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Old 06-30-2006, 02:18 PM   #31
Joey Zaza
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Originally Posted by bagelred
THAT'S MY POINT. THIS TEAM IS NOT BUILDING ANYTHING.

They don't have the players for a solid foundation of winning. Winning 40 games would be "fools gold" for the Knicks. It will look like they are headed in the right direction, but they won't be....

...and the right direction would be.....?

C'mon Larry Brown tell us the "right way".
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by HaNdLe ThE RoCk
i agree joey.

and vincedrives... i love watchin the nets, love jkidd, vc, and rj i just cant stop being a knick fan, if there was a second team in the east then i support nj unless they are playing ny but in the west its g.s.


understandable. you'r a true fan. those are rare.



here is how long I have been a Nets fan. this is an impassioned speech I gave to the Nets forum a few days ago:

All right, we've been through some tough times. The Ed O'Bannon years. The Coleman years. Dwayne Schintzius. Gheorghe Muresan. Yinka Dare. Kenny Anderson. Shawn Bradley. Kendall Gill. Chris Gatling. Drazen Petrovic (god bless his soul) Keith Van Horn. Ouch. Lowest home attendance in the league two decades straight. Damn right it hurts. But we've stuck with our team through it all. Things are looking up since J-Kidd joined the team, and with Carter and Jefferson healthy, we're winning the championship. Here's to the greatest basketball franchise and the best players in the league.
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
...and the right direction would be.....?

C'mon Larry Brown tell us the "right way".

The right direction is the opposite of everything Isiah has done.....

that was easy....
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:26 PM   #34
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The right direction is the opposite of everything Isiah has done.....

that was easy....

Easy and uninformative. That's a good way to steal a loss from the jaws of losing.

Seriously...because I really want to hear your stupidity...Lets say we all root against the Knicks this year and they lose.

Bagelred cheers - Isiah is fired.

And, according to Bagelred's cheering plan a new, perfect genius GM is hired along with the new perfect genius coach. They work together - with mastermind Bagelred - in ultiimate harmony with a collective goal of building and winning and, of course, doing it the "right way".

In this Bagelred utopia, what do the new, perfect genius GM and new perfect genius coach do?

(and start to throw blame Isiah's way is not an option, rememebr these guys are perfect geniuses, they don't play the blame game).



"Drats, foiled by Bagelred again"

Last edited by Joey Zaza : 06-30-2006 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
Easy and uninformative. That's a good way to steal a loss from the jaws of losing.

Seriously...because I really want to hear your stupidity...Lets say we all root against the Knicks this year and they lose.

Bagelred cheers - Isiah is fired.

And, according to Bagelred's cheering plan a new, perfect genius GM is hired along with the new perfect genius coach. They work together - with mastermind Bagelred - in ultiimate harmony with a collective goal of building and winning and, of course, doing it the "right way".

In this Bagelred utopia, what do the new, perfect genius GM and new perfect genius coach do?

(and start to throw blame Isiah's way is not an option, rememebr these guys are perfect geniuses, they don't play the blame game).

To be honest, I don't know what I'd do. It's a freakin' mess. Isiah has pretty much ruined this team for the next five years...

But ya gotta start somewhere. Get rