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Old 03-15-2007, 08:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Oh geez, not another drone.
Sorry, but we can't all be roid-boosting dopeheads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Um.......yea, and taking Tylenol could can be hazardous to your liver and kidney's if you take enough of it. HGH has been used for years in anti-aging therapy and the reports of adverse effects are around like 0.000004%.
The only time negative side-effects are reported is when some exceeds the regular dose, that is, instead of taking 1 or 2 IU's p/day, they exceed 20 or 30.
This is one of the most highly studied compounds anywhere. If you are at all educated on its proper uses, proper dosage and nutritional protocol to go along with it, one can safely use HGH for years without so much as a negative blip on their health. In fact, your immune function will be boosted, your skin and hair will be greatly restored, your muscles and joints will recover and remain healthier overall, your digestive process will be more efficient and you will retain less fat, thereby preventing the onset of obesity, which is the real major killer.
And here's the ginormous problem: When athletes are cheating for a "competitive edge" someone is always going to exceed what their body can safely process. So if you permit garbage like HGH then athletes are going to suffer and die from it, because there is no assurance that athletes will use it safely" once they start using it. How do you think people end up dying from overdoses? But you just keep on doping, I'm sure that your liver will love you in 30 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Also, you should know that HGH is being used to treat diabetes, so I think its time for you to go and read up.

I did read up. Where do you think I heard it causes diabetes, Dr. Conte?
Quote:
Long-term abuse, as seen in athletic use, can lead to more pronounced, and sometimes deadly, side effects such as irregular heart rhythms, increased risk of diabetes, joint and facial deformities, and a shut down of the pituitary glands.
'
Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
HGH is not a dangerous supplement, its a substance that your body produces naturally. Ironically enough, the use of HGH actually prevents the same "destroying of the body" that you are talking about.
Have you ever taken a college chemistry course? Just because your body produces something naturally doesn't mean that ingesting more of it is safe. As in all biochemical reactions it's important that your body have a certain balance. Upset that balance and you're in trouble.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

even if Evander did take HGH, he probably wouldn't remember.
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Sorry, but we can't all be roid-boosting dopeheads.


Yea, calling HGH "roids" is a total sign of your education, or lack therefore of.

Quote:
And here's the ginormous problem: When athletes are cheating for a "competitive edge" someone is always going to exceed what their body can safely process. So if you permit garbage like HGH then athletes are going to suffer and die from it, because there is no assurance that athletes will use it safely" once they start using it. How do you think people end up dying from overdoses? But you just keep on doping, I'm sure that your liver will love you in 30 years.


What the hell are you talking about? We have people "exceeding what their body can safely process" with food and alcohol. You want to ban those too???? Stupid is as stupid does. People will always do stuff like that, but that isn't necessarily the norm, rather, the exception. '

You must be one of the those folks who still thinks that we are winning the war on drugs and that the government should do everything possible to control the lives of its citizens, to protect them, from themselves of course.



Nice source, its an advertising site you dimwit. The product they sell is an "HGH alternative" which=total bulls%^t. They have a financial stake in attacking HGH in order to promote their own "natural placebo crap."
'
Quote:
Have you ever taken a college chemistry course? Just because your body produces something naturally doesn't mean that ingesting more of it is safe. As in all biochemical reactions it's important that your body have a certain balance. Upset that balance and you're in trouble.

The better question is....have you? Your lack of knowledge on this subject is overwhelming, its like arguing physics with a 5 year old.

Also, as far as HGH, it all depends on the need for it. For example, as we age, natural HGH levels decrease, in men, natural testosterone levels decrease. So for a 23 year old taking these, its an extreme, and there is a lot more potential for contraindications to occur.

When you have a man over 35 however, whose own levels of testosterone and HGH are beginning to decline, an appropriate dose will restore them to their natural state. Then again, this varies, as there are 20 year olds who are medically prescribed testosterone because their own natural levels are so low.

I fail to see why it is somehow wrong for a man in his 30s/40s/50s and up to be taking something that his body naturally produces anyway, that taken within reason is both safe and extremely beneficial to his wellbeing and extending his overall life, and quality of life.


Its funny that people have these issues, because women, even before menopause, are often given estrogen therapy to ward off depression, fatigue and other symptoms of suboptimum hormonal levels. When it comes to men, all of a sudden, its "evil" and idiots like you start busting out the "roidhead" nonsense. Its proven that GH use in both men and women, can greatly increase overall health, increase white blood cell count, lead to drops in bodyfat, help control blood glucose levels and decrease resistance to insulin when used properly.

Anything in this world can be abused. Tylenol can be abused, alcohol can be abused, it goes on and on. Getting GH is a lot harder than tylenol, and a lot pricier too, when you consider the average dose of GH and the typical price, even with all the generics available, its definitely not in the price range that someone will want to play around and overload on it.




Maybe if you took the time to educate yourself a bit, you wouldn't come across as so damn ignorant on an issue that you obviously know nothing about.

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Old 03-15-2007, 09:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

I'm guessing that Real Green voted for Bush. He seems like another group-think lackey, who simply does as he is told and never thinks for himself. Around the world, men and women use HGH to enhance their lives, to lengthen them and make them more enjoyable. Men in most countries, can go into a pharmacy and buy testosterone to improve the quality of their life. Only in America are people beholden to this insanity of "evil steroids." The media pushes a bunch of myth's, which have been debunked several times.

The government sits around and laughs, as they continually increase control of the populace.

The idea that violent people use steroids or HGH is ridiculous. The vast majority, as evidenced by polls, are regular folks, CEO's, bankers, accountants, schoolteachers and pretty much every other type imaginable, people in their mid 30's, looking to improve the quality of their life, safely and efficiently, and for this, the government wants to label them as criminals.

Like for example the idea of "uncontrollable roid rage", which has already been proven not to be true. Testosterone increases your aggression levels, but unless you are already a violent *******, the addition of simple testosterone won't make you an automatic violent *******.


Also, tell me this, when was the last time that you heard about someone that got mugged or jacked by an HGH or steroid user looking to get their "fix."
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Yea, calling HGH "roids" is a total sign of your education, or lack therefore of.
I didn't call HGH roids, genius. Next up:
Quote:
What the hell are you talking about? We have people "exceeding what their body can safely process" with food and alcohol. You want to ban those too???? Stupid is as stupid does. People will always do stuff like that, but that isn't necessarily the norm, rather, the exception. '
You don't get it at all. Athletes know the risks involved in these kinds of things and abuse them anyway because they want to be the better player. Bonds didn't need HGH to be a great hitter but took it anyway, just so that he could pass McGuire. It's called "escalation."
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You must be one of the those folks who still thinks that we are winning the war on drugs and that the government should do everything possible to control the lives of its citizens, to protect them, from themselves of course.

I don't believe in illegalizing drugs just because it fills prisons with criminals that aren't really dangerous, but some substances should definitely be controlled, and whether you get it or not, it's bad to permit an environment where athletes are forced to start doping to keep up with the competition.
Quote:
Nice source, its an advertising site you dimwit. The product they sell is an "HGH alternative" which=total bulls%^t. They have a financial stake in attacking HGH in order to promote their own "natural placebo crap."
How about this one, Doctor Conte?

Quote:
The better question is....have you? Your lack of knowledge on this subject is overwhelming, its like arguing physics with a 5 year old.

Yes, I did. Passed it, too. Now, have you? Are you aware of what happens when orgams like th eliver get overloaded?
Quote:
Also, as far as HGH, it all depends on the need for it. For example, as we age, natural HGH levels decrease, in men, natural testosterone levels decrease. So for a 23 year old taking these, its an extreme, and there is a lot more potential for contraindications to occur.
And how old do you think pro and other athletes are?
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When you have a man over 35 however, whose own levels of testosterone and HGH are beginning to decline, an appropriate dose will restore them to their natural state. Then again, this varies, as there are 20 year olds who are medically prescribed testosterone because their own natural levels are so low.
No they won't, because there's nothing "natural" about injecting yourself with hormones.
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I fail to see why it is somehow wrong for a man in his 30s/40s/50s and up to be taking something that his body naturally produces anyway, that taken within reason is both safe and extremely beneficial to his wellbeing and extending his overall life, and quality of life.
This is because you don't understand biochemistry. First of all, That man's body does not naturally produce the amount of hgh he has in his system after an injection, so stop talking about something being "natural" when it is not. Second of all, if that man is in his 30s/40s and is part of a pro league where his hgh gives him an unfair advantage over the competition...well, you don't get such things, so nevermind.

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Its funny that people have these issues, because women, even before menopause, are often given estrogen therapy to ward off depression, fatigue and other symptoms of suboptimum hormonal levels. When it comes to men, all of a sudden, its "evil" and idiots like you start busting out the "roidhead" nonsense. Its proven that GH use in both men and women, can greatly increase overall health, increase white blood cell count, lead to drops in bodyfat, help control blood glucose levels and decrease resistance to insulin when used properly.
Unfortunately, Doctor, it is often used improperly.
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Maybe if you took the time to educate yourself a bit, you wouldn't come across as so damn ignorant on an issue that you obviously know nothing about.
Doesn't seem to me like you're any kind of expert, just some jerk that's probably doping himself and wants to justify his habit. Keep on playing with those needles.
Quote:
I'm guessing that Real Green voted for Bush.
I'm guessing that you talk out of your ass often.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

[quote=Real Men Wear Green]I didn't call HGH roids, genius. Next up:


Quote:
You don't get it at all. Athletes know the risks involved in these kinds of things and abuse them anyway because they want to be the better player. Bonds didn't need HGH to be a great hitter but took it anyway, just so that he could pass McGuire. It's called "escalation."

HGH isn't taken for strength boosts, as much as it is taken for improved health, recovery and injury prevention. Bodybuilders use it to increase muscle mass, but its strength-boosting effects are greatly exaggerated, the body saving effects are much more valuable.

Quote:
I don't believe in illegalizing drugs just because it fills prisons with criminals that aren't really dangerous, but some substances should definitely be controlled, and whether you get it or not, it's bad to permit an environment where athletes are forced to start doping to keep up with the competition.

What is this special emphasis that Americans have on athletes? Like these people are retarded or something. Steroids are legal in most other countries of the world and there is no giant abundance of "steroid abusers." The only one I can think of was a German fellow named Munzer. If people decide to abuse these substances, then that is on them. The same way that people abuse alcohol at dangerous levels, not too long ago, there was a woman who died from consuming too much water.

Try as much as you want, you can't ban stupidity. That is no excuse to deny access to things that the vast majority of people would see benefit from, assuming safe and educated use.


Heavy insulin use. Bodybuilders love their insulin, especially the top guys, and if you see a guy, who has been working out for 8-10 years or more, and all of a sudden they put on like 20-30 pounds of sheer muscle mass, you can be sure that insulin is the culprit behind it. Insulin is extremely anabolic, but also problematic because it can lead to a coma in the worst possible circumstance, but it in many cases, it will lead to Hyperglycemia as a flood of too much insulin will lead to extreme insulin resistance.

Milos Sarcev fell into a brief coma after consuming too much insulin and having his blood sugar levels drop to a near fatal level. Its probably the worst hormone that someone can abuse.

Interesting as that all is, I fail to see how its related to HGH as I've yet to hear of a definitive case of HGH-inducted diabetes. There are cases where HGH is "suspected", among 5 or 6 other factors, but a definitive link is sketchy at best.

Quote:

Yes, I did. Passed it, too. Now, have you? Are you aware of what happens when orgams like th eliver get overloaded?


oh.....I'd say that I've completed a few biology courses in my day.....

Severe liver damage, from HGH abuse, has been noted only in the most of extreme cases, those that are usually accompanied by acromegaly and several other signs of HGH overuse.

A safe regimen of HGH, has not been linked to any of these side-effects however.


Quote:
And how old do you think pro and other athletes are?

They vary in age, but I can tell you that as guys get older, they naturally look for something to help them keep their edge, or at least restore their hormonal levels to optimum efficiency. If it helps to keep them healthier, and not just healthy for their sport, but healthy in general, how do you deny them that?

There are diseases for example, where one of the treatments used, is a course of HGH therapy. Are you going to tell a guy that because he plays a sport, he is better off remaining sick if he wants to continue to play? That is preposterous.


Quote:
No they won't, because there's nothing "natural" about injecting yourself with hormones.

That depends on your definition of the "natural", but the medical establishment and science would disagree with you. Especially in cases where individuals, due to cancer or some other factors, become extremely deficient in natural growth hormone levels, including IGF-1.

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What are the potential benefits of raising Human Growth Hormone levels?

Natural levels of hGH and IGF-1 decline progressively after young adulthood, leading to many of the bodily changes associated with aging. Raising hGH and IGF-1 levels to those associated with younger physiology slows down or delays the age related decline frequently seen in many organs.

Studies reliably demonstrate that the following are among the many beneficial effects of modulating hGH/IGF-1:

* Enhanced skin thickness and elasticity
* Improved healing time and reduced infection rates after trauma or surgery
* Diminished sun damage-type wrinkling
* Decreased total body fat
* Increased lean muscle mass
* Increased bone mineral density
* Improved cholesterol profile
* Decreased LDL (bad) cholesterol
* Increased HDL (good) cholesterol
* Improved exercise capacity
* Decreased recovery time between workouts
* Improved blood flow to the kidney
* Improved mood, coping skills, and over-all well-being
* Improved general energy levels

These effects do not occur over night, after the first several weeks of therapy, the first change that is typically noted is a feeling of enhanced well-being, with most of the compositional changes, such as fat loss or muscle or bone gain noted after 3 to 11 months of therapy.


Quote:
This is because you don't understand biochemistry. First of all, That man's body does not naturally produce the amount of hgh he has in his system after an injection, so stop talking about something being "natural" when it is not. Second of all, if that man is in his 30s/40s and is part of a pro league where his hgh gives him an unfair advantage over the competition...well, you don't get such things, so nevermind.

Biochemistry has nothing to do with this concept. You're trying to use big words to make yourself seem bright. This is a very simple concept that even a 4th grader could pick up one.

My guess is that you've never taken a biochemistry class and are flaunting what you picked up in some basic level biology course all while in pursuit of your liberal arts degree.

There are individuals who are simply hypogonadal for example, just like there are those who are hypoglycemic and require regular dosing of insulin to maintain their health, to stay alive even. By your logic, giving them insulin is "not natural", so we should just let them die and get it over with already.

You seem to think that you know what you are talking about, but what you mention is obvious stuff, and you do not make any points in general. I can tell right now that you've never taken a high level of biology, but hey, on the internet, everybody's a genius I guess.

The fairness issues are also a moot point when basically everyone is using these compounds. If you're holding on to the delusion that somehow there are upper-echelon older athletes not using GH, then you are a very disillusioned, as well as ignorant fellow.



Quote:
Unfortunately, Doctor, it is often used improperly.
Doesn't seem to me like you're any kind of expert, just some jerk that's probably doping himself and wants to justify his habit. Keep on playing with those needles.

I'm guessing that you talk out of your ass often.

Once again, so is alcohol. Judging by the obesity levels in America, food is abused quite often too. I guess we should start locking up all the wino's and the fatties then huh?

Read up, read up, its people like you that make me fear for the future of America. I never cease to be amazed at the general ignorance of people here, especially when it comes to science and medicine.


http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C13224.html

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Old 03-15-2007, 11:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
HGH isn't taken for strength boosts, as much as it is taken for improved health, recovery and injury prevention. Bodybuilders use it to increase muscle mass, but its strength-boosting effects are greatly exaggerated, the body saving effects are much more valuable.
So?
Quote:
What is this special emphasis that Americans have on athletes? Like these people are retarded or something. Steroids are legal in most other countries of the world and there is no giant abundance of "steroid
abusers." The only one I can think of was a German fellow named Munzer. If people decide to abuse these substances, then that is on them. The same way that people abuse alcohol at dangerous levels, not too long ago, there was a woman who died from consuming too much water.
You may not have noticed this, but we're on a sports forum, so of course I'm discussing athletes. And comparing steroid abuse to water intoxication is beyond retarded.
Quote:
Try as much as you want, you can't ban stupidity. That is no excuse to deny access to things that the vast majority of people would see benefit from, assuming safe and educated use.
You clearly don't understand the mentality of athletes here in America. The issue is not one of stupidity. These guys have been hearing that roids, HGH, etc., are dangerous for their entire lives and use them anyway. What's going on is that these athletes have decided that they're willing to risk their lives and health for the sake of an athletic advantage.

Quote:
Heavy insulin use. Bodybuilders love their insulin, especially the top guys, and if you see a guy, who has been working out for 8-10 years or more, and all of a sudden they put on like 20-30 pounds of sheer muscle mass, you can be sure that insulin is the culprit behind it. Insulin is extremely anabolic, but also problematic because it can lead to a coma in the worst possible circumstance, but it in many cases, it will lead to Hyperglycemia as a flood of too much insulin will lead to extreme insulin resistance.

Milos Sarcev fell into a brief coma after consuming too much insulin and having his blood sugar levels drop to a near fatal level. Its probably the worst hormone that someone can abuse.

Interesting as that all is, I fail to see how its related to HGH as I've yet to hear of a definitive case of HGH-inducted diabetes. There are cases where HGH is "suspected", among 5 or 6 other factors, but a definitive link is sketchy at best.
I'll take the word of the medical examiner over your little bit of analysis, if that's ok with you.

Quote:
oh.....I'd say that I've completed a few biology courses in my day.....
Did you actually pass them?

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Severe liver damage, from HGH abuse, has been noted only in the most of extreme cases, those that are usually accompanied by acromegaly and several other signs of HGH overuse.

A safe regimen of HGH, has not been linked to any of these side-effects however.
And, once again: "safe" use is not going to be assured.

Quote:
They vary in age, but I can tell you that as guys get older, they naturally look for something to help them keep their edge, or at least restore their hormonal levels to optimum efficiency. If it helps to keep them healthier, and not just healthy for their sport, but healthy in general, how do you deny them that?
I am not talking about what some 50 year-old man does so that he can please his wife, I'm talking about athletes, for the millionth time.

Quote:
Biochemistry has nothing to do with this concept. You're trying to use big words to make yourself seem bright. This is a very simple concept that even a 4th grader could pick up one.
Pardon me, Doc. I should have explained it more thoroughly. You don't get that as a man (or woman) ages it is, in fact, "natural" for them to produce less HGH, and when they introduce HGH into their body from an external source it can upset their internal chemistry.
Quote:
The fairness issues are also a moot point when basically everyone is using these compounds. If you're holding on to the delusion that somehow there are upper-echelon older athletes not using GH, then you are a very disillusioned, as well as ignorant fellow.
Who said that there aren't a lot of cheaters? I'm saying that it's something that needs to be gotten rid of. Please read more carefully, Doc.
Quote:
Once again, so is alcohol. Judging by the obesity levels in America, food is abused quite often too. I guess we should start locking up all the wino's and the fatties then huh?

Do you really not understand the difference between athletic competiton and drinking a beer? We can just stop talking now if that's the case.
Quote:
Read up, read up, its people like you that make me fear for the future of America. I never cease to be amazed at the general ignorance of people here, especially when it comes to science and medicine.
I. on the other hand, am quite glad that we don't have needle-pushers like yourself in positions of authority.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
So?

You may not have noticed this, but we're on a sports forum, so of course I'm discussing athletes. And comparing steroid abuse to water intoxication is beyond retarded.


Actually, the point was, that people will commit incredible acts of stupidity, no matter what means they have at their disposal. However, I guess simple things like that do go over your head..

Quote:


You clearly don't understand the mentality of athletes here in America. The issue is not one of stupidity. These guys have been hearing that roids, HGH, etc., are dangerous for their entire lives and use them anyway. What's going on is that these athletes have decided that they're willing to risk their lives and health for the sake of an athletic advantage.


That is their decision then. Are you their collective daddy? People take risks all the time. There are those who abuse painkillers, caffeine...etc. Look at ephedra, which is an extremely safe compound when used properly. However, you can't deny that Darwin will take over, so if people don't have the sense to use these things safely, one way or another, they will find a way to hurt themselves, no matter what you may ban.

Like I said before, shall we ban alcohol too? Lots of people abuse it, on a daily basis, far more than would ever abuse steroids or GH, I promise you, just go to a bar on a Saturday night.

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I'll take the word of the medical examiner over your little bit of analysis, if that's ok with you.

The problem is, his conclusion is lacking. You can't be sure in that mix which of the products led to the diabetes, but its quite easy to eliminate the HGH and steroids as insulin has been shown to be a prime cause of hyerglycemia.


Quote:

Did you actually pass them?


Not just that, I actually got a degree and a job too..........good stuff.

Quote:

And, once again: "safe" use is not going to be assured.

Is anything in life assured? And, once again, you are not the world's "collective daddy."

Quote:

I am not talking about what some 50 year-old man does so that he can please his wife, I'm talking about athletes, for the millionth time.

Same difference. There are beneficial effects to be attained, for a variety of purposes, for a variety of reasons, ranging from immune health, to mental condition to a variety of other things.

For example, it has been demonstrated that men that were previously dependent on Xanax and antidepressants, were able to recover, get off the medication, after a course of HGH and testosterone therapy.

Quote:

Pardon me, Doc. I should have explained it more thoroughly. You don't get that as a man (or woman) ages it is, in fact, "natural" for them to produce less HGH, and when they introduce HGH into their body from an external source it can upset their internal chemistry.

There is no evidence that it does anything of the sort. Giving testosterone to a 50 year old man, who produces 1/2 or less of what he did when he was 22, does absolutely nothing to upset his "internal chemistry" as you put it, and, except in the cases of someone with a present case of breast(male) or prostate cancer, it is utterly beneficial, especially in preventing depression, cardiovascular disease, fibromyalgia and several other afflictions that doctors have accepted as a sign of "getting old." All of this, can be avoided, with natural hormones, that your body produces on their own.

Quote:


Who said that there aren't a lot of cheaters? I'm saying that it's something that needs to be gotten rid of. Please read more carefully, Doc.

Let me guess, you want to ban guns because they kill people too right?
If you think that GH and steroids will be removed from sports, then you are even less intelligent then I was giving you credit for. This has been going on for decades. The chemists, guys like Patrick Arnold, will always be one step ahead of the testers, no matter what happens. There will always be the desire to excel, as long as there is huge money in sports, there will be a huge demand for performance enhancement, which means a huge demand for guys like Arnold to create the "perfect compound." The amount of potential compounds is limitless, its like a perpetual wack-a-mole game.

So, what I'm trying to say is, Good Luck Mr. Commissioner, you go boy!!

Quote:
Do you really not understand the difference between athletic competiton and drinking a beer? We can just stop talking now if that's the case.

Your main argument is that there is a "potential for abuse." I just simply pointed out that it is true with anything. As I've said, people abuse alcohol every day, develop cirrhosis, destroy their livers, and you are worried about the part of the population that uses HGH, which generally enhances overall health and wellbeing greatly, with the exception of the minor percentage of cases that abuse it.

Also, with HGH, the potential for abuse is simply not that viable. More is definitely not better, and just about anyone with basic understanding of human anatomy can understand and appreciate this. There is a limited rate of returns, once you go beyond a certain point, HGH will only lead to a variety of side-effects, a point that I've yet to hear of any athlete, with the exception of the bodybuilder types, reaching, because A. it is extremely difficult to do and B. Most athletes have a competent medical advisor giving them information on proper dosing and the consequences of overdosing, which have not been shown to benefit performance anymore, but rather hinder it.


Quote:
I. on the other hand, am quite glad that we don't have needle-pushers like yourself in positions of authority.


Once again, you make no sense. How am I a needle pusher? Because I feel that the government should stay out of people's business? I provide information to correct media lies and half-truths, things that uneducated people like yourself swallow up completely.


I'm sorry, but there are still those who wish to think freely, who don't want the Democrats or Republicans telling them what to think, what to do, when to do it, how to do it....etc.

Life as a virtual slave must be enjoyable for you, as they say, ignorance is bliss, but maybe one day you can open your mind, instead of just accepting all the garbage that gets shoved down your throat on a daily basis.

Last edited by PejaNowitzki : 03-15-2007 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:52 AM   #24
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

Didn't Milos admit to taking steroids? Or am I thinking of someone else?
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Old 03-16-2007, 09:22 AM   #25
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Default Re: OT: Evander Holyfield on the HGH scandal

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Originally Posted by reppy
Didn't Milos admit to taking steroids? Or am I thinking of someone else?


LOL, any top bodybuilder is taking steroids. I still laugh when I hear guys like Coleman say "No, I don't use steroids, its all the arginine in my NO Xplode that makes me HYOOOOGE!"


Milos though, is mainly known as an insulin pusher. He is considered the mastermind at what I think is an extremely dangerous hormone to play with. He supposedly knows better than anyone else what he is doing, and he still damn near wound up in a coma for abusing insulin. Its an extremely stupid thing to do and I would never recommend anyone other than a hypoglycemic to fool around with it.
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