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Old 08-20-2014, 07:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

I'd like to adress some of this as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
So I guess this is a bad time to remind you that LeBron and D Wade lost weight as well?

No one is complaining about his weight loss, from what I'm reading some think it could be positive, one is merely questioning how it relates to leadership and why take this stance so late in his career.

But in my opinion, as I said before....he has a clean slate, but we'll see if it matter. Personally to me it doesnt, but we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I don't know. I just see things differently. I'm about people holding themselves accountable. If a guy sucks, I'm not about to say "hey the max player on the team isn't a leader. He should be "making everyone better." I'm going to say "dude...you suck." I know I'm in the minority in that mindset but I think you get paid big bucks to be a big time player.

Based on this portion I'd gather you relate a persons performance by their pay.....feel free to correct me if wrong.

The only players being paid big time bucks was Amare and Melo. I noticed you complained earlier about Felton, do you consider his salary of under 4 mil each season "big time bucks"? Thats below average for a starting point guard, and Felton was below average for a starting point guard, and shouldnt have been one at that point in his career. You get what you pay for.

But he also has had some measure of success. The team during the 54 win season looks totally out of synce without Felton as nobody could run the point at all and the record in his absence shows this.

Even with Tyson, his salary is pretty much what good centers would get, and regardless of opinion Tyson is viewed as a good center and he has the accolades in his current contract to prove so. DPOY, Allstar appearances which was a coaches pick, 1st team NBA defense.....all achieved undeer his current contract, never achieved prior to.

Has he played up to how he is viewed? No always and not enough imo, but now that he is gone I wouldnt be surprised if he does play better in Dallas, even Felton. Carlisle seems to have that effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I personally think leadership in the NBA is overblown and a cop out to role players who don't aggressively work on their games in the offseason. These are grown men. They get checks as well. I can't speak for you, but I don't even make the league minimum at my job. Nobody should have to get on you for you to do what you get paid for.

There is a reason why they are called role players, and to assert that players no matter what their skills are dont work on their games is being really distasteful. The ones who dont usually arent in the league very long.

It really seems you want the role player to CARRY the top paid players, but that isnt their job. They are a support.

Think of it like a house. Melo would be the foundation....safe to say if something goes wrong with him the house is in great danger. Role players are studs holding walls, beams, bricks, roofing...things that arent gonna destroy the house itself if 1) maintained properly 2) addressed when repair/replace is needed. bottom line no matter what support a team has if it's best players providing the foundation the team wont prosper.

Last year imo every single player has their hand on that awful season, nobody "shined", they all stunk based on their individual capabilities.

As far as leaders go, your highest paid players SHOULD be leaders and to not hold them accountable to that standard really makes no sense at all. Melo by this report seems to embrace that role now, so apprently he agrees as well that he SHOULD be a leader of the team. never too late imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
As for his 4th quarter efficiency, it needs to improve. BUT....let's not act like Mike Woodson ever hand any competent offensive gameplanning late in games. Every time it was "here Melo....dribble the clock down and go one on 4." Before Mike Woodson, Melo NEVER had any issues making clutch baskets. Agreed?
He needs to improve in the clutch and in late game situations....I'm sure we all agree there.

Melo has actually made clutch buckets under Woodson as well and he has accomplished things with Woodson he never did before...such as his scoring title and being second in MVP voting during the 54 win season, so even though issues may have come up, good things also did as well.

I'm sure Woodson has no issue taking some credit and some blame in those areas as he certainly affected all of those outcomes.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

The absence of leadership leads to statements like this

I have so much anger right now I cant put it in words.


Quote:
J.R. Smith, with no hint of sarcasm, aims to ‘be a leader’

J.R. Smith the leader? No, he’s serious.

The enigmatic Knicks shooting guard said in an interview with ESPN New York he wants to “be a leader” this year, to show his younger teammates the way to be a professional on the court and off. He did not mention marijuana or Rihanna.

“Just ‘show instead of say’ and stuff like that,” said Smith, who is entering his 11th NBA season. “‘Sheed [Rasheed Wallace], J Kidd [Jason Kidd] — those guys led by example and that’s what I’m going to try to do.”

