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Old 03-12-2007, 09:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

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Originally Posted by Derek
Exactly. I saw this last night on HBO. Regardless, Chris Rock made a lot of sense. Especially about affirmative action.
LOL, then why did you say "I was discussing this with a friend and I have some theories on why people shouldn't get married," rather than "I saw this CR bit on HBO last night and ...." ???
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

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Originally Posted by Jabes
LOL, then why did you say "I was discussing this with a friend and I have some theories on why people shouldn't get married," rather than "I saw this CR bit on HBO last night and ...." ???


Because I was watching it with my friend and we agreed with his theories. We don't want Chris Rock taking credit for any of this.
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Old 03-12-2007, 05:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

I'm married(newlywed), and I won't lie, marriage is hard work. And I'll tell anyone think long and hard before making that step. And for those who think it's just the piece of paper or the financial benefits(especially military), you're dead wrong. If that's your reason for getting married, you might as well bring divorce papers with you to the wedding. Marriage is about two things: commitment and self-sacrifice. If you don't have room for one or either in your mindset, marriage is not for you.

Number one, we waited until wedding night to have sex. Why? Because I didn't marry her for sex. If it's all about sex, why get married? Now that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, you bet I do. Thing is I honestly love her. And it's not that she's the only one I'm meant to be with, but rather she's the only one I want to be with. If you don't have that mindset about the woman, then you have no business being married. But don't take my word for it, read the book Angela Bassett and Courtney Vance wrote, they waited until marriage too. Guys asked me how I did it, and answer was simple: She was virgin when we met, and I made a promise to myself and her that she'd remain that way until wedding night. That was very important to me. And no, I'm not lying.

Number two, I've had examples in my family of the importance of marriage vows. My stepfather was a drug addict for decades, and it infuriated my mother, but her love for him went deeper than her anger toward him. She was close to divorcing him, but she always said the vows she made weren't just to him but to herself and God, and that meant something. And she has a friend whose husband got Alzheimer's. Eventually it got to the point where he was no longer the man she married. All her other co-workers and friends was telling her she should let him go, but she said the same thing: She made a vow to him, herself and God to love him for life. Whether or not you believe in God(because there are many Christians who make terrible husbands), if those vows mean something to you, then you have the motivation you need to keep going.

And also, I agree with old boy who said don't get married young, though I would say don't be immature getting married. And that's for teenagers and 40 year-olds. Grow up, be a man, accept your responsibility and your role as a man, get to the point where you don't need another person to define you, yet you want them to help define you anyway. Only those cats have lasting marriages.
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Old 03-12-2007, 06:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
I'm married(newlywed), and I won't lie, marriage is hard work. And I'll tell anyone think long and hard before making that step. And for those who think it's just the piece of paper or the financial benefits(especially military), you're dead wrong. If that's your reason for getting married, you might as well bring divorce papers with you to the wedding. Marriage is about two things: commitment and self-sacrifice. If you don't have room for one or either in your mindset, marriage is not for you.

Number one, we waited until wedding night to have sex. Why? Because I didn't marry her for sex. If it's all about sex, why get married? Now that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, you bet I do. Thing is I honestly love her. And it's not that she's the only one I'm meant to be with, but rather she's the only one I want to be with. If you don't have that mindset about the woman, then you have no business being married. But don't take my word for it, read the book Angela Bassett and Courtney Vance wrote, they waited until marriage too. Guys asked me how I did it, and answer was simple: She was virgin when we met, and I made a promise to myself and her that she'd remain that way until wedding night. That was very important to me. And no, I'm not lying.

Number two, I've had examples in my family of the importance of marriage vows. My stepfather was a drug addict for decades, and it infuriated my mother, but her love for him went deeper than her anger toward him. She was close to divorcing him, but she always said the vows she made weren't just to him but to herself and God, and that meant something. And she has a friend whose husband got Alzheimer's. Eventually it got to the point where he was no longer the man she married. All her other co-workers and friends was telling her she should let him go, but she said the same thing: She made a vow to him, herself and God to love him for life. Whether or not you believe in God(because there are many Christians who make terrible husbands), if those vows mean something to you, then you have the motivation you need to keep going.

And also, I agree with old boy who said don't get married young, though I would say don't be immature getting married. And that's for teenagers and 40 year-olds. Grow up, be a man, accept your responsibility and your role as a man, get to the point where you don't need another person to define you, yet you want them to help define you anyway. Only those cats have lasting marriages.

I agree but its also important to be financeally stable when you get married and most young people aren't.
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Old 03-12-2007, 06:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Damn man I hope your not married
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Old 03-13-2007, 07:21 AM   #21
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

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Originally Posted by statman32
I agree but its also important to be financeally stable when you get married and most young people aren't.
Point taken, but financial issues tend to stem from a bigger issue: communication. It's not so much the finances that break up marraiges, but the couple's reaction to finances. There are people who got married when they were broke, worked hard and made a lot of money and got divorced AFTER they made their millions. They were financially stable, but that alone doesn't guarantee a successful marriage. It's how you respond to certain situations, good or bad.

Last edited by Sean77 : 03-13-2007 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 03-13-2007, 07:55 AM   #22
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Have lots of sex with lots of chickies and don't get married, it's all good. Just don't have kids, and if you do make a mistake and have kids, fork over the cash for the abortion or for the mother to take care of them for the next 18 years(sorry it ain't your choice). Guys who don't don't care of their kids should be sterilized like an animal IMO.
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:23 AM   #23
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

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Originally Posted by Sean77
Number one, we waited until wedding night to have sex. Why? Because I didn't marry her for sex. If it's all about sex, why get married?
I'm having trouble understanding this logic. So are you saying that couples that have premarital sex get married only for the sex? If so, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this.

I don't think sex should be ignored entirely. Sex is a big part of a relationship, it's one of the few basic human needs along with food and sleep. Its not like sexual chemistry is the same between any man/woman (or man/man, or man/goat, or whatever....), and for me that's something I would want to find out about before making lifelong vows.

Don't get me wrong, I respect your decision to wait until marriage, its a common tradition, I just don't see why it's necessary in order to prove you didn't get married for the sex. It sounds a little extreme so I wonder if there are other reasons, like religion or family tradition.
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Christopher Rock is a black.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabes
I'm having trouble understanding this logic. So are you saying that couples that have premarital sex get married only for the sex? If so, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this.

I don't think sex should be ignored entirely. Sex is a big part of a relationship, it's one of the few basic human needs along with food and sleep. Its not like sexual chemistry is the same between any man/woman (or man/man, or man/goat, or whatever....), and for me that's something I would want to find out about before making lifelong vows.

Don't get me wrong, I respect your decision to wait until marriage, its a common tradition, I just don't see why it's necessary in order to prove you didn't get married for the sex. It sounds a little extreme so I wonder if there are other reasons, like religion or family tradition.

To your first question, not necessarily all couples get married just for sex, though some do. Some couples choose to abstain before marriage, especially Christian couples, but when people ask them why they want to marry they'll say "because we want to have sex," which is still a shallow mindset whether you're religious or not. Sex is one facet of marriage, a very enjoyable one, and nothing wrong with looking forward to it. But if that is your major reason for getting married, then the marriage is going to suffer because, as some of us can attest, you're not going to hear the mountains crumbling and the seas roaring everytime you have sex. Some nights if you're tired or have something on your mind, it can affect your sex life. And then for some couples, sex drive goes down or suffers because of medical or psychological reasons. So if good sex was your reason for getting married, what do you then?

True, my reasons for marriage stem from my beliefs as a Christian, but not every couple who marries are Christians, and I take that into consideration. Religious or not, married couples still can teach others some lessons about marriage. I mentioned my reasons for not marrying for sex because sex was the first issue raised by the person who started the discussion. They claimed that people shouldn't get married because the sex eventually stops or goes bad. Don't get me wrong, I look forward to having sex with my wife, but aside from my beliefs and such, I personally wanted our marriage to be based on something else than the physical aspect. Me, I've had sex before I got married, and yeah it was good, but I wanted more than that.

People have gotten into the habit of doing things for as long as it makes them feel good, and when that ends, go on to something/somone else. Free country, of course, do what you do, but if all you're looking out for is what you want and how you feel, why get married? People say the only difference between living together/civil unions and actual marriage is the piece of paper making it legal and the tax bracket change. But think about it...who are the main ones saying that? If I was betting man, I'd bet you it's people who have never been married or are opposed to marriage, or even people whose marriages have turned sour or know people whose marriages have turned sour. You almost never hear people who are even halfway happily married say that's the only difference. The difference is that person is just as much a part of you as your arm or leg, and you recognize your need to have them in your life. Single people or people who don't have marriage on their agenda can't understand that, and I didn't either until I actually got married.

Am I saying marriage is better than being single? No, not at all. Some people are better off not ever married. For some people, they need to be single, and for some, they need to settle down and get married. All I'm saying is if you still want to do what you want and don't want to have to sacrifice part of your life for another person, then marriage is not for you, and you shouldn't put yourself through imminent drama by getting married, because you're fooling yourself. But if you do want to get married, make sure you know why and know what marriage is about, and be prepared to put aside certain things about yourself because if you don't, you may as well bring divorce papers with you to the wedding.

Last edited by Sean77 : 03-13-2007 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

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Originally Posted by tpcslj47
Christopher Rock is a black.


You're observant.
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Sean 77, I respect your stance and agree with you
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
To your first question, not necessarily all couples get married just for sex, though some do. Some couples choose to abstain before marriage, especially Christian couples, but when people ask them why they want to marry they'll say "because we want to have sex," which is still a shallow mindset whether you're religious or not. Sex is one facet of marriage, a very enjoyable one, and nothing wrong with looking forward to it. But if that is your major reason for getting married, then the marriage is going to suffer because, as some of us can attest, you're not going to hear the mountains crumbling and the seas roaring everytime you have sex. Some nights if you're tired or have something on your mind, it can affect your sex life. And then for some couples, sex drive goes down or suffers because of medical or psychological reasons. So if good sex was your reason for getting married, what do you then?

True, my reasons for marriage stem from my beliefs as a Christian, but not every couple who marries are Christians, and I take that into consideration. Religious or not, married couples still can teach others some lessons about marriage. I mentioned my reasons for not marrying for sex because sex was the first issue raised by the person who started the discussion. They claimed that people shouldn't get married because the sex eventually stops or goes bad. Don't get me wrong, I look forward to having sex with my wife, but aside from my beliefs and such, I personally wanted our marriage to be based on something else than the physical aspect. Me, I've had sex before I got married, and yeah it was good, but I wanted more than that.

People have gotten into the habit of doing things for as long as it makes them feel good, and when that ends, go on to something/somone else. Free country, of course, do what you do, but if all you're looking out for is what you want and how you feel, why get married? People say the only difference between living together/civil unions and actual marriage is the piece of paper making it legal and the tax bracket change. But think about it...who are the main ones saying that? If I was betting man, I'd bet you it's people who have never been married or are opposed to marriage, or even people whose marriages have turned sour or know people whose marriages have turned sour. You almost never hear people who are even halfway happily married say that's the only difference. The difference is that person is just as much a part of you as your arm or leg, and you recognize your need to have them in your life. Single people or people who don't have marriage on their agenda can't understand that, and I didn't either until I actually got married.

Am I saying marriage is better than being single? No, not at all. Some people are better off not ever married. For some people, they need to be single, and for some, they need to settle down and get married. All I'm saying is if you still want to do what you want and don't want to have to sacrifice part of your life for another person, then marriage is not for you, and you shouldn't put yourself through imminent drama by getting married, because you're fooling yourself. But if you do want to get married, make sure you know why and know what marriage is about, and be prepared to put aside certain things about yourself because if you don't, you may as well bring divorce papers with you to the wedding.


Bless you man. At least some people are brought up with morals.
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:04 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
To your first question, not necessarily all couples get married just for sex, though some do. Some couples choose to abstain before marriage, especially Christian couples, but when people ask them why they want to marry they'll say "because we want to have sex," which is still a shallow mindset whether you're religious or not.
Thanks, while I agree with you, this doesn't address the question. My question was do you think couples that engage in premarital sex end up getting married just for the sex, and if so how come? The reason I asked this was because I didn't see the reasoning in the statement...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
Number one, we waited until wedding night to have sex. Why? Because I didn't marry her for sex.
Could you please explain the logic to me. (A logically equivalent statement to the one quoted above is that having sex before marriage implies you married her for sex, hence the original phrasing of my question).


Quote:
People say the only difference between living together/civil unions and actual marriage is the piece of paper making it legal and the tax bracket change. But think about it...who are the main ones saying that? If I was betting man, I'd bet you it's people who have never been married or are opposed to marriage, or even people whose marriages have turned sour or know people whose marriages have turned sour. You almost never hear people who are even halfway happily married say that's the only difference. The difference is that person is just as much a part of you as your arm or leg, and you recognize your need to have them in your life. Single people or people who don't have marriage on their agenda can't understand that, and I didn't either until I actually got married.
First of all, those who say that "living together/civil union" is distinguished by legality from "actual mariage" aren't quite correct, but not for the reasons you gave. In fact there are some cases where there is no legal distinction. But what is your basis for assuming those people have had adverse experiences with marriage? The fact that you haven't heard happily married couples state legality as the only difference between marriage and cohabitation/civil union doesn't prove anything. It especially doesn't imply that there is something more to marriage than legality. As to your theory that there is some higher emotional connection which distinguishes "actual marriage," I ask you to prove that it is impossible for nonmarried couples to have the same emotions as married couples.

Marriage is not synonomous with emotion. For most couples there is mutual love, commitment, trust, etc... which exists regardless of their marital status, in fact I would say marriage is the result of the way two people feel for each other, not the other way around. There are many reasons to get married besides emotion, like social and legal recognition as well as economic stability, and with regard to these reasons marriage is in many ways just a government recognized contract.

Last edited by Jabes : 03-14-2007 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why people shouldn't get married

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabes
Thanks, while I agree with you, this doesn't address the question. My question was do you think couples that engage in premarital sex end up getting married just for the sex, and if so how come? The reason I asked this was because I didn't see the reasoning in the statement...

Could you please explain the logic to me. (A logically equivalent statement to the one quoted above is that having sex before marriage implies you married her for sex, hence the original phrasing of my question).



First of all, those who say that "living together/civil union" is distinguished by legality from "actual mariage" aren't quite correct, but not for the reasons you gave. In fact there are some cases where there is no legal distinction. But what is your basis for assuming those people have had adverse experiences with marriage? The fact that you haven't heard happily married couples state legality as the only difference between marriage and cohabitation/civil union doesn't prove anything. It especially doesn't imply that there is something more to marriage than legality. As to your theory that there is some higher emotional connection which distinguishes "actual marriage," I ask you to prove that it is impossible for nonmarried couples to have the same emotions as married couples.

Marriage is not synonomous with emotion. For most couples there is mutual love, commitment, trust, etc... which exists regardless of their marital status, in fact I would say marriage is the result of the way two people feel for each other, not the other way around. There are many reasons to get married besides emotion, like social and legal recognition as well as economic stability, and with regard to these reasons marriage is in many ways just a government recognized contract.

My bad, I'll rephrase. What I was getting at was many couples, married or unmarried, have relationships based on sex. It may not have been their original reason for being together, but it may well be their reason for staying together. And once that aspect dies down, the relationship/marriage inevitably goes south unless there's something more.

When I say I didn't marry her for sex, I mean my reasons for wanting to marry her was not only because I was attracted to her physically. I understood that sex was but one part of marriage, but it should not be treated as the litmus test for marital success. True, trouble in the bed could be a symptom to certain problems within the marriage, but if the success of the marriage itself is measured(totally or in part) on how good the sex is, it's a shallow marriage. Dare I say, it's not much of a marriage at all.

Concerning the marriage vs. civil union/living together issue I brought up. my statement wasn't concerning what I've heard or not heard from either side of the argument, but rather each side's viewpoint, attitude and overall impression of marriage. People who either don't see much point to marriage or don't hold the concept of marriage in any high regard - they make up the majority of people who would say there isn't much difference. Those who don't even understand and/or don't want to understand what marriage is all about will most definitely not see the importance of it.

My reasons for putting marriage on a higher pedestal than civil unions aren't based on emotion. When I said, "The difference is that person is just as much a part of you as your arm or leg, and you recognize your need to have them in your life," that was not a description of an emotional attachment to one's spouse. It's a description of the nature of a marriage, or at least a successful one. There are a lot of couples who lived together first and later got married who can attest to the differences in an unmarried relationship and a married one. I personally could see the difference in my home because my stepfather moved in and lived with us for six years before he and Mom got married. But even though I saw the difference in their relationship day to day, I still couldn't understand fully, because I wasn't married yet. It wasn't until I got married that I now realize how vastly different marriage is from a relationship between two unmarried people. Just for clarification, my mom got married long before she became a Christian, and I wasn't a Christian at the time my mom got married, so my impression of marriage wasn't totally based on a Christian perspective.

If I could prove it to you, I would. However the only "proof" or tangible reference I have to offer you is found in the Bible. There's a long version, which I'll spare you of, but the short version involves Genesis 2:24: " For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Since this post is already long, I can explain this further in a separate post if you wish me to. If not, it's all good, I'm not one to beat people over the head with the Bible, though I have no problems explaining my faith if one so requests.

But yes, my views on marriage are largely founded on what the Bible says, but now I can speak from experience. Because even though it's only been five months since my wedding, a lot has happened in those five months which have helped me learn just what marriage is about. For example, some people say marriage is 50/50, give and take. I'd say it's like that sometimes, but there are times when the other person can't give 50%. Sometimes they can only give 10%, and it may be for a long time, and you have to come up with the other 90%--for a long time. Now as a single person, you don't have any obligation to endure that if you don't want to, you haven't made any commitment to that type of relationship, nor should you if you are single. But when you marry, and you make those vows, those aren't just words. That's a pledge you're making to not only that person, but yourself and God. So if those vows are broken, and you broke them, you not only let that person down, but yourself and God. Now, the Bible does state clearly – and in Jesus own words as well, the red letters – if your spouse commits sexual immorality, i.e. adultery, that is acceptable grounds for divorce. There is another instance the Bible gives, one where the other person wants to leave. The Bible says if they want out of the marriage, you're not bound to them if they don't want to be bound to you. But mind you, these are situations where the other person broke their vows first. There is no acceptable instance for being the one to break the vows first.

I could keep going, but I'm sure you might have a response, so I'll stop here give you and other a chance to do so.

Last edited by Sean77 : 03-14-2007 at 01:22 PM.
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