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Old 02-20-2014, 04:44 PM   #76
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
yeah, this is about NFL players changing their behavior in the locker room.. The gay slurs and the crude language is a front to offset the man to man camaraderie in the lockeroom..

all the showering together and the ass slapping and all the love for their teammates makes some guys feel the need to spit homophobic rhetoric to let everyone know they aren't gay..

relax boys and grow up.. everything will be fine.. Nobody thinks you are gay... and if you are? that's you own personal business
I also think there is an element that probably think he must be soft, female. Usually with racist, homophobic people, especially some who just are because they don't know better there is an element of really thinking the other person has something "wrong". He really has to go in there and be ready to hit people and take names. That will help a lot.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:04 PM   #77
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

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Originally Posted by niko
Absolutely. Although not quite what you said, more like "good for you". I think i said it before, i think he did this to control the story himself and reap benefits (sponsors, etc.) from it rather than listen to whispers.

BTW, so if the media says something dumb, you repeat it ad nauseum because "everyone is saying it?"
if EVERY media outlet is saying, not just one or two...then yeah "everyone is saying it"

*IF* Sam ends up being a star player then I am sure there will be documentaries years down the road where his situation is compared to Jackie

IMO you are really downplaying his situation...is he going to get lynched after practice? NO (and no one is saying that)...but being the first gay man isn't going to be a cake walk for him, and if you think it will be you should read up on some of the things other gays in the NFL have said about it



^^^ he was suicidal during his entire stay in the NFL

claims he had to use the word "f@g" on a daily basis to fit in...

Quote:
Low self-esteem, anxiety attacks, suicidal thoughts and binge drinking doesn’t sound like the life of your typical NFL football player, particularly one voted to the all-rookie team with the Green Bay Packers. But that was Esera Tuaolo’s reality.

Tuaolo chronicles his hard-knocks life in “Alone in the Tranches: My Life as a Gay Man in the NFL.” It’s a tale of one man’s struggle to overcome the adversity of his poor, abusive childhood, his rise to NFL stardom and subsequent battle with the depression of living in the closet for nine seasons in one of the world’s most macho arenas.

Tuaolo came out in October 2002 on the HBO series “Real Sports.” It marked the end of a long road toward self-acceptance and happiness.

“My biggest fear about coming out was the safety for my children and husband when I said I was gay on ‘Real Sports,’” he said. “During the process of coming out, my husband and I wanted to do this for our children. When you are in the closet and isolated, you know you’re not alone, but your biggest fear is safety.”


Quote:
When coaches tell you you’re a f*ggot when you play poorly, you can’t really share who you are with people,” Tuaolo said. “It’s hard for straight people to realize what we’ve gone through as gay people our whole lives.”
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:17 PM   #78
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

If people compare it to Jackie Robinson they are nuts, it's nowhere near the same climate. Stupid is stupid, 1,000 people saying a stupid thing doesn't make it less stupid. Plus this definitely has a part of it that was done because it benefits the player (financially) to be the first gay to play openly.

You're missing a huge part of the difference between this and the situation you picked. One person had to live secrelty, shamefully for years and years in a culture that was allowed to be against him, and not only couldn't he fight back, he had to embrace it. Sam doesn't have to be secret, doesn't seem to have any problem with being gay (he's known it all along) and if he faces the same prejudice, he just needs to raise his hand and it will stop.

It's really really difference.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:34 PM   #79
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

niko Sam probably came out because he had no choice...it was already known to his college team, he knew this would be better than the doors being blown off while in the NFL...he didn't get a light bulb over his head "DING! I CAN GET RICH BEING GAY!!!"

and niko, why exactly do you think that Tuaolo waited until retirement to come out? lol...you should read up on his stories
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:00 PM   #80
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
niko Sam probably came out because he had no choice...it was already known to his college team, he knew this would be better than the doors being blown off while in the NFL...he didn't get a light bulb over his head "DING! I CAN GET RICH BEING GAY!!!"

and niko, why exactly do you think that Tuaolo waited until retirement to come out? lol...you should read up on his stories

It's not the same. None of the stuff the person went through in your example will happen to Sam. He's not closeted, he's not ashamed, he doesn't have to participate in his own degradation. If a person wants to bash on him, they essentially risk being ostracized. Aside from both people being gay football players the situations are absolutely opposite.

