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Old 06-06-2014, 05:52 PM   #1
el gringos
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Default Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

I went through all 6

1: Carmelo
2: jr
3: bargnani
4: chandler
5: shumpert
6: Hardaway

Last edited by el gringos : 06-06-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

No one has showed the natural gifts for the triangle offense. It takes a decent basketball IQ, vision, anticipation, passing ability.

Hopefully the roster can learn and improve the necessary skills. Or Jax will have to turn over the roster significantly.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

To be honest, the only player to likely fit the triangle would be JR.

He seems to go well with whatever the team is running, and he does have the skillset to be able to do it....the question is whether he can learn it.

Melo possibly could be successful if he buys in the system.

But really I see no others.

Bargnani never passes, neither does Hardaway, Shumpert passing is shaky and his shooting is more than suspect.
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

I gave prob way too credit to shumpert for his ability to defend multiple spots


Chandler is so hard to rate because he is such a negative on team offense


Carmelo is tailor made for the triangle. IMO you guys are thinking he is what you've seen under Woodson. Watching so much more of his career helps me see that he is a very talented passer- if there was any kind of action that leads to a pass. Sure in wood sons everybody's standing around and start from the perimeter.


Going back to nene and Carmelo you would see some of the best interior passing


I'm sure all of our ideas of what the triangle is are slightly different but my understanding of it involves Carmelo starting from different places than with the ball from the perimeter. And movement by the weak side while having an option or two from the triangle.


I just think that Carmelo, bargnani, and jr will all show more than many think they have in this system. In an ideal world you need a big who can move and catch and finish but yet still is a versatile defender able to cover 4's or 5's. Bargnani is a good 1on 1 post defender. Every bit as good as chandler. But even I can recognize that he is a terrible help/team defender. Nene is the perfect fit. I am not advocating for sanders because I think he's perfect, but because I think he could be dumped for an expirer like amare.


Then I'd like to hear you guys version of why or why not a traditional pg is needed in the triangle. I think it's because the entry pass and the ability to hold a defender because of the threat of a shot is way more valuable than the ability to break a defense down off the dribble or the pick and role. I think there was a desire for Phil to get Kirk hinrich the whole time he was in la. Hinrich May no longer be the perfect triangle pg just because of possible decline in athleticism defensively. But he might still be the perfect guy to start while hopefully this years draft pick nick Johnson develops and jimmer could learn from as well
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

This is how I would rank your 6 plus 1 in the triangle but after the first 3 I probably would want to swap them out with more competent players.

1: Odom
2: Carmelo
3: Hardaway
4: JR
5: Bargs
6: Shump
7: Chandler

The Triangle is about spacing, 2 cutters, 2 screens basic formation. Ideally at least 2 passes before a shot. The problem is having guys that can win the 1 on 1 match ups and hit open shots to avoid the double team. The problem is people going to the proper spots and the ability to pass timely. None of these attributes has been exhibited by the Knicks players.

Typically the triangle doesnt require a traditional PG if you have players that can handle the rock and can execute passes. This is why Odom, Gasol, Fisher, Kobe even Bynum were successful. Bynum wasnt required to pass that often because he could dominate or finish in his 1 on 1 match up regardless of where he was on the floor.

Melo is not taylormade for the triangle because he stops the ball to see what is happening around him which allows the defense to set up. If the right players are round Melo he will have more 1 on 1 opportunities.

I wont speak about Bargs well because the guy is just another overpaid role player guy. The guy is too inconsistent like JR to be counted on for anything other than being well INCONSISTENT. Guys that disappear cant be counted on or respected. If you look back I wanted the guy to be successful here and revitalize his crappy career I wanted to see the Bargs from about 3 years ago show up here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
I gave prob way too credit to shumpert for his ability to defend multiple spots


Chandler is so hard to rate because he is such a negative on team offense


Carmelo is tailor made for the triangle. IMO you guys are thinking he is what you've seen under Woodson. Watching so much more of his career helps me see that he is a very talented passer- if there was any kind of action that leads to a pass. Sure in wood sons everybody's standing around and start from the perimeter.


Going back to nene and Carmelo you would see some of the best interior passing


I'm sure all of our ideas of what the triangle is are slightly different but my understanding of it involves Carmelo starting from different places than with the ball from the perimeter. And movement by the weak side while having an option or two from the triangle.


I just think that Carmelo, bargnani, and jr will all show more than many think they have in this system. In an ideal world you need a big who can move and catch and finish but yet still is a versatile defender able to cover 4's or 5's. Bargnani is a good 1on 1 post defender. Every bit as good as chandler. But even I can recognize that he is a terrible help/team defender. Nene is the perfect fit. I am not advocating for sanders because I think he's perfect, but because I think he could be dumped for an expirer like amare.


Then I'd like to hear you guys version of why or why not a traditional pg is needed in the triangle. I think it's because the entry pass and the ability to hold a defender because of the threat of a shot is way more valuable than the ability to break a defense down off the dribble or the pick and role. I think there was a desire for Phil to get Kirk hinrich the whole time he was in la. Hinrich May no longer be the perfect triangle pg just because of possible decline in athleticism defensively. But he might still be the perfect guy to start while hopefully this years draft pick nick Johnson develops and jimmer could learn from as well

Last edited by Rameek : 06-08-2014 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
This is how I would rank your 6 plus 1 in the triangle but after the first 3 I probably would want to swap them out with more competent players.

1: Odom
2: Carmelo
3: Hardaway
4: JR
5: Bargs
6: Shump
7: Chandler

The Triangle is about spacing, 2 cutters, 2 screens basic formation. Ideally at least 2 passes before a shot. The problem is having guys that can win the 1 on 1 match ups and hit open shots to avoid the double team. The problem is people going to the proper spots and the ability to pass timely. None of these attributes has been exhibited by the Knicks players.

Typically the triangle doesnt require a traditional PG if you have players that can handle the rock and can execute passes. This is why Odom, Gasol, Fisher, Kobe even Bynum were successful. Bynum wasnt required to pass that often because he could dominate or finish in his 1 on 1 match up regardless of where he was on the floor.

Melo is not taylormade for the triangle because he stops the ball to see what is happening around him which allows the defense to set up. If the right players are round Melo he will have more 1 on 1 opportunities.

I wont speak about Bargs well because the guy is just another overpaid role player guy. The guy is too inconsistent like JR to be counted on for anything other than being well INCONSISTENT. Guys that disappear cant be counted on or respected. If you look back I wanted the guy to be successful here and revitalize his crappy career I wanted to see the Bargs from about 3 years ago show up here.

It would be great if odom could be a rotation player on this team. His life would have had to change a lot from where he was at.



I'm glad you didn't put much stock into defense either.



The hardaway ranking- I'm trying to see where you might be coming from other than really low thoughts of all the other players. Is it more of a compliment to thj or a shot at the others?



I could see the cutting aspect. Thj prob showed the most as a cutter and ranks very high there. Hopefully an aspect they could get jr way more involved and shumpert has the ability to get better there
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Best 3 players on the team for the Triangle

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
It would be great if odom could be a rotation player on this team. His life would have had to change a lot from where he was at.

I'm glad you didn't put much stock into defense either.

The hardaway ranking- I'm trying to see where you might be coming from other than really low thoughts of all the other players. Is it more of a compliment to thj or a shot at the others?

I could see the cutting aspect. Thj prob showed the most as a cutter and ranks very high there. Hopefully an aspect they could get jr way more involved and shumpert has the ability to get better there

The thread speaks to who are the best 3 players and I followed along your system of ranking based on the Triangle Offense not the Triangle Defense I crack myself up sometimes... Triangle Defense Taylormade (golf reference) I digress....

I ranked Hardaway Jr high because he is still clay. He can be molded and he is an offensive based player that has a father who is involved in his development and growth as an NBA player. Timmie hasnt been tainted by this Knicks organization yet and only had to tolerate Woody for 1 season and he was given minutes to play. He also is a willing defender.

No one knows what will happen to Odom but based on your thread he should be number 1 because he has been and won championships in this system and he is in the Knicks building.

Shumpert has a lot to prove but unless something changes or improves this guy is a younger Thabo. His role will be defined as such until further notice in my book.

Jr. is as talented and gifted a player in the top quarter of the league but he is a mental midget that has not shown the propensity to get his stuff together to ever fulfill his potential.

Chandler isnt an offensive player but he can pass the ball. He will not take advantage consistently of his 1 on 1 match up from the base offense but the pic n roll triangle maybe...

Bargs always hurt and just disappears too often just cant trust that guy. He is a volume scorer as well so he will always be hit and miss. Basically a 25 minute guy if he decides to play defense or if he is hot offensively.

HONESTLY, I would say Stat would be number 3 because I think he has the ability to go ham. Health and trying MAINTENANCE his health is the issue.

1: Odom
2: Carmelo
3: Stat
4: Hardaway
5: JR.
6: Bargs
7: Shump
8: Chandler
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