players differently when they fight where in the NBA people are NOT comfortable with fighting therefore when it happens those fans attack it.

Quote:
Here's bottom line: Whether u like or hate CGY-VAN line brawl - plenty of views both way - it's "accepted" in NHL with prescribed penalties.

- Bob McKezie. Basically our guy at the ESPN of hockey, since you know ESPN could give a shit about it. Big analyst at TSN.

What Go Getter can't grasp is people will call some guys out for it. They will get called goons. Coaches will get heat. Players will be perceived differently. Even with fighting being apart of the game it still happens. You just have no idea about hockey.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:46 PM   #123
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Maybe if NBA players didn't have a rep for throwing bitch ass sucker punches in fights they wouldn't get hated on so much.



Or maybe, just maybe, its as simple as 6'8 dudes pack such a heavier punch than the average 5'10 to 6'1 sized guys in other sports that its wise to not allow them to potentially KO a fool and wreck his career.

Its not like you can punch a guy as hard on skates like you can on an NBA court. Even baseball fights tend to end in a tackle in the dirt more than anything.

Hell, I once saw Shaq take a swing at Brad Miller after he had turned his head and started walking the other way. Had Shaq connected it probably would have killed Miller.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:52 PM   #124
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Don't bother. He's blindly talking about something he has no idea about and actually thinks he's making sense.

Doesn't matter what reasons you give. I think a big thing with perception is country for sure. Hockey is Canada's game much like the NBA/NFL is American. Alot of Americans don't grow up with hockey as much therefore the concept of fighting seems crazy where as everywhere in Canada are comfortable with it. Therefore the people in and around hockey perceive the players differently when they fight where in the NBA people are NOT comfortable with fighting therefore when it happens those fans attack it.



- Bob McKezie. Basically our guy at the ESPN of hockey, since you know ESPN could give a shit about it. Big analyst at TSN.

What Go Getter can't grasp is people will call some guys out for it. They will get called goons. Coaches will get heat. Players will be perceived differently. Even with fighting being apart of the game it still happens. You just have no idea about hockey.

I get it. And I ACCEPT it. Hell, I even LIKE it. But I still think that it's hypocritical that we view ball players as thugs for their image and speech yet hockey players are seen as tough for fighting and knocking each other's teeth out.

I agree that I do not know about hockey which is why I am asking...I appreciate you guys explaining your POV to me the best you can and being respectful and patient with me.

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:54 PM   #125
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
Maybe if NBA players didn't have a rep for throwing bitch ass sucker punches in fights they wouldn't get hated on so much.



Or maybe, just maybe, its as simple as 6'8 dudes pack such a heavier punch than the average 5'10 to 6'1 sized guys in other sports that its wise to not allow them to potentially KO a fool and wreck his career.

Its not like you can punch a guy as hard on skates like you can on an NBA court. Even baseball fights tend to end in a tackle in the dirt more than anything.

Hell, I once saw Shaq take a swing at Brad Miller after he had turned his head and started walking the other way. Had Shaq connected it probably would have killed Miller.


C'mon man hockey players cheap shot each other in the nuts and break sticks over each other's bodies....
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:06 PM   #126
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

I think pure Hockey fans appreciate the fighting as a "part of the game" and don't differentiate the way other fans who go between Hockey and other sports do..

some people love hockey fighting, but act like a fight in basketball is a sign of societal decay..

"I wont be taking my kids to any more NBA games... Too much thuggish behavior"

But the same mofo will rave about an "epic" hockey fight and not view it as a moral problem...
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:08 PM   #127
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
I think pure Hockey fans appreciate the fighting as a "part of the game" and don't differentiate the way other fans who go between Hockey and other sports do..

some people love hockey fighting, but act like a fight in basketball is a sign of societal decay..

"I wont be taking my kids to any more NBA games... Too much thuggish behavior"

But the same mofo will rave about an "epic" hockey fight and not view it as a moral problem...


Exactly my point.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:11 PM   #128
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
I think pure Hockey fans appreciate the fighting as a "part of the game" and don't differentiate the way other fans who go between Hockey and other sports do..

some people love hockey fighting, but act like a fight in basketball is a sign of societal decay..

"I wont be taking my kids to any more NBA games... Too much thuggish behavior"

But the same mofo will rave about an "epic" hockey fight and not view it as a moral problem...

