Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Houston Rockets Forum

Houston Rockets Forum Houston Rockets message board - rockets fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-29-2006, 02:04 AM   #31
Ricardo Tubbs
High School JV MVP
 
Ricardo Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 213
Ricardo Tubbs has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
I'm still waiting for reasons why Rudy Gay has "star" potential........

.........and what he did in college that Shane Battier didn't do.

Now you're just being retarded and you know it. That's like asking "What did Charles Barkley do in college that Lonny Baxter didn't?"

Gay is taller, longer, more athletic, better ballhandler…he's just plain more talented. If you can't see that than I don't know what more I can say.
Ricardo Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:10 AM   #32
ClutchCityReturns
Decent college freshman
 
ClutchCityReturns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City
Posts: 1,424
ClutchCityReturns has decent reputationClutchCityReturns has decent reputation
Default

I think another thing that needs to be said is that we gave up Stromile Swift as well. Not that I like Swift's game, but he was another player we could dangle as trade bait. Now the only contracts we have that are attractive are...wait, I mean IS Luther Head. He's still on his sub-million dollar rookie contract, obviously, so we basically can't get anything for him.

The Rockets now basically have the MLE to get a starting SG, a backup SG, and maybe 2 other PG's. If the plan was to sign Mike James, that's out the window because he'd take the whole MLE. The only hope is that they can do a S&T with someone willing to take Juwan Howard's contract, then spend the MLE on a starting PF, but then we have to hope that the S&T gets us like 3 players. This just really puts us in a bind and I don't like it.
ClutchCityReturns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:14 AM   #33
fatboy11
NBA sixth man of the year
 
fatboy11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,955
fatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

Quote:
Not that I like Swift's game, but he was another player we could dangle as trade bait.


Trade bait?

We're lucky Memphis took him back.

Any red-blooded Rocket fan that can stand the mere thought of Stromile Swift without having to hold down vomit should be slapped in the face and kicked in the nuts.

The deal isn't done, by the way. Who knows, maybe we'll get something else.
fatboy11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:15 AM   #34
Unregistered
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's get it straight

Ok,

Deal as stands from my knowledge: Swift, Gay for Battier + something (guessing a future 2nd rounder or a busted pick/minor role player... basically insignificant)

Swift - Houston's finally realized that this guy'll never furfill his potential. He's a solid backup option at best, and he's eat up way too much money that could be better spent on other players. It may not be addition by subtraction, but Houston didn't lose much here.

Gay - This kid is RAWWWW, I don't know if all you guys have been watching are highlite reels or what, but the kid CANNOT ball on any significant level. Ignoring his questionable work ethic, he doesn't have even a mid-ranger that he can get off of against any amount of defense, and his ability to convert an open shot is mediocre at best. He's been like that since scouts targeted him in his junior year of high school... some of the best coaches and trainers have been working with him for 4 years now, and very little result. A good comparison would be Iguodala, except Iguodala came into the NBA with the potential to pick up an outside shot... Gay can't, period. That's not to say that he'll be a bust, but he's certainly not the next Iguodala who'll explode anytime soon. RAW. I've been following this kid since the year before Lebron was drafted. He was raw 4 years ago, and frankly, despite excellent coaches and trainers, he's not much better. Think D-Miles. He'll end up being a solid starter, no more... and that's after a few years of adjustments.

Battier - Two seasons ago, Memphis suprised everyone with a crappy team by making the playoffs at seed 4 or 5 (forgot exactly which). In the offseason that followed, Memphis deamed every player open for trade except two... the two that West thought to be invaluable to the team's success and chemistry: Gasol and Battier. Since that declaration, Battier's value has steadily risen (isn't he on the olympic team now?) to the point of seemingly rediculousness as just about every team struggling or otherwise have tried to pry him away from the Grizz to no avail. Battier is not the next all star. He has no extra potential. BUT, what he is right now is the best "vital" piece you can find for any serious contender. He's the Teshawyn Prince, he's the Bruce Bowen. That's Battier. Unlike Prince, he has no extra potential. Unlike Bowen, he's not going to completely shut down the MVP... but he plays that intangible "glue" role to perfection. 10/5/2/1/1 means nothing. Battier is defined by his intangibles and the whole league knows it. He's worth an 8th pick, not much higher, but certainly not lower.

