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Old 05-21-2014, 05:07 AM   #31
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
certainly last year and arguably in 2011 when Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Jonas Valanciunas, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker and Jimmer Fredette were 9 of the first 10 picks.

What you just listed in the 2011 year is what I mean by scraps. Yes, Irving is no Durant or Duncan, but he is heads and tails above the scraps, so why are the Cavs still in the lottery (in the East) lucking out into #1 picks. Last year wasn't great, but the Cavs also f*cked up bad and that is their own fault.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:07 AM   #32
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Old 05-21-2014, 05:14 AM   #33
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by Myth
I'm not missing that point. My point is that they should be "a" top team. They may not have a Durant or Duncan, but they have certainly been gifted an opportunity that should put them over a majority of the league. And although they didn't get gifted a player of that caliber, they are consistently getting all the opportunity in the world to make a powerhouse team, while all of the other teams in the draft are getting the scraps.

Really? You have to go all the way back to the 80s to track the success of the Spurs? Spurs have been just as successful (more successful really) after Robinson retired, so it is kind of pointless even mentioning him. For the last decade, Spurs have been successful with 1 gifted player that they successfully built around.

Of course I wouldn't turn against the Blazers, and I don't expect you to turn against your Cavs. I would count my blessings that we got 3 #1 picks in 4 years, but I'd like to think I would understand how other fans would have a hard time rooting for my team rather than getting defensive about it.
you clearly are missing the point or just have no clue to begin with.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:14 AM   #34
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by Myth
I'm not missing that point. My point is that they should be "a" top team. They may not have a Durant or Duncan, but they have certainly been gifted an opportunity that should put them over a majority of the league. And although they didn't get gifted a player of that caliber, they are consistently getting all the opportunity in the world to make a powerhouse team, while all of the other teams in the draft are getting the scraps.

Really? You have to go all the way back to the 80s to track the success of the Spurs? Spurs have been just as successful (more successful really) after Robinson retired, so it is kind of pointless even mentioning him. For the last decade, Spurs have been successful with 1 gifted player that they successfully built around.

Of course I wouldn't turn against the Blazers, and I don't expect you to turn against your Cavs. I would count my blessings that we got 3 #1 picks in 4 years, but I'd like to think I would understand how other fans would have a hard time rooting for my team rather than getting defensive about it.
Robinson played through 2003 and his rookie season was 1990. Yeah, I think he deserves mentioning, especially since he was a big part of two of their four championship teams.

The Robinson draft was the beginning of that franchise's turnaround from irrelevant to top notch. I'm not saying they aren't brilliant in other aspects... they are. But, luck always plays a role in a dynasty like the one they've created and they lucked into two of the best and most obvious No. 1 picks in the modern era.

Our luck has been different... more plentiful in a shorter span of time, but without the individual impact of a Duncan/Robinson.

Listen, a lot of people hated the Cavs and Cleveland prior to this, so I'm assuming not much is going to change. But, I do think it's ridiculous that any success will now be open season for mocking when one LeBron or one Duncan can be more valuable than all the picks we've accumulated combined.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:17 AM   #35
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
What you just listed in the 2011 year is what I mean by scraps. Yes, Irving is no Durant or Duncan, but he is heads and tails above the scraps, so why are the Cavs still in the lottery (in the East) lucking out into #1 picks. Last year wasn't great, but the Cavs also f*cked up bad and that is their own fault.
Completely off-topic, but I don't think they "f#cking up bad." Bennett still has a lot of upside and he showed something when he was given the opportunity. That may still turn out to be a decent pick in a bad draft.

And, again, the Irving pick shouldn't even be brought up in this conversation which is why I left him out of that list... The Cavs acquired him with exactly the kind of heady trade you'd be praising the Spurs or OKC for.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:17 AM   #36
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Even comparing this to the Miami situation on a much smaller scale is just crazy.

It is but I can't think of a better comparison. There the same in the sense that I bet Cleveland catches heat if they fail to do anything, and if they succeed will get people being like whatever. Not trolls or idiots or people just on msg but just in general. Doesn't make them "crazy" it's just a natural reaction. Completely different from Miami I guess and probably a bad comparison.

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I don't follow hockey, so I'm not qualified to comment on what kind of talent was available in the drafts they won... but am I to believe that the strength of the draft doesn't matter and that "just winning" should be enough to create a dynasty?


The situation with the hockey team is actually kinda similar to the Cavs in terms of there drafts. Different sport tho, individuals have less of an impact. I only used it as an example because they won the lottery a bunch of times and still get clowned for it and catch heat. It's actually strangely similar how much it's been close to that

Strength of the draft matters but at the end of the day the FIRST overall pick is going to side step that. Your talking about the pick of the litter. How do you think what your saying affects the teams that were worse off than Cleveland yet didn't get the first stab at the talent? When you get the 1st overall pick expectations come with it, expectations are apart of everything.

Quote:
What if you happen to get a bunch of high picks in drafts that just aren't very good? Because, that's sort of what has happened with the Cavs, at least prior to this coming draft (we'll see how it goes)... certainly last year and arguably in 2011 when Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Jonas Valanciunas, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker and Jimmer Fredette were 9 of the first 10 picks.

I mean this draft looks pretty elite at the top. Irving while at the time wasn't hyped as such I think outside of the truly game changing guys is the next best thing. If you can't grab a LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, MJ, Duncan, Durant etc. than I think when all said and done Kyrie is in that next tier.

Quote:
There isn't a single franchise-changing talent among that group... Not one. A bunch of role players at best, scrubs at worst. And last year was 10x worse.

I'm not even saying it's completely fair. At this point I'm not that annoyed with it. I deff was being abit of a troll originally. Just that no matter the strength of the draft when a team gets the 1st overall pick 3/4 drafts it's without question bullshit. Bad for the NBA. Nobody wants to see that. If the pick was 2nd or 3rd there would be far less of a shit storm and it wouldn't stay in people's minds as long. 3 years from now if the Cavs make the finals 3 first overall picks sticks out. 3rd overall, 2nd overall than 1st doesn't as much.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by El Gato Negro
you clearly are missing the point or just have no clue to begin with.

How am I missing my own f*cking point? I came in here and made a claim about why I think I will have a hard time rooting for them, and people got defensive. I keep being thrown the "but we didn't get a Durant or Duncan" point, which is irrelevant to my original point.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:21 AM   #38
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
And, again, the Irving pick shouldn't even be brought up in this conversation which is why I left him out of that list... The Cavs acquired him with exactly the kind of heady trade you'd be praising the Spurs or OKC for.

And despite getting a #1 pick (good for them on that trade), they lucked into 2 #1 picks. The issue isn't that they got 1 #1 pick, it is that AFTER having a quality #1 pick, they still are getting #1 pick after #1 pick. A team shouldn't need that much luck to succeed when they already have pieces to build around, but the Cavs couldn't drag their sorry asses into the East playoffs despite a more than adequate roster, and then they luck into the 3rd 1st.

Last edited by Myth : 05-21-2014 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:22 AM   #39
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by Myth
How am I missing my own f*cking point? I came in here and made a claim about why I think I will have a hard time rooting for them, and people got defensive. I keep being thrown the "but we didn't get a Durant or Duncan" point, which is irrelevant to my original point.

Not to mention Duncan and Robinson were how many drafts apart? Robinson being on the backside of his career when Duncan was getting started. Wasn't he like 35 during the 2nd championship? ... Spurs later consisting of late round steals in Manu/Tony Parker.

Cavaliers just ripped off 3 1st overalls in 4 years. Robinson was drafted 1st overall in 86' the Spurs made the playoffs and than he got hurt and the Spurs "kept him out" which BTW gets mentioned by fans too and drafted Duncan in 1997.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:25 AM   #40
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
How am I missing my own f*cking point? I came in here and made a claim about why I think I will have a hard time rooting for them, and people got defensive. I keep being thrown the "but we didn't get a Durant or Duncan" point, which is irrelevant to my original point.
You have no point other than i hate Cleveland. The cavs havnt missed on draft picks they have plenty of cap space, expiring contracts for trades and loads of future picks including three first rounders next year. they havnt messed up anywhere other than coaching and have been very unlucky to get high draft picks in shit draft classes. those the facts not the force fed ish/espn bs.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:27 AM   #41
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

You guys are clearly salty end of story. Cleveland loves you! keep trying to spin the shit drafts as if there were star players to be had tho its amusing.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:27 AM   #42
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Irving while at the time wasn't hyped as such I think outside of the truly game changing guys is the next best thing. If you can't grab a LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, MJ, Duncan, Durant etc. than I think when all said and done Kyrie is in that next tier.
I love Kyrie, but I'll say it again... the Cavs' organization deserves credit for him being a Cavalier, not viewed as a gift. That was one of the best trades any franchise has made in the last several years. And, again, that's the kind of move that any other franchise would get a ton of love for doing... but, at least from my perspective, it's viewed as "just luck" because it's the Cavs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
I'm not even saying it's completely fair. At this point I'm not that annoyed with it. I deff was being abit of a troll originally. Just that no matter the strength of the draft when a team gets the 1st overall pick 3/4 drafts it's without question bullshit. Bad for the NBA. Nobody wants to see that. If the pick was 2nd or 3rd there would be far less of a shit storm and it wouldn't stay in people's minds as long. 3 years from now if the Cavs make the finals 3 first overall picks sticks out. 3rd overall, 2nd overall than 1st doesn't as much.
I know rage posting when I see it. I've probably done it in my time here, which is why I wasn't too harsh in my retorts earlier. We have a cordial history on this board and I'd like it to remain that way.

With that said, I think a lot of the arguments here are misguided. The actual individual drafts matter... a lot. And, up to this point, I don't feel the Cavs have really been gifted all that much (again, Kyrie was had in a trade). I expect this draft to be much better than the last few, so this pick is hugely important... but, getting No. 1 last year and No. 4 in 2011 and 2012 doesn't exactly strike me as being gifted a dynasty regardless of who we took.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:28 AM   #43
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Not to mention Duncan and Robinson were how many drafts apart? Robinson being on the backside of his career when Duncan was getting started. Wasn't he like 35 during the 2nd championship? ... Spurs later consisting of late round steals in Manu/Tony Parker.

Cavaliers just ripped off 3 1st overalls in 4 years. Robinson was drafted 1st overall in 86' the Spurs made the playoffs and than he got hurt and the Spurs "kept him out" which BTW gets mentioned by fans too and drafted Duncan in 1997.

1987 actually, but fully agree.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:31 AM   #44
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

OP iz wrong on this. This draft lottery is rigged, 3 out of 4 years of being number 1 pick sure isn't lucky its nuttin but pure bullshit and a plot to lure Lebron back into Cleveland. What else could tha shit be?
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:35 AM   #45
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Default Re: Get the fvck over the draft lottery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
And despite getting a #1 pick (good for them on that trade), they lucked into 2 #1 picks. The issue isn't that they got 1 #1 pick, it is that AFTER having a quality #1 pick, they still are getting #1 pick after #1 pick. A team shouldn't need that much luck to succeed when they already have pieces to build around, but the Cavs couldn't drag their sorry asses into the East playoffs despite a more than adequate roster, and then they luck into the 3rd 1st.
The misguided Bynum experiment cost them a spot in the playoffs this year, no doubt about. I liked the move at the time, though, and still think it was worth the risk (since there was no risk, financially speaking).

It's not like they didn't try to get in after he was gone, too. The acquisitions of Deng and Hawes got them very close, but the Bynum hole was a little too deep to climb out of. They were close, while also being the second youngest roster in the league.

What happened tonight was by pure chance. They had the best record of any team picking in the Top 10 in the draft. This was not a case of tanking for a pick. That's why I'm not going apologize for getting a little lucky, especially for a sports town that has endured as much bad luck as Cleveland, be it the Browns, Indians or Cavs.

Maybe there is something to this karma thing, because I feel like if any fans deserve it, it is ours.
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