And the mofo would be kinda correct. A fight on the basketball court is assault, it doesn't exist within the game of basketball. It does within hockey, right or wrong whatever your opinion is it still doesn't change the fact that fighting is included in the sport of hockey.

As a fan of both that's the difference. Melo suckering somebody is like uhhh what's happening this is basketball. Two guys dropping the gloves and both willingly accepting to fight is hockey. You grew up with it, you've seen it and it's as common as anything. Not the case with basketball.

Look at basketball scrums. It's like 4 vs 1 .. sucker punches .. complete and utter confusion .. guys trying to fight players who don't want to fight back. Now that happens in hockey at times too and when it does it's treated EXACTLY the same as it is in basketball.

Look at the brawl he's talking about. Everybody squares off 1 vs 1, everybody is willing, after the fight nobody needs to be calmed down or dragged off the floor like with basketball players. A hockey fight is controlled chaos and when it isn't it's dealt with, fighting in basketball is just pure chaos that would need to be dealt with every single time.

People defend and include the "good" hockey fights. I remember seeing a junior game with Patrick Roy's son. He's a goalie and got in a fight with an unwilling participant. He was charged with assault I'm pretty sure, can't count how many times I've seen NBA players to runs at guys who want no part in it.

NHL players like and want to fight, NFL/NBA probably don't
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:12 PM   #129
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Maybe because hockey it seems they actually respect eachother (after fights they tap heads) in basketball everyone is p*ssies and they act like a bunch of pre madonnas
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:21 PM   #130
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Jeez this thread is so pointless now. Multiple people explained fighting in the fabric of hockey and why it isn't a pointless display of goonary (although there have been multiple acts of downright assault in hockey, not cool) but thick skulls wanna cry about double standards.

This thread really just comes down to racial sensitivity. OP and other people have gotten it explained in many ways in various forms but still can't just accept that dudes swinging on a basketball court simply isn't the same thing as it is in a sport where physical contact and intimidation plays a role in every game. It's like they want Rev Al Sharpton to come out and condemn the white Canadian/Euro sport for unjust racial perceptions.

It's mainly black dudes in here still sensitive that black dudes get seen as feral and impulsive or angry when they throw punches in sports where it's not accepted. It's often an unfair stereotype but what else needs to be said about fighting in hockey vs. basketball? OP's objection to fighting in hockey as having a palpable cause and effect is his plea for whites and blacks to be seen in the same light, despite how the dynamics of the sports differ.

Last edited by ROCSteady : 01-20-2014 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:40 PM   #131
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by ROCSteady
Jeez this thread is so pointless now. Multiple people explained fighting in the fabric of hockey and why it isn't a pointless display of goonary (although there have been multiple acts of downright assault in hockey, not cool) but thick skulls wanna cry about double standards.

This thread really just comes down to racial sensitivity. OP and other people have gotten it explained in many ways in various forms but still can't just accept that dudes swinging on a basketball court simply isn't the same thing as it is in a sport where physical contact and intimidation plays a role in every game. It's like they want Rev Al Sharpton to come out and condemn the white Canadian/Euro sport for unjust racial perceptions.

It's mainly black dudes in here still sensitive that black dudes get seen as feral and impulsive or angry when they throw punches in sports where it's not accepted. It's often an unfair stereotype but what else needs to be said about fighting in hockey vs. basketball? OP's objection to fighting in hockey as having a palpable cause and effect is his plea for whites and blacks to be seen in the same light, despite how the dynamics of the sports differ.

1. I have stated thatI like hockey, went to a hockey school, and watched the Blackhawks beat the Bruins in a thrilling shootout a few days ago. I don't want the sport to change.

2. Don't project your bullshit on me. There is nothing about hockey that requires fighting. The aim is to score more goals. Fighting in sports is thuggery no matter if it be NBA/MLB/NHL/Soccer.

3. The only sports where fighting should be permissible is MMA, martial arts, wrestling, and boxing.

4. America unfairly labels black and latino men "thugs" for their appearance but the ACTIONS of hockey players [such as fighting at the beginning of the game and not playing] are not seen as thug-like -- people are making excuses for this poor behavior.


That is a well-thought out rebuttal to fighting in hockey. It is not based in racial hatred it is based in logic. Please refer to brother Rasheed1's post as well.

I do not hate anyone and I plan on going to a hockey game next week. My son wants to play hockey so I'm learning more about the rules and culture.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:00 AM   #132
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

1.) Claiming not wanting to change the sport contradicts with your #3 statement.

