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Old 03-05-2007, 08:14 AM   #31
DreamRockets
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by Shep
..say no more..dude, you're making yourself look stupid

o well if you wanna buy the wilt hype be my guest scoring a bunch of points against undersized stiffs doesnt impress me.

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Originally Posted by Shep
wrong, shaq should only have 2 mvp's: '00, and '01

which is more than robinson has :

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Originally Posted by Shep
well, he couldn't do any worse

yeah, sure robinson's pathetic 18 ppg playoffs career average would do better than shaq :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
uh..he was injured? ..thats like saying well we all know what happened to grant hill after joe dumars left

so he was injured 5 minutes after shaq left ? dude got injured 3 or 4 years after shaq left, in the couple seasons post-shaq he simply was exposed as the overrated coattail rider he always was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
3 rings actually, wade lead them to the championship last year

that means shaq lead his team to 3 titles and Mr robinson to zero, yet robinson >> shaq ? yeah, that makes sense


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Originally Posted by Shep
probably true..he gets 5 or 6

wrong, he never gets past chicago even if he makes the finals.

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Originally Posted by Shep
what are you going on about? he dominated every playoff he competed in in the 90's.

lol, he sure dominated the '95 western conference finals, soft pansy was exposed against a team that won 15 less games than they did.

he sure dominated he '94 playoffs when he shot 41% :

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Originally Posted by Shep
what do you have to do in your mind to dominate in the playoffs? back your fat ass into the guy defending you and turn and dunk?

finally get it
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:19 AM   #32
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

If Russell played this season, the Boston Celtics would be champions. Thats where he would rank today.

Of All-time, if you want to win a championship, you need him on your team.

That itself should make him no1, however due to the change of the game, he was the most valuable player in his era, as it is like comparing artists from different periods.
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

He'd be the best today and he has to be at least 8 all time. I mean he averaged 22.2 rpg or something close to it! Come on now that deserves some respect no matter the era.
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:45 AM   #34
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

There would be a place on anyones roster for a player of Bill Russell's ability, he was great at all the facets of the game todays stars seem to deem undesireable. Theres a reason supposed scrubs get long contracts (e.g. Najera, Dampier, Bell, Madsen) because they are willing to be role players and do what is necessary. Bill did this but on a superstar scale. What a LEGEND. Much love.
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:46 AM   #35
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

I get the feeling that many seem to think that Bill Russel won those championships with a bunch of scrubs... I also get the feeling that those same people would believe that Wilt could put up a 50 ppg season in today's league like he did in the past...
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

during or before the heat v. detroit game last week, the studio guys were asked to rank the top 5 centers ever to see where shaq ranks. it was greg anthony, tim legler, and steven a i think. usual suspects in the lists: russ, wilt, kareem, shaq, hakeem, and moses. anthony chose bill russell at number 1 claiming that bill dominated wilt at the defensive end and that's how the celts won all those titles. i'm a celtics fan, and even i wouldn't stoop to that kind of spin. wilt put up mad numbers against russ because the celts defended him straight up one on one, just like reed and knicks did. the celts won because that strategy minimized the contributions from everyone else on the sixers / lakers and because they had 6 other hofers doing the heavy lifting on the offensive end. the revisionist history of announcers and analysts is really bad for young fans out there, and anthony is the worst of the bunch imo. sorry to hijack the thread. maxfly's post about russell not winning 11 rings alone brought it to mind.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:18 PM   #37
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I get the feeling that many seem to think that Bill Russel won those championships with a bunch of scrubs... I also get the feeling that those same people would believe that Wilt could put up a 50 ppg season in today's league like he did in the past...

since when is it a requirement to win with scrubs to be great ? (the most common knock on russell)

since when is it a requirement to win without a superstar sidekick to be considered great ? (the biggest and most common knock on shaq)

russell won with HOfers, but some of those HOf are there because of the rings they won, go check kc jones numbers, the guy has career robert horry numbers, the supporting casts changed, cousy left, and yet russell kept on winning, the 2 years after russell retired the celtics won 34 and 44 games and failed to even make the playoffs, so stop trying to diminish his greatness, he made the difference, he made the celtics the greatest dynasty in proffesional sports history, not vice versa.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:20 PM   #38
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by zebraheat
If Russell played this season, the Boston Celtics would be champions. Thats where he would rank today.

No the Celtics wouldn't. His teams were always loaded with Hall of Famers, and there's only one borderline Hall of Famer currently on the roster. He'd turn them into a contender, but they would be hard pressed to win a championship.

Let's not forget that it was one thing to be a 6'9", 215 pound center in the 60's and it's another thing to be one in today's game. That's why Wilt scored 50 points a game, he was being guarded by what are by today's standards small forwards!
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

even by today standards russell would be the best rebounder, shot blocker and post defender in the league, so wtf are you talking about ? sure his teams back in the day were loaded but he was also going against some of the greatest teams in league history, today's nba is watered down and there are few TRUE contendors, dallas, phoenix and san antonio being the only real ones.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by lakers-city
the 2 years after russell retired the celtics won 34 and 44 games and failed to even make the playoffs, so stop trying to diminish his greatness,

Hall of Famer Sam Jones also retired in 69. Do I have to get David Hume on your ass?
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:24 PM   #41
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by lakers-city
since when is it a requirement to win with scrubs to be great ? (the most common knock on russell)

since when is it a requirement to win without a superstar sidekick to be considered great ? (the biggest and most common knock on shaq)

russell won with HOfers, but some of those HOf are there because of the rings they won, go check kc jones numbers, the guy has career robert horry numbers, the supporting casts changed, cousy left, and yet russell kept on winning, the 2 years after russell retired the celtics won 34 and 44 games and failed to even make the playoffs, so stop trying to diminish his greatness, he made the difference, he made the celtics the greatest dynasty in proffesional sports history, not vice versa.
not to discount your thoughts here, because most of them have merit, but kc jones wasn't going to get a ton of numbers because he was a defensive oriented pg. just not his style to rack up stats. i don't think you can discount russell as winner, but you can put forth the notion that unlike the other big men at the top of all time greats list, he never showed the ability to carry a team (or even be the first option) on the offensive end. i know defense wins rings, but shouldn't the greatest center ever be able to go out there and carry the load at the offensive end when his teammates aren't feeling it. i guess he had enough scorers on his team that they couldn't all go cold at once, and his blocks and rebounds innitiated the fastbreaks that fueled the team, but there's something to be said for a guy you can count on to give you points in the low post the way that all the other all time great centers did.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:26 PM   #42
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by malek4980
Hall of Famer Sam Jones also retired in 69. Do I have to get David Hume on your ass?

no need for that, russell was carrying the team, not freakin sam jones.

and if the celtics were SOOOO loaded shouldnt they be able to at least make the playoffs even after a couple old farts retired ? maybe the old fart by the name of bill russell was THAT valuable.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by lakers-city
no need for that, russell was carrying the team, not freakin sam jones.

Yes, but having two important players, even if one is way more important than the other, retiring at the same time makes a bigger impact than if only one retired.

What would have happened to the Bulls in 94 if Jordan and Pippen both retired?
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

jordan russell
pippen sam jones

this is another level of talent here.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: Where do you think Bill Russell ranks all-time?

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Originally Posted by lakers-city
jordan russell
pippen sam jones

this is another level of talent here.

Thanks for missing my point.
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