Whether Smith is up to the task is certainly up for debate. He was suspended five games at the beginning of last season for violating the terms of the NBA’s anti-drug program and fined $5,000 by the NBA for “recurring instances of unsportsmanlike conduct” following his repeated stunt of untying opponents’ shoelaces at the free throw line.

Smith, who had offseason knee surgery last year that hampered him early in the season, expects a far better season for himself and the Knicks. He’s on board with Carmelo Anthony’s prediction that the Knicks will reach the playoffs after missing out this past season.

“Absolutely. We should be,” Smith said. “We should have been one last year. This year, definitely.”
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

1. As I said before, this isn't the first time he's lost weight.

2. No I don't relate a player's performance to their pay but I do expect a smart GM to ensure those things are congruent. Additionally, until this year, I never complained about Felton much. There's documented proof that my stance on Felton has always been that, while I don't like him much, he's a middle of the road PG making middle of the road money. My issue with Felton is when he began playing WORSE than even that. I can tolerate you not being that good. I can't tolerate you progressively getting worse.

3. I've said time and time again I could care less about what accolades Chandler gets. My stance will ALWAYS be that he's undeserving of DPOY and any allstar nods. He's garbage. He's arguably the most overrated player in the NBA and everything I predicted would eventually happen to him as a Knick came true. Beyond Chandler being garbage, he doesn't improve; which is infuriating.

4. I never said role players don't work on their game. That's ridiculous. I complained that OUR role players don't improve from summer to summer. Iman Shumpert has. His jumpshot mechanics; particularly his form, has shown improvement. I haven't seen the same out of a lot of our other guys.

5. I do think there is a lack of leadership in our locker room but I don't agree that it's on the highest paid guy to hold everyone else accountable. Guys should be holding themselves accountable. Be a professional. I mean seriously. You get paid to play basketball. PAID TO PLAY BASKETBALL! It's a huge pet peeve for me. Everyone can't be a star player but everyone try to maximize their own talent (injuries permitting). You shouldn't have to have another player tell you that. This is why I support Phil in the acquisition of guys like Quincy Acy.

Last edited by franchize : 08-22-2014 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

I guess I just come from a different era.....your BEST players were the leaders and there was rarely any doubt of such. Now stars can just get theirs, think they did their job and thats all required. Utter nonsense. If Melo is true to these words, then he truly "gets it".

Felton was in a situation I hope I never face. A pending divorce from his wife of 1 year, and she ratted him out to the police on a gun charge that common folks serve years in jail for. The fact he could actually suit up and play he actually has my respect even more even though he certainly played terrible. Normal folks would likely get fired with a pending gun charge

Not even sure what role players were expected to work on their games....most of our role players have been on 1 year contracts and the others were up in age. We didnt even have a drafted player other than Shumpert as they were traded, so there was no one TO develop as the Knicks basically had traded all of their picks. Role players are what they are...they serve roles. Even Tyson was a role player, in which stars of the teams he has played for love the guy such as Chris Paul and Dirk and his coaches as well. As far as his accomplishments whether he desrve them or not, the same panels and coaches who could have given it to anyone gave it to him, and he recieved them as a Knick which is alright with me.

Could he have played better? Absolutely, but so could every other member of the Knicks and apprently even Melo recognizes this....as he should.
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

Franchize I cant believe what you're saying. Its the most puzzling thing in the world.

Every team especially winning teams have franchise players and they are the leaders of the team.

For you to say professional athletes lead themselves and develop themselves is far from FACTS!.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:04 AM   #21
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
The absence of leadership leads to statements like this

I have so much anger right now I cant put it in words.
You are way too emotional to be unbiased. The thought of JR, bargnani, or Carmelo gets you so fired up that you get all over the place.
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:39 PM   #22
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
You are way too emotional to be unbiased. The thought of JR, bargnani, or Carmelo gets you so fired up that you get all over the place.
Not sure you know what biased means....


If Melo was a leader then this fool wouldnt be talking this nonsense. When Stat was healthy he showed leadership, when Chandler tried to be a leader they shut him down.

If this is Melo's team as the franchise player he should step up.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:59 PM   #23
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

The leader of this "new" group is Fisher. Melo is the leader on the floor. I do wish some of you would discard any notions of what happened last year, as we are in a new direction. Last year nobody wanted the reigns as the group was divided as hell, no thanks to Chandler, Felton, Woody, J.R. and Melo either not trying or not knowing what to do. Sure, there will probably be a slight hangover at first. But I don't think Phil will suffer fools lightly.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Not sure you know what biased means....


If Melo was a leader then this fool wouldnt be talking this nonsense. When Stat was healthy he showed leadership, when Chandler tried to be a leader they shut him down.

If this is Melo's team as the franchise player he should step up.
Amare was a leader? You mean the same guy who dropped a documentary about himself on the eve of a playoff series in which he was missing for yet another injury? You mean the guy who took a self imposed day of rest during during a playoff run despite being cleared by team doctors? You mean the guy who's preached continuously about being back to Allstar level rather than what the Knicks as a team will accomplish? Oh him.

You're saying "NOW he wants to do all this" basically insinuating he hasn't done it before. However, this is not the first time he's lost weight in the offseason. Not the first time he's bonded with his team in PR at his charity event. Not his first time he's had private workouts in the offseason with JR, Shumpert and others. So is he really not at all a leader or is he not a guy who throws his "leadership" in the medias face all the time? I'm not impressed by rah rah guys who appear to be leaders on TV but then don't live up to expectations their damn selves. I'll take quiet production over a vocal underachiever any day of the week.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

I did say when healthy... Weight loss means jack crap IMHO. I dont care about it obviously you keep harping on that. Getting in the best shape and losing weight are 2 different things.

Well you can take that quiet "hypothetical" leadership and give me a real franchise player who the other teammates will follow.

This isnt a coaches league anymore its a players league. There are but a handful of coaches that are leaders of men. But they depend upon a player(s) to be the voice in the locker room and on the court.

When your team lacks leadership and direction on all levels of course you dont win. But if you are the franchise player then IMHO you have to control the locker room and the floor. You can beg to differ but without that franchise leader you wont win. You get NUMBSKULLZ like JR spouting off nonsense. This dude needs a real reality check he needs his reigns pulled in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Amare was a leader? You mean the same guy who dropped a documentary about himself on the eve of a playoff series in which he was missing for yet another injury? You mean the guy who took a self imposed day of rest during during a playoff run despite being cleared by team doctors? You mean the guy who's preached continuously about being back to Allstar level rather than what the Knicks as a team will accomplish? Oh him.

You're saying "NOW he wants to do all this" basically insinuating he hasn't done it before. However, this is not the first time he's lost weight in the offseason. Not the first time he's bonded with his team in PR at his charity event. Not his first time he's had private workouts in the offseason with JR, Shumpert and others. So is he really not at all a leader or is he not a guy who throws his "leadership" in the medias face all the time? I'm not impressed by rah rah guys who appear to be leaders on TV but then don't live up to expectations their damn selves. I'll take quiet production over a vocal underachiever any day of the week.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

I'm harping on it? I mentioned his weight loss in this thread and you went on a tirade about how he lacks leadership. Maybe Gringos is right after all. Way too emotional lol
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:13 AM   #27
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I'm harping on it? I mentioned his weight loss in this thread and you went on a tirade about how he lacks leadership. Maybe Gringos is right after all. Way too emotional lol
The article mentioned it.

I am not too emotional but I am obviously angry that this guy after 4 years wants to be a leader. After 4 years he wants to get in the best shape of his career.

IMHO a 20 plus million dollar player should have been these things from (22) jump street.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:22 AM   #28
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

I will concede this. The Front Office allowed Melo to get away with this...

No one should allow JR to get away with his statement.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
The article mentioned it.

I am not too emotional but I am obviously angry that this guy after 4 years wants to be a leader. After 4 years he wants to get in the best shape of his career.

IMHO a 20 plus million dollar player should have been these things from (22) jump street.
But everything I mentioned, he's done before. You just chose not to recognize it lol Apparently you're definition of being a leader entails telling the media "I wanna be a leader."

You strike me as the guy who'll take appreciate the guy doing a ribbon cutting for a community center on TV over the guy who paid for it lol
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: Melo's weight loss

You know what, never mind. You win. I'll never get how this is a bad thing so we'll be going in circle arguing back n forth for nothing.
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