2.)It doesn't require fighting but it does serve a definite purpose to the guys on the ice, at higher levels. It rallies a group and hockey, above all sports, hockey teams have a greater camraderie (outside goaltender) than all team sports, due in part to the protection and sense of duty guys have for each other. I'm not even a dude who gets off on the fights when I watch NHL games but I did play the game.

3.) You are not an authority on what should be accepted and not accepted in a rough, physical and emotional sport where checking/hitting guys to get them tired is strategy. Dudes looking to punch each other out to intensify their team is also strategy. Why is that so hard to understand?

4.)Hockey fans do not give a pass to guys who aim to do nothing but fight. Goons are looked at with disdain by the majority of hockey purists. They are looked at the same way a dirty player like Suh is seen by the opposition. Even lower becuz fans know these guys don't offer much in terms of playmaking. Big white Canadien farm boys who only get on ice to fight ARE seen as thugs and goons as it pertains to the sport by people who actually know hockey enough to know their role. The White America you are referring to are oblivious to the nuances of the sport, they can't call these guys thugs because they don't know their purpose or even who the hell they are.

Good look to your son in his pursuit of playing the game and good luck with understanding and enjoying the intensity that hockey parents are subjected to. Ice hockey was by far the most fun sport to play for me but I never tried football.

Last edited by ROCSteady : 01-21-2014 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:19 AM   #133
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
And the mofo would be kinda correct. A fight on the basketball court is assault, it doesn't exist within the game of basketball. It does within hockey, right or wrong whatever your opinion is it still doesn't change the fact that fighting is included in the sport of hockey.

As a fan of both that's the difference. Melo suckering somebody is like uhhh what's happening this is basketball. Two guys dropping the gloves and both willingly accepting to fight is hockey. You grew up with it, you've seen it and it's as common as anything. Not the case with basketball.

Look at basketball scrums. It's like 4 vs 1 .. sucker punches .. complete and utter confusion .. guys trying to fight players who don't want to fight back. Now that happens in hockey at times too and when it does it's treated EXACTLY the same as it is in basketball.

Look at the brawl he's talking about. Everybody squares off 1 vs 1, everybody is willing, after the fight nobody needs to be calmed down or dragged off the floor like with basketball players. A hockey fight is controlled chaos and when it isn't it's dealt with, fighting in basketball is just pure chaos that would need to be dealt with every single time.

People defend and include the "good" hockey fights. I remember seeing a junior game with Patrick Roy's son. He's a goalie and got in a fight with an unwilling participant. He was charged with assault I'm pretty sure, can't count how many times I've seen NBA players to runs at guys who want no part in it.

NHL players like and want to fight, NFL/NBA probably don't

Oh please..

BBall fights are not all sucker punches and some kind of shady sh*t...

guys do much worse in hockey games tham anything Carmelo has ever done.. Give me a break..

It is simply a double standard (that you obviously endorse)..

In Hockey its "tough guys".. But when guys in other sports fight, its a Moral and societal problem that your kids need to be sheltered from

Stop the bullsh*t please
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:38 AM   #134
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
Oh please..

BBall fights are not all sucker punches and some kind of shady sh*t...

guys do much worse in hockey games tham anything Carmelo has ever done.. Give me a break..

It is simply a double standard (that you obviously endorse)..

In Hockey its "tough guys".. But when guys in other sports fight, its a Moral and societal problem that your kids need to be sheltered from

Stop the bullsh*t please

Holy fck. Am I getting trolled?

There's toooooons of people who think fighting in hockey is stupid and should be removed. That's a fair opinion. Not understanding the difference between being allowed to fight in hockey and not in basketball is LAUGHABLEEEE

Show me basketball fights where two people square off and everybody else around them calms down and watches? Show me where NBA players don't throw hissy fits and need other grown men to calm them down? Every scrum turns into chaos. Your right people do worse things in hockey games and when they do TSN or the fans completely go all in on them, probably worse than basketball. Look up Don Cherry, dude says way worse shit than anybody on TNT.

Point is there's clearly composed fights where all hell doesn't break loose. Even with a bench brawl things are more controlled than NBA scrums. Look at the Malice @ the Palice. The brawl he's talking about? They finished the game
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:40 AM   #135
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Default Re: The hypocrisy of hockey

Fck it. Too many words wasted. I agree, why the hell is Kobe Bryant throwing down with LeBron James any different than Joe Thornton and Jamie Benn fighting. Same exact thing
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