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Old 03-27-2014, 10:16 PM   #31
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Smart move for him if it looks like he'll be a lottery pick. Even if it's "just" being picked in the 10-15 range, there's no point in risking another year at school.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
Those players are one and dones because they are very talented, John Wall was more talented than Johnny Flynn.

They get more physically and mentally ready from staying 2 years, their level of play in their rookie year would EVEN BETTER than what you have seen as a one and done.
The one thing you hear about most of the one and dones, especially big men, is that they need to put on muscle and fill out their frames.

It would make the general level of play in the NBA better, there's no doubt about it.


Of course a more mature player will be better than himself at a younger age, but there is zero proof that college can do a better job of development than the pros can.


And just because the NBA might feel the level of play is better, does not mean they can break the law, and discriminate against age, unless it is collectively bargained.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Of course a more mature player will be better than himself at a younger age, but there is zero proof that college can do a better job of development than the pros can.


And just because the NBA might feel the level of play is better, does not mean they can break the law, and discriminate against age, unless it is collectively bargained.

Off topic....the next cba will be a total shit show......lock out city
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
Those players are one and dones because they are very talented, John Wall was more talented than Johnny Flynn.

They get more physically and mentally ready from staying 2 years, their level of play in their rookie year would EVEN BETTER than what you have seen as a one and done.
The one thing you hear about most of the one and dones, especially big men, is that they need to put on muscle and fill out their frames.

It would make the general level of play in the NBA better, there's no doubt about it.

It would be dumb for them to return if they can be a lottery pick unless they have #1 overall ability but for some reason have inexplicably slipped to a late lottery projection, but that very rarely happens as even underachieving high talents are taken high for their potential.

If they return they risk injury and ruining their NBA career...not to mention you waste a year where you could have been earning a NBA salary that you never get back...and father time isn't gonna give them an extra year to make up for the burned year.

Also a player improves more in the NBA playing against NBA players then they do in college playing against inferior players in a totally different style of play. Plus in the NBA you train all day long while in college there are practice time limits.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Of course a more mature player will be better than himself at a younger age, but there is zero proof that college can do a better job of development than the pros can.


And just because the NBA might feel the level of play is better, does not mean they can break the law, and discriminate against age, unless it is collectively bargained.

I'm not saying the development is better in college, everything just gets pushed back a year and these players would still get their development AND they'd contribute more to actual wins because they'd be physically better prepared for their first 82 game season.
NBA owners don't want to pay for their development if they can push it a year.

NBA is worried about the level of play in the league, they're not worried about teenagers becoming millionaires a year earlier or later in their life.

If the NFL can discriminate against age so can the NBA, it's a private company and all it has to is be collectively bargained, which it probably will be per Adam Silver.

Quote:
It would be dumb for them to return if they can be a lottery pick unless they have #1 overall ability but for some reason have inexplicably slipped to a late lottery projection, but that very rarely happens as even underachieving high talents are taken high for their potential.

If they return they risk injury and ruining their NBA career...not to mention you waste a year where you could have been earning a NBA salary that you never get back...and father time isn't gonna give them an extra year to make up for the burned year.

Also a player improves more in the NBA playing against NBA players then they do in college playing against inferior players in a totally different style of play. Plus in the NBA you train all day long while in college there are practice time limits.

If it was the rule that they had to stay in college a 2nd year then it's not "a dumb decision", it's just something they have to do. The potentially dumb decision would be staying the 3rd year.

Yeah teenagers lose a year where they could get injured, NBA owners don't care about that. If they play in the NBA there's just as big or bigger chance that they get hurt there, and if they don't play they instead do most of their development on the bench which NBA owners don't want to pay for.
Like I said, NBA owners don't care if a kid that age becomes a millionare a year earlier or later in their life, and quite frankly neither do I, I just want to watch better NBA basketball.

In the NBA they don't train all day long? Do you realize just how many games 82 is and how much travel it takes to get through those 82 games?

Last edited by ZenMaster : 03-28-2014 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:32 AM   #36
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

If the NBA doesn't want to pay for development, how about they also stop paying for decline years. What if they only want to pay for prime years. To be in the NBA, you have be between 24-34. Why should guys like Kobe, or Nash, be eating up huge chunks of salary cap space, when it is clear as day they can no longer contribute meaningfully anymore. Would you be ok with that?


I mean if you're ok with restricting an 18 or 19 year old from making a living, then you should be ok with restricting a 34+ year old from making a living as well, considering he is FAR better off, and has made his millions already.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
If the NBA doesn't want to pay for development, how about they also stop paying for decline years. What if they only want to pay for prime years. To be in the NBA, you have be between 24-34. Why should guys like Kobe, or Nash, be eating up huge chunks of salary cap space, when it is clear as day they can no longer contribute meaningfully anymore. Would you be ok with that?


I mean if you're ok with restricting an 18 or 19 year old from making a living, then you should be ok with restricting a 34+ year old from making a living as well, considering he is FAR better off, and has made his millions already.

But the NBA doesn't only want to pay for prime years 24-34, it's not worth discussing something that has no point and wouldn't happen. What they do want though is a 20 year old age limit. The NFL has set a precedence for this so it's not uncommon.

You must agree with this then: If NBA teams should pay for players development then why only after they turn 19? Why risk having players getting injured before that? Why even let them go play in college or high school? Why shouldn't they pay for their development from age 14 or 15 or even younger?
Why risk poor development or injury for a player out of the NBA environment at all, I mean NBA teams develops players better than any high school or college could right?
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:39 AM   #38
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
But the NBA doesn't only want to pay for prime years 24-34, it's not worth discussing something that has no point and wouldn't happen. What they do want though is a 20 year old age limit. The NFL has set a precedence for this so it's not uncommon.

You must agree with this then: If NBA teams should pay for players development then why only after they turn 19? Why risk having players getting injured before that? Why even let them go play in college or high school? Why shouldn't they pay for their development from age 14 or 15 or even younger?
Why risk poor development or injury for a player out of the NBA environment at all, I mean NBA teams develops players better than any high school or college could right?

Because there are actually laws in this country with regards to the legal age to work. 18 happens to be that age. It is illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of age. It is entirely legal to discriminate against minors though.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:49 AM   #39
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Because there are actually laws in this country with regards to the legal age to work. 18 happens to be that age. It is illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of age. It is entirely legal to discriminate against minors though.

I don't think the NBA is concerned with the age limit of working, they're more concerned with optimizing the level of the NBA product.

Doesn't matter how many times you say "they can't do that", they can and they probably will.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:51 AM   #40
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

The NBA and NFL are two very different leagues as well, with highly different levels of contact, so the age restriction for the NFL is warranted, as people don't want to see young kids getting destroyed by grown men.


The NHL, and MLB both allow 18 year olds to enter, so there is precedence for keeping the age at 18 also. And as a matter of fact, most teams in those leagues prefer to get 18 year olds into their systems, so that they can develop them better.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:12 AM   #41
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
I don't think the NBA is concerned with the age limit of working, they're more concerned with optimizing the level of the NBA product.

Doesn't matter how many times you say "they can't do that", they can and they probably will.


The only way it can be done is if the Player's Union agrees to it, and the only way they will agree to it is if there is a major concession from the owners, like a big portion of the money.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:13 AM   #42
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The NBA and NFL are two very different leagues as well, with highly different levels of contact, so the age restriction for the NFL is warranted, as people don't want to see young kids getting destroyed by grown men.


The NHL, and MLB both allow 18 year olds to enter, so there is precedence for keeping the age at 18 also. And as a matter of fact, most teams in those leagues prefer to get 18 year olds into their systems, so that they can develop them better.

So you can do one or the other, NBA can choose whatever they want.

The NHL and MLB have much much better minor league development systems in place than the NBA, they draft those kids with the intent of them developing in those minor leagues, and the reason for that is that those kids aren't either physically or mentally ready.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The only way it can be done is if the Player's Union agrees to it, and the only way they will agree to it is if there is a major concession from the owners, like a big portion of the money.

They'll lock the players out for half a season or more and they'll agree to these things.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:09 AM   #44
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
They'll lock the players out for half a season or more and they'll agree to these things.


I highly doubt Silver wants another lockout, at the beginning of his era, all over the age of 19 or 20 year olds coming into the league.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:18 AM   #45
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Default Re: Syracuse PG Tyler Ennis declares for the 2014 NBA Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
I highly doubt Silver wants another lockout, at the beginning of his era, all over the age of 19 or 20 year olds coming into the league.

They're going to have a lockout anyways for a hard cap.
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