I'm not saying this isn't hard (being the first is always harder) but the difference between now and the civil rights times (trailblazers like jackie robinson) is the climate is much more forgiving (homophobic vs. violent opposition) and there are laws in place protecting Sam.

I think people forget the NFL workplace is a workplace. It's not protected in any way, shape or form from work lawsuits via it's anti trust exemption. In fact, if the NFL is found to not be providing a safe workplace it could damage those exemptions.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:10 PM   #81
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
It's not the same. None of the stuff the person went through in your example will happen to Sam. He's not closeted, he's not ashamed, he doesn't have to participate in his own degradation. If a person wants to bash on him, they essentially risk being ostracized. Aside from both people being gay football players the situations are absolutely opposite.
yeah exactly, which goes back to me saying he will probably just receive the silent treatment from many...like Jackie did but probably not as extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
I'm not saying this isn't hard (being the first is always harder) but the difference between now and the civil rights times (trailblazers like jackie robinson) is the climate is much more forgiving (homophobic vs. violent opposition) and there are laws in place protecting Sam.

I think people forget the NFL workplace is a workplace. It's not protected in any way, shape or form from work lawsuits via it's anti trust exemption. In fact, if the NFL is found to not be providing a safe workplace it could damage those exemptions.
it's a work place full of young unintelligent and ignorant personalities...who came from broken homes and poor neighborhoods and who grew up with their own coaches yelling "F*GGOT" every other word...it's not a high end white collar law firm, and you come off like "oh this is the 21st century, everyone is understanding these days, being gay in the NFL is a cake walk!"
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:32 PM   #82
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
yeah exactly, which goes back to me saying he will probably just receive the silent treatment from many...like Jackie did but probably not as extreme

it's a work place full of young unintelligent and ignorant personalities...who came from broken homes and poor neighborhoods and who grew up with their own coaches yelling "F*GGOT" every other word...it's not a high end white collar law firm, and you come off like "oh this is the 21st century, everyone is understanding these days, being gay in the NFL is a cake walk!"

It's irrelevent, they'll go into the locker room and tell people what's up and it will change or the NFL will stomp on their heads to force change. This is not an option for an NFL lockerroom, to continue like this. Will it take time? Yes. Will he have some trouble? Probably, but it will be mild because the NFL will not tolerate it not being mild.

How much of an asshole would a person need to be to refuse to speak to Sam as their teammate and knowing they'd get in trouble besides? If any NFL team has a large pct of their team which would do that, then they are so dysfunctional that they are ****ed anyway.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:51 PM   #83
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
It's irrelevent, they'll go into the locker room and tell people what's up and it will change or the NFL will stomp on their heads to force change. This is not an option for an NFL lockerroom, to continue like this. Will it take time? Yes. Will he have some trouble? Probably, but it will be mild because the NFL will not tolerate it not being mild.

How much of an asshole would a person need to be to refuse to speak to Sam as their teammate and knowing they'd get in trouble besides? If any NFL team has a large pct of their team which would do that, then they are so dysfunctional that they are ****ed anyway.
there are LOTS of ignorant a-holes in the NFL niko...I think you really underestimate that

you think Pacman Jones is the only one of his kind in the NFL?...half the league is under 27 years of age, they are young

not only that there are lots of bigot COACHES...Chris Kluwe, punter for Vikes claims he has no job in league because he stood up for gay rights...AND HE'S NOT EVEN GAY!
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:11 PM   #84
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

Ill be glad when you 2 get to the part where you agree to disagree..

I personally agree with Niko.. this is only similar to Jackie Robinson because the MEDIA wants it to be..

That way, they can keep talking about it even when there isn't anything to talk about
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:28 PM   #85
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Default Re: Missouri DE Michael Sam comes out prior to draft

I'll agree to disagree but I am thinking this is far from the last time this subject will come up...

Media will keep talking...And you guys will keep saying there is nothing to talk about, and in the mean time you'll be making a big deal out of whatever Dez is up to lol.
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