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Old 05-21-2014, 03:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

It would have been nice if the Kings actually got a top 2 pick for once, instead we are now looking to trade the 8th pick.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
If you get a #1, #2, #4 over the course of a bad stretch, fine, especially if your team set out strategically to land those, including trading players for picks that worked out. But 3 #1s is unheard of, and to do it by pure luck after your shitty team failed to make the playoffs with a pretty good roster? Just insane.

Imagine if Clippers had Griffin (2009), but then lucked into Irving 2 years later, followed by Anthony Davis. There would be no excuse for them to not be a championship contender.
Erm, the Clippers did luck into the Irving pick. They just stupidly traded it to the Cavs prior to the draft with no protections. Wouldn't such a move be a credit to the Cavs' organization? I mean, isn't Irving only on the team because of a heady trade? The Cavs made their own luck that year at the Clippers' expense.

If Sterling would have been willing to pay Baron Davis' contract for one more season, they would have had back-to-back No. 1 picks that were far easier and in better drafts than what the Cavs have faced the last two years.

And, it's not the same as the situation you described above... at all. Both Griffin and Davis were clear No. 1 picks, as was Kyrie to a lesser extent.

The Cavs, with their own actual pick, have gotten the No. 1 selection twice, but one was in what may go down as the worst draft class ever. Guys like McLemore, Porter and Len and the teams that drafted them were actually much better off not going No. 1, because they were all awful and didn't have to endure the scrutiny of being the No. 1 pick. As it turned out, having the top pick last year was more a distraction than a godsend and it would have been that way had the Cavs gone in most of the other possible directions being considered (McLemore, Porter, Len).

That's nothing like having clear picks like Griffin, Davis or Irving dropped in your lap.

Even this year, it seems Embiid is most people's top pick, but he has a potentially serious medical issue afoot. Again, not a clear choice here like the three you mentioned. The right choices still have to be made and it isn't as easy as just saying "Anthony Davis" and closing the book. When it comes to "lucking into players," draft classes matter... a lot.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 05-21-2014 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
I have never had any problems with the Cavs and felt bad for them when LeBron left, but I think I will now have a hard time rooting for them. If they are successful, it will feel gifted and unearned. They have no excuse for being a shitty franchise now and if they win, it will be because "they should have."

Are people serious?

First it was "build the team the right way; through the draft".

Now even that isn't the right way.

It has become "build the team right way, without getting too lucky, and don't buy too many good players as well"...


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Old 05-21-2014, 04:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
Are people serious?

First it was "build the team the right way; through the draft".

Now even that isn't the right way.

It has become "build the team right way, without getting too lucky, and don't buy too many good players as well"...


People are insane.

Simmons has been using the phrase "God hates Cleveland" for several years. Now, all of a sudden, even he's acting like everything good gets handed to us... Cleveland.

Insane.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Erm, the Clippers did luck into the Irving pick. They just stupidly traded it to the Cavs prior to the draft with no protections. Wouldn't such a move be a credit to the Cavs' organization? I mean, isn't Irving only on the team because of a heady trade? The Cavs made their own luck that year at the Clippers' expense.

Forgot about that. Still Cavs lucked into 2 #1 picks AFTER landing Irving.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:31 AM   #21
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
People are insane.

Simmons has been using the phrase "God hates Cleveland" for several years. Now, all of a sudden, even he's acting like everything good gets handed to us... Cleveland.

Insane.

It is a damn lottery. It is completely random. People need to get over it.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
Are people serious?

First it was "build the team the right way; through the draft".

Now even that isn't the right way.

It has become "build the team right way, without getting too lucky, and don't buy too many good players as well"...



The difference between Cavs and the Heat though, is you can't really hold it against the Cavs organization the same way in the sense that they lucked out rather than the players colluding to make a super team. But at the same time, it would be hard to credit the organization for their success if they get 3 #1 picks in 4 years. Any team to do that should be expected to win.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:37 AM   #23
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
The difference between Cavs and the Heat though, is you can't really hold it against the Cavs organization the same way in the sense that they lucked out rather than the players colluding to make a super team. But at the same time, it would be hard to credit the organization for their success if they get 3 #1 picks in 4 years. Any team to do that should be expected to win.

You can't hold it against either team.

One team got lucky through the draft, the other signed free agents.

There is no right way to build a team, like some on here think. Well there is, and the Heat are doing it right recently, since they've been the team winning.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Forgot about that. Still Cavs lucked into 2 #1 picks AFTER landing Irving.
...one of which was in a draft that probably most GMs were happy to pick 2nd-5th instead.

Look, I'm not saying what has happened isn't perplexing. I was shocked by tonight's result. But, people really do need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture when acting like a dynasty has been handed to us on a silver platter.

There have been no LeBrons or Durants in the drafts we've had high picks in over the last few years. The closest thing is Anthony Davis, and New Orleans won the lottery that year. That's the best draft we've taken part in post-LeBron and our pick was actually knocked down one spot from where it was projected prior to the lottery.

We'll see what happens with these guys in this upcoming draft... hopefully it will turn out well. But, so far, it definitely doesn't feel like the deck has been unfairly stacked in the Cavs' favor. It's not because of bad picks, either... Irving was the right choice, Thompson/Waiters were perfectly reasonable where they went and last year's draft was abhorrent.

There were no Tim Duncans, Shaqs or LeBrons available, as far as I can tell.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 05-21-2014 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:37 AM   #25
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

The point is, being gifted a player happens. Being gifted the whole core of a team just takes away a challenge that makes it fun to root for a team. Thunder was gifted Durant, but they made smart selections outside of that. Spurs were gifted Duncan back in the day, but the rest of their core was made from wise decisions. Much easier rooting for rosters that weren't completely gifted to a franchise IMO.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
You can't hold it against either team.

One team got lucky through the draft, the other signed free agents.

There is no right way to build a team, like some on here think. Well there is, and the Heat are doing it right recently, since they've been the team winning.

Correct there's no right way to build. Things aren't cut and dry tho, people look into how things are formed. Superstars joining up to win is pretty shady and pretty ugly for the sport. Having 3/4 of the #1 overall picks while not as bad because the Cavaliers didn't intend for it to happen still gives them the "spoiled" image.

There's a reason why people who don't even follow basketball hated the Heat before they even had success, or when they lost in the finals. NFL fans, NHL fans heck any sport fans mock the Heat and there's a reason for it. Cleveland walking away with 3/4 1st overall picks will be mocked and laughed at just like it would be in ANY sport. Just like it would be with a person who won the real lottery 3 times.

If they win it'll be like yeah there suppose to tho, just like it is with Miami. Not to the same degree obviously because draft picks are known. When they lose they'll be laughed at more so than a normal team, just like Miami. It's human nature. Just like kids born into trust funds are mocked
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:48 AM   #27
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
The point is, being gifted a player happens. Being gifted the whole core of a team just takes away a challenge that makes it fun to root for a team. Thunder was gifted Durant, but they made smart selections outside of that. Spurs were gifted Duncan back in the day, but the rest of their core was made from wise decisions. Much easier rooting for rosters that weren't completely gifted to a franchise IMO.
...and the Cavs haven't been "gifted" anything close to a Durant or a Duncan. That's the point you seem to be missing.

Also, I'll point out to you that this Spurs dynasty actually involved TWO No. 1 picks, both of which were clearly the best in their draft classes and HOF players (Robinson/Duncan).

Root for whomever you choose. I'm sure you would have turned against the Blazers if they got lucky a few times in the lottery. Why would you root for the Cavs anyway?
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
People are insane.


Not really. I've watched the exact same thing happen in another sport and the reactions were exactly the same. It'll fade away soon enough and if the Cavs fail people will make a joke out of it and if they succeed people will act less impressed.

It'll be like a waaaaaaaay smaller version of the Miami situation.

If I was in your position I wouldn't care, but I wouldn't act surprised or think people were crazy when they were like that's bullshit
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:59 AM   #29
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Not really. I've watched the exact same thing happen in another sport and the reactions were exactly the same. It'll fade away soon enough and if the Cavs fail people will make a joke out of it and if they succeed people will act less impressed.

It'll be like a waaaaaaaay smaller version of the Miami situation.

If I was in your position I wouldn't care, but I wouldn't act surprised or think people were crazy when they were like that's bullshit
Even comparing this to the Miami situation on a much smaller scale is just crazy.

I don't follow hockey, so I'm not qualified to comment on what kind of talent was available in the drafts they won... but am I to believe that the strength of the draft doesn't matter and that "just winning" should be enough to create a dynasty?

What if you happen to get a bunch of high picks in drafts that just aren't very good? Because, that's sort of what has happened with the Cavs, at least prior to this coming draft (we'll see how it goes)... certainly last year and arguably in 2011 when Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Jonas Valanciunas, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker and Jimmer Fredette were 9 of the first 10 picks.

There isn't a single franchise-changing talent among that group... Not one. A bunch of role players at best, scrubs at worst. And last year was 10x worse.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 05-21-2014 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:03 AM   #30
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
...and the Cavs haven't been "gifted" anything close to a Durant or a Duncan. That's the point you seem to be missing.

Also, I'll point out to you that this Spurs dynasty actually involved TWO No. 1 picks, both of which were clearly the best in their draft classes and HOF players (Robinson/Duncan).

Root for whomever you choose. I'm sure you would have turned against the Blazers if they got lucky a few times in the lottery. Why would you root for the Cavs anyway?

I'm not missing that point. My point is that they should be "a" top team. They may not have a Durant or Duncan, but they have certainly been gifted an opportunity that should put them over a majority of the league. And although they didn't get gifted a player of that caliber, they are consistently getting all the opportunity in the world to make a powerhouse team, while all of the other teams in the draft are getting the scraps.

Really? You have to go all the way back to the 80s to track the success of the Spurs? Spurs have been just as successful (more successful really) after Robinson retired, so it is kind of pointless even mentioning him. For the last decade, Spurs have been successful with 1 gifted player that they successfully built around.

Of course I wouldn't turn against the Blazers, and I don't expect you to turn against your Cavs. I would count my blessings that we got 3 #1 picks in 4 years, but I'd like to think I would understand how other fans would have a hard time rooting for my team rather than getting defensive about it.
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