So stop *****ing, the deal's fine. Houston'll be able to use Battier much better than they'd be able to use Gay. Gay needs the ball in his hands to do anything (and at this point, he can't really do too much with consistancy but look pretty and dunk), McGrady however, is going to have the ball. Gay will not work well with McGrady. Battier on the other hand, is deadly accurate, and his accuracy improves dramatically when open (watch some grizz games, he's probobly 70%ish on open threes). He's a great fit for Houston, where McGrady and Yao'll give him all the open shots he can handle. Plus, he's the type of foward that doesn't hesitate to get a little dirty, take some rebounds that Yao can't handle. And his defense is unquestionable so Houston no longer has to stick McGrady on thier opponent's best player (wearing T-Mac out).

.

Also, Steve Novak at the 32nd pick . I'm suprised no one's mentioned him. He's the player for Houston Scott Padgett should have been. With Swift gone, he'll prolly fill in 10ish mpg right away and help spread the floor even more. This is a 45% 3pt shooter with an NBA range and a 6'10 frame that forces oponnents to leave Yao. He's not much of a banger, but if you play Yao, T-Mac, and Battier with him, you won't need him to be on the inside. Rocket fans are in for a good year if Yao stays healthy (oh, and now that Battier's here to spread the floor in Houston, even if T-Mac gets injured, Houston'll still be able to run Van Gundy's game with Head in for T-Mac). Expect T-Mac to become a permanat SG next season with backup roles at SF.

Things are looking up in Houston
(and no, I'm not a Houston fan or live anywhere near the area)

- ADWCTA
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:30 AM   #35
Unregistered
 
Posts: n/a
Default ..

you people are idiots. Battier isnt even a starter in this league. he couldnt start anywhere and hes a 6th man at best. trading him for someone who couldve possibly gone #1 in the draft and many people think hes the best player in the draft is stupid. theres no upside to battier, hes shown everyhthing he has and hes no star in the league.

you rocket fans are in denial. Gay is going to make the Rockets look real stupid next season.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:36 AM   #36
JusBlaze
I brick open layups
 
JusBlaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 133
JusBlaze has an OK reputation so far
Default

This is NOT official. Until it is, I have faith he will remain a Rocket.
JusBlaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:37 AM   #37
Bosh4life
Local High School Star
 
Bosh4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 456
Bosh4life has an OK reputation so far
Default

You should really register.
Bosh4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 02:40 AM   #38
Unregistered
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
you people are idiots. Battier isnt even a starter in this league. he couldnt start anywhere and hes a 6th man at best. trading him for someone who couldve possibly gone #1 in the draft and many people think hes the best player in the draft is stupid. theres no upside to battier, hes shown everyhthing he has and hes no star in the league.

you rocket fans are in denial. Gay is going to make the Rockets look real stupid next season.

First part, Battier's a starter on any team without an all star SF. Ask a GM.

Second part, Battier's not a star, no one claims he is or will ever be a star. Niether are most solid role players that allow teams to win championships. However, they're rare, neccessary, and best of all demand mediocre salaries. It's a good thing he's not a star, Houston's got two already, and Gay won't get there until McGrady's prime is over anyway.

Third part, last sentence is an empty threat. I'd love to see you back that up with some arguments. Gay's in Memphis to do waht Warrik was supposed to do. That means that at his best, his stats will be 12/6, if everything goes right for him. Battier's gonna pull a similar stat line barring injuries. There's a possibility Gay makes Rockets look stupid a few years down the line... but NEXT season? i'd say that's a outside 2-5% chance.

- ADWCTA
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 03:53 AM   #39
SCREWstonRockets
Houston Texan
 
SCREWstonRockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City 2K9
Posts: 3,722
SCREWstonRockets is a pretty well-respected posterSCREWstonRockets is a pretty well-respected posterSCREWstonRockets is a pretty well-respected posterSCREWstonRockets is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

Shane is a decent player, but gay and stro for shane ONLY? i was expecting atleast their 1st rounder but we didn't even get that. Now the rockets are "manute bol" THIN at the 4 spot. I don't know about yall but howard and hayes isn't going to cut it. Thats why i'm hoping there is some other secret deal we know nothing about because this deal doesn't make great sense.
SCREWstonRockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 07:31 AM   #40
ClutchCityReturns
Decent college freshman
 
ClutchCityReturns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City
Posts: 1,424
ClutchCityReturns has decent reputationClutchCityReturns has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
Shane is a decent player, but gay and stro for shane ONLY? i was expecting atleast their 1st rounder but we didn't even get that. Now the rockets are "manute bol" THIN at the 4 spot. I don't know about yall but howard and hayes isn't going to cut it. Thats why i'm hoping there is some other secret deal we know nothing about because this deal doesn't make great sense.

Exactly. The reason this traded pisses me off isn't because we get Battier. If Van Gundy were to genetically create a perfect role player for his system, it would look almost identical to Battier (but maybe a couple of years younger). He WILL be a solid contributor for this team, no doubt in my mind. His shooting percentage was extremely nice last season, and he can hit the 3 with great (and I do mean GREAT) consistancy. He's an iron man, he's tough as nails, and he's vocal. He will be an awesome addition to the lineup.

But...

Look at the damn roster now. The backcourt is empty like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard.

Alston/Head
...
McGrady/Battier/Bowen
Howard/Hayes/Novak
Yao/Mutombo


One of the smaller problems is that nobody outside of a 40 year old Dikembe Mutombo can even pretend to play the 5. If Yao has any significant downtime, we're f*cked there. We also have one hell of a weak rotation at the 4. Juwan is servicable, sure, but as much as I love Hayes' heart and nose for the ball, he's only 6'6". Novak will get abused by NBA 4's inside the 3 point line. Another glaring problem is that we have ONE real point guard, backed up by a tweener that doesn't handle the ball all that well. Another point guard is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

The biggest problem, which should hit you like a kick in the nuts, is that there are ZERO shooting guards on the team. Luther Head is the closest thing, but he's 6'3" (more like 6'2" at best) and only shot 40% last year. If you consider him a 2, then we still need to find two more, and THEN that causes us to need to go find another 1. We basically need 4 more backcourt players and 1 guy that can play backup 4 and 5.

That's roughly 5 players needed to fill the roster. Let's say we re-sign Bogans (ugh) and Lampe (double ugh), we still need 3 perimeter players. All we have is the MLE, which if split up would fetch only 3 "barely in the rotation" type of guys. WE WOULD STILL HAVE NO STARTER AT THE SHOOTING GUARD!!!

The only way I see us getting enough backcourt players is doing a sign and trade with someone where they throw in an extra player. The only problem with that is our only real tradeable asset right now is Juwan Howard, who isn't easily tradeable in the first place, but EVEN IF we moved him for a starting 2, who the hell starts at the 4 then? Chuck freaking Hayes?!?!

Look, like I said before I completely understand why the Rockets management wants a guy like Battier. That much is obvious. However, I can't help but feel like Rudy Gay (who a LOT of people feel has star potential) could have landed us far more than Battier. At least a couple of solid players so that our depth didn't get shot to hell after throwing Stromile in. I mean, if the trade were say...Gay + Stromile for Battier + #24, that hurts a lot less because we can pick up another player...a guy like Ager, Collins, White.

Basically, the Rockets needed to use this draft to get deeper and younger, but instead they got older and more shallow. It's going to be a struggle just to fill the roster with 15 players at this point. No knock on Battier, really. And I wanted Swift out as much as the next guy, but I just happen to have a strong belief that SOME G.M. out there would have given a lot more than Memphis did for Rudy Gay + Stromile Swift. There's a reason that everywhere you look draft analists are claming that Jerry West is a genius.

We got Battier, who is certainly a nice piece in my opinion, but we got flat out jobbed in the process. That's my $.02 and it won't change one bit until I see signs of something else brewing on the horizon...and it better be damn good.

Last edited by ClutchCityReturns : 06-29-2006 at 07:36 AM.
ClutchCityReturns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 07:42 AM   #41
Semiprocappa
I hit open layups
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 64
Semiprocappa has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
The biggest problem, which should hit you like a kick in the nuts, is that there are ZERO shooting guards on the team. Luther Head is the closest thing, but he's 6'3" (more like 6'2" at best) and only shot 40% last year.

Couldn't T-Mac play shooting guard. I'm sure he's played there before.

And on another note... Didn't Swift get traded from the Grizzlies cause he didn't seem able to reach his potential there. Only now to be traded back because he wasn't able to reach his potential in Houston?
Semiprocappa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 07:52 AM   #42
WoGiTaLiA1
Local High School Star
 
WoGiTaLiA1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,566
WoGiTaLiA1 has decent reputationWoGiTaLiA1 has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Remember, Shane didn't have anyone with T Mac's abilities in Memphis.

Yeah because Tmac and his lack of heart are clearly as good as Gasol. Gasol is just as good as Tmac. He draws double teams and is a great passer. On top of that you cant double off of Miller or EJ on that team either. Battier played on a very good team and produced. Houston are one superstar lacking heart and a good young big, thats the team. Gay for Battier is a bad trade. It would be like trading Wade for Posey or Duncan for Bowen. That type of thing. Battier is a nice role player, hell he is one of the leagues better role players, but thats the worst case on Gay. Gay has superstar potential. Battier is what he is and the Rockets need a superstar, not a roleplayer.
WoGiTaLiA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 08:16 AM   #43
fatboy11
NBA sixth man of the year
 
fatboy11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,955
fatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

I think the key to this trade will be if we actually do get something other than Battier back. I think we will.

Don't Battier and Swift make very similar money? I'd be content with a future 1st rounder.
fatboy11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 08:19 AM   #44
JohnnySic
green is good
 
JohnnySic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,039
JohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation hereJohnnySic has an incredible reputation here
Default

Gay is gonna be really good. Battier for Gay will go down as a bad trade of epic proportions.
JohnnySic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 08:46 AM   #45
ClutchCityReturns
Decent college freshman
 
ClutchCityReturns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City
Posts: 1,424
ClutchCityReturns has decent reputationClutchCityReturns has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semiprocappa
Couldn't T-Mac play shooting guard. I'm sure he's played there before.

And on another note... Didn't Swift get traded from the Grizzlies cause he didn't seem able to reach his potential there. Only now to be traded back because he wasn't able to reach his potential in Houston?

Well, for what it's worth it's been said time and again that McGrady will not be moving back to SG. Talk is cheap though, so we'll see. Still, it doesn't help the depth...

Alston / Head / :confused:
McGrady / :confused: / :confused:
Battier / Bowen ( ) / :confused:
Howard / Hayes / Novak
Yao / Mutombo / :confused:

Rafer Alston, Chuck Hayes, and Juwan Howard were all at the Rockets draft party when the proposal was made, and they looked like they shiit their pants. Juwan Howard actually said to the crowd "Shane Battier is a really good, tough player...and...................................... well I'm not going to sell you on this deal, honestly...but just don't throw anything on stage...don't shoot the messenger."

...and before they knew it was for Gay AND Swift.

Like Juwan basically said, there is absolutely no way to sell this trade AS IS. No way in hell.

The Rockets don't HAVE to win now. People say they do because they feel that Tracy is wearing down and only has a few years left to be an elite player. Well I'm sorry, but if that's the case, that's all the more reason to take Gay. Yao will be around another 8+ years, so there's no hurry there. If Gay takes 3 years to come into his own, what's so bad about that? Even if Tracy is on the down swing, Gay would be on the up, and there's no reason to believe that Yao wouldn't be in his prime right around then. I'd much rather give it 2 to 3 years, have Yao in his prime, Rudy coming into his own, and Tracy at the point where maybe he's just a star or VERY GOOD starter, and not a superstar anymore. Then when Tracy moves on, it could be the Yao and Rudy show, and by that time they could have put some more pieces in place. With Battier, they either get it done NOW and I mean next year or the year after, or they are going to have to completely retool around Yao. This means that Yao could possibly be one of the most wasted big men talents EVER, since he has yet to have a consistant group of teammates around him for more than a season now. Crap is always changing...the Rockets are constantly rushing to plug holes in a boat that's just going to sink halfway across the lake. Why not take a little extra time and some care (nurturing Rudy) to make sure that boat gets where it's supposed to go?

F*CK!

Last edited by ClutchCityReturns : 06-29-2006 at 08:57 AM.
ClutchCityReturns is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:18 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy