New Rivalry: Kobe vs. the 1st Round

[hwliuLAP]

Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX

Then care to explain how he is not a swingman?

Kobe only plays the SG position.......
Forwards on the Lakers are Odom and Luke, Even used to come off the bench
but just because the size of Kobe, and sometimes he may match up with a SF on D
does not make him a forward.
he still does more shooting and controlling the ball

[XxNeXuSxX]

Originally Posted by hwliuLAP

Kobe only plays the SG position.......
Forwards on the Lakers are Odom and Luke, Even used to come off the bench
but just because the size of Kobe, and sometimes he may match up with a SF on D
does not make him a forward.
he still does more shooting and controlling the ball

Ah okay, thanks for the response.

The interpretation I've believed that a swingman was just a player that could had the skills of a 2 and a 3 on the court. So that means, most perimeter of today are naturally swingmen: PP, Tmac, Kobe, etc. While I think of pure SG's more like players of Ray Allen and Reggie Miller caliber.

Edit: hey look I found something on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swingman

some of the most famous players in the NBA today are natural swingmen, including All-Stars Tracy McGrady of the Houston Rockets, Vince Carter of the New Jersey Nets, Grant Hill of the Orlando Magic, Paul Pierce of the Boston Celtics, Peja Stojakovic of the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets, Josh Howard of the Dallas Mavericks, Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers, and Michael Redd of the Milwaukee Bucks.

[hwliuLAP]

weird
I know Jordan was considered a swingman
but Bryant only plays the SG position as far as I know
I suppose he may do some of the things that a SF does too
but there's always two other forward playing while Bryant is on the court I think

Also TMac altho by length and ability should be a swingman
but by the way the team actually having their 5 man roster on the court
he should be playing the SG position

Note: according to nba.com, Kobe is only a guard, while some are considered as guard-foward

[Knoe Itawl]

Originally Posted by Batchoy

Sorry, if you don't agree with it, but sometimes the truth hurts. If you get angry you won't learn anything.

Come on, you know the age old Bryant fanatic tactic on this board is to attack the messenger rather than the message.

Most have little to no debate skills so instead of point by point debating the reasons why your theories may be flawed, they find it much easier to just call the person names, etc.

That's the intellectually challenged way to debate.

[Cafca]

Come on, you know the age old Bryant fanatic tactic on this board is to attack the messenger rather than the message.

The messenger is creating the message in this case. If the messenger submitted a message from someone else, then there would be no reason to attack or disagree with the messenger.

[haterofhaters]

Originally Posted by Cafca

The messenger is creating the message in this case. If the messenger submitted a message from someone else, then there would be no reason to attack or disagree with the messenger.

To break this analysis down: They know you've made a good point but whether or not that's the case, they automatically are gonna attack you because they know you make anti-kobe threads on the regular.

[MTing]

OK man we get it you hate Kobe

[El Barto]

Will the Lakers get past the 1st round this year, or is a Kobe led team the new Minnesota Timberwolves? Remember, we were told the Lakers are a title contending team earlier this year. We were told by the preseason chants that Kobe is the MVP.

Looking at facts they were a top five team in the league. They had one of the best records at that time and were playing good basketball. The triangle offense was working well. Some analysts attributed this to Kobe Bryant and so did some fans, so naturally they expected the team leader of this top 5 team to be at least an MVP candidate. And you keep digressing in months...and its too bad Kobe never played in the preseason because of his surgery, so I'm not entirely sure where these chants were coming from. His first real game was the Lakers 4th game of the season since the game 7 vs. the Suns.

Let's examine the facts.

Then examine the facts without adding your own interpretations. Let the facts speak for themselves.

Year 1: Lakers miss the playoffs with a talented squad of Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. Kobe led this team to a 2-19 finish to forfeit their playoff seed. How does this compare to superior swingmen around the league? Rewind, and you'll notice rookie Dwyane Wade not only took Caron and Lamar to the playoffs, he took them in the second round. Let me repeat, ROOKIE Dwyane Wade.

Bryant and Odom were injured for much of the last three or so weeks of that season. They already had a horrible team, but then you lose those two guys and then its down the gutter. I know injuries are a part of the game but to you it seems that interpretation excludes the Lakers. Forgive every team if they miss the playoffs because of injuries but screw the Lakers if they miss or get swept in the playoffs because of injuries. And then you add in your demeaning undertone, which you already know will add fuel to the fire and open the door to people calling you names. You instigated this and then you sit back like a victim and wonder why Kobe and Laker fans think you're dumb or something, since all you appear to be posting is facts.

Dwayne Wade and the rest of the Heat played the Hornets in the first round that year. If I recall correctly, the Hornets had Baron Davis, Jamal Magloire, and PJ Brown on that team (I think Mashburn was still injured or had been traded by then). Not that that proves anything. I guess the Heat were just faster and more athletic than them overall, didn't it go to seven games? They then played the Pacers who had the NBA's best record then. THey played thier "high octane" offense and won two games.

What I don't get is that you constantly say the Lakers won 3 games against the Suns but say Bryant lost 4 all on his own. Is it the reverse for you when it comes to Wade? Wade won 4 games against the Hornets and lost three. Then won 2 against the Pacers and lost 4...Where is the logic? Where are the unbiased facts?

Year 2:

I won't quote the whole thing...

Like I said above, the team won 3 games but Kobe lost four all on his own? He may be the one to blame for game 7, but three others all on his lonesome? James was incredible in the playoffs. But the Pistons didn't just embarass Kobe in the finals of 2004. They embarassed the Lakers. Whats your point? Are you going to write one of these for each member of that team...including Shaq, Malone, and Payton?

http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2005/n...als_stats.html This will show you that Wade's FG% was .468. I think you got FT confused with FG.

But I thought Shaq, according to some fans on here, never even got the ball in the finals of '04. So how was he ever dunking on the whole city of Detroit?

And yes, Kobe shot pretty bad in that finals. And you're right, it is around 30%. Wierd how also he averaged 4.4 assists, along with Gary Payton. The best in that series was Luke Walton at 4.5.

We are being told that Kobe is the greatest scorer ever

And what if he is? You are witnessing something great and you're turning a blind eye because of your devotion to hating him for whatever reason. I wouldn't say the greatest, though, but up there with the greatest.

and how Kobe is second to none in GOAT status.

I think you misinterpreted this, too. The ones I've seen on here saying this are fanatics and people claiming he isn't the GOAT without citing anyone who has said it...it seems more like its either fanatical people or insecure people like yourself who just hate him for whatever reason.

If the playoffs were to start today, the Lakers would be playing the Spurs. Can Kobe "I can make every shot when I want to" Bryant shoot a decent percentage against the Spurs? I said decent, not Dwyane Wade-like...that is another level, a level that Kobe can't reach.

In Kobe's playoff career he has shot:
05-06: 49%
03-04: 41%
02-03: 43%
01-02: 43%
00-01: 46.9%
99-00: 44%
98-99: 43%
97-98: 40.8%
96-97: 38%
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_b...eer_stats.html

Here are Dwayne Wade's:
05-06: 49%
04-05: 48%
03-04: 45%
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane...eer_stats.html

Yes, very impressive, and at a younger age. But its not Kobe hasn't reached those same FG%.

For someone who is now labeled the greatest scorer in NBA History, Kobe has never had a season where he has shot above 47%. Both King James and Finals MVP Wade already had two seasons shooting at 47%+, and they did it in 6 less years.

Can't argue with those...but for someone who, to you, doesn't shoot well...and he's had so much success (playing with Shaq)...what's your point?

But nevermind that. Can Kobe lead his team past the first round? Or will he quit on his team again this year?

What about Tracey McGrady? Do you give everyone with the same problem of getting out of the first round this same treatment? Kobe has met one first round loss. How many has McGrady? What about some players who rarely make the playoffs? Do you make threads about them and bash the heck out of them?

No wonder why Kobe fans are the most irrational in sports history, they fear the future...the future that exposes their delusionality. They can't wait it out, and have Kobe prove anything. They'd rather live in their own world of false perceptions, where Kobe is the greatest because he's Kobe. Lakers' possible playoff opponents this year are: Mavs, Suns, Spurs, Jazz. And the reality of it is, they have absolutely no chance against these teams in a 7 game series. Groupiies, get your talk on while you can. Reality never fails to show up and prove all of you as top notched idiots who constantly get fooled because you are the fools.

Again, you wanted to talk about facts but you post your biased opinion anyway. These aren't facts because they haven't happened yet, or won't happen.

What teams this year don't have injury problems? Invalid argument.

And, here we go with the inury situation again. It seems to only work for every team but the Lakers. If the Spurs miss the playoffs because of injury, well...thats why...because of injury. But if the Lakers miss it or are swept out of the first round, its not because of injury, its because they didn't adapt right? Do you see your hyprocrisy? Do you see YOUR delusionality?

No, none of you can call me for copying and pasting the whole thing, because I didn't.

[Cafca]

To break this analysis down: They know you've made a good point but whether or not that's the case, they automatically are gonna attack you because they know you make anti-kobe threads on the regular.

That and...

You can't type something up, no matter what it is, then say "hey, don't attack me, attack what I wrote". It makes you at fault for nothing and allows you to not accept whatever insults come your way. It makes no sense.

[gts]

nice post el barto, well done, and informative...

[JSub]

Why did AAP get banned? I thought his post was very coherent, although quite biased.

[AKA AAP]

4th Quarter Summary
TIME LOS ANGELES SCORE PHOENIX
12:00 Start of the 4th Quarter
11:47 77-74 Amare Stoudemire misses 19-foot jumper
11:45 Lamar Odom defensive rebound 77-74
11:33 Smush Parker bad pass (Amare Stoudemire steals) 77-74
11:19 77-74 Boris Diaw turnover
11:00 Kobe Bryant misses 20-foot jumper 77-74
10:57 77-74 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound
10:55 77-76 Leandro Barbosa makes layup
10:55 Smush Parker shooting foul (Leandro Barbosa draws the foul) 77-76
10:55 77-77 Leandro Barbosa makes free throw 1 of 1
10:41 Maurice Evans misses 13-foot jumper 77-77
10:38 77-77 Shawn Marion defensive rebound
10:29 77-79 Leandro Barbosa makes driving layup
10:22 Los Angeles full timeout
10:22 Sasha Vujacic enters the game for Lamar Odom 77-79
10:22 Brian Cook enters the game for Smush Parker 77-79
10:08 Kobe Bryant misses 18-foot jumper 77-79
10:07 77-79 Shawn Marion defensive rebound
9:48 77-79 Leandro Barbosa misses 9-foot jumper
9:47 Andrew Bynum defensive rebound 77-79
9:38 Andrew Bynum makes dunk (Kobe Bryant assists) 79-79
9:21 79-81 Leandro Barbosa makes two point shot (Boris Diaw assists)
9:02 Kobe Bryant misses layup 79-81
9:00 79-81 Leandro Barbosa defensive rebound
8:56 Brian Cook shooting foul (Shawn Marion draws the foul) 79-81
8:56 79-81 Steve Nash enters the game for Raja Bell
8:56 79-81 Shawn Marion misses free throw 1 of 2
8:56 79-81 Phoenix offensive rebound
8:56 79-82 Shawn Marion makes free throw 2 of 2
8:47 79-82 Amare Stoudemire shooting foul (Kobe Bryant draws the foul)
8:47 Kobe Bryant makes free throw 1 of 2 80-82
8:47 Kobe Bryant makes free throw 2 of 2 81-82
8:34 81-82 Steve Nash misses 18-foot jumper
8:33 Sasha Vujacic defensive rebound 81-82
8:17 Maurice Evans misses 25-foot three point jumper 81-82
8:14 81-82 Shawn Marion defensive rebound
8:06 Brian Cook personal foul (Boris Diaw draws the foul) 81-82
7:56 Kobe Bryant shooting foul (Amare Stoudemire draws the foul) 81-82
7:56 81-83 Amare Stoudemire makes free throw 1 of 2
7:56 Lamar Odom enters the game for Brian Cook 81-83
7:56 81-83 Amare Stoudemire misses free throw 2 of 2
7:56 Lamar Odom defensive rebound 81-83
7:41 Kobe Bryant misses 13-foot two point shot 81-83
7:39 81-83 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound
7:37 81-85 Shawn Marion makes layup (Steve Nash assists)
7:37 Sasha Vujacic shooting foul (Shawn Marion draws the foul) 81-85
7:37 81-85 Raja Bell enters the game for Amare Stoudemire
7:37 Jordan Farmar enters the game for Kobe Bryant 81-85
7:37 Kwame Brown enters the game for Andrew Bynum 81-85
7:37 81-86 Shawn Marion makes free throw 1 of 1
7:15 Sasha Vujacic misses 26-foot three point jumper 81-86
7:13 Los Angeles defensive rebound 81-86
7:00 81-86 Shawn Marion misses 27-foot three point jumper
6:58 Lamar Odom defensive rebound 81-86
6:35 Jordan Farmar misses 25-foot three point jumper 81-86
6:33 Sasha Vujacic offensive rebound 81-86
6:31 Sasha Vujacic bad pass (Shawn Marion steals) 81-86
6:26 81-86 Leandro Barbosa misses 13-foot jumper
6:26 81-86 Phoenix offensive rebound
6:26 Kwame Brown loose ball foul (Boris Diaw draws the foul) 81-86
6:26 81-86 Boris Diaw misses free throw 1 of 2
6:26 81-86 Phoenix offensive rebound
6:26 81-87 Boris Diaw makes free throw 2 of 2
6:13 Lamar Odom makes driving layup 83-87
5:56 83-87 Boris Diaw misses 18-foot jumper
5:54 Lamar Odom defensive rebound 83-87
5:35 Maurice Evans misses 24-foot three point jumper 83-87
5:33 83-87 Shawn Marion defensive rebound
5:20 83-87 Steve Nash misses 25-foot three point jumper
5:18 Maurice Evans defensive rebound 83-87
5:05 83-87 Boris Diaw personal foul (Kwame Brown draws the foul)
5:05 83-87 Official timeout
5:05 83-87 Amare Stoudemire enters the game for Boris Diaw
5:05 Luke Walton enters the game for Maurice Evans 83-87
5:05 Kobe Bryant enters the game for Sasha Vujacic 83-87
4:54 Shawn Marion blocks Lamar Odom's 13-foot jumper 83-87
4:52 Lamar Odom misses 7-foot jumper 83-87
4:52 Lamar Odom offensive rebound 83-87
4:50 83-87 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound
4:43 83-87 Leandro Barbosa misses 17-foot jumper
4:41 83-87 Shawn Marion offensive rebound
4:31 83-87 Leandro Barbosa misses layup
4:31 Kwame Brown defensive rebound 83-87
4:16 Lamar Odom lost ball (Leandro Barbosa steals) 83-87
4:11 83-89 Leandro Barbosa makes layup (Shawn Marion assists)
3:48 Kobe Bryant misses 30-foot three point jumper 83-89
3:46 83-89 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound
3:31 83-91 Amare Stoudemire makes dunk (Leandro Barbosa assists)
3:08 Kobe Bryant misses 8-foot jumper 83-91
3:05 83-91 Shawn Marion defensive rebound
2:43 83-91 Leandro Barbosa misses 28-foot three point jumper
2:41 Lamar Odom defensive rebound 83-91
2:27 Luke Walton makes layup 85-91
2:25 Phoenix full timeout
2:25 Sasha Vujacic enters the game for Luke Walton 85-91
2:12 85-91 Amare Stoudemire misses 18-foot jumper
2:10 Lamar Odom defensive rebound 85-91
1:51 Kobe Bryant misses 17-foot two point shot 85-91
1:47 Kwame Brown offensive rebound 85-91
1:42 Kobe Bryant makes 9-foot two point shot 87-91
1:29 87-93 Amare Stoudemire makes 8-foot jumper (Steve Nash assists)
1:13 Kobe Bryant misses 17-foot two point shot 87-93
1:08 87-93 Raja Bell defensive rebound
0:49 87-93 Leandro Barbosa misses 13-foot running jumper
0:48 87-93 Phoenix defensive rebound
0:48 Luke Walton enters the game for Sasha Vujacic 87-93
0:36 Kobe Bryant misses 27-foot three point jumper 87-93
0:34 87-93 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound
0:33 Kwame Brown personal foul (Steve Nash draws the foul) 87-93
0:33 87-94 Steve Nash makes free throw 1 of 2
0:33 87-95 Steve Nash makes free throw 2 of 2
0:33 Los Angeles full timeout
0:22 Lamar Odom misses 13-foot jumper 87-95
0:20 87-95 Shawn Marion defensive rebound
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game

This is hilarious. Kobe only scores when it doesn't matter. Even in his entire career, this has happened too often. Here are some facts: Kobe is a career mid-30's shooter during the last five minutes of a close game. And Kobe has also shot a disgusting 21.4% in game winners.

I loved the ball movement and teamwork of the Lakers when Lamar Odom is the main facilitator. When he has the ball, every single one of his teammates knows what to do. The team becomes one cohesive unit ready to win games. Odom is clearly one of the most talented players in the league, and Luke Walton and Ronny Turiaf would make great additions to any team in the NBA. It's just a shame that their value is ruined just because they're a Laker.

Only reason why the Lakers were close thoughout the game is simple. Suns missed a lot of open shots, they gave too much false hope for this joke of a playoff team. Suns win in 4 or 5.

[crisoner]

Shut the f*ck up jUsTin

Get a life

[VCDrivesAPorscheToWork]

Originally Posted by Howard5Dirk41

If everyone just ignores this thread then he will stop posting this garbage.

the idiot needs to pick on the retard to boost his own rep.

[XxNeXuSxX]

As you said from 'groooopie' #1-557 "allaroundclooooooooooowwwwwwwwnnnn"


Although you're right, Kobe really choked in the fourth tonight. Chalk one up on the anti-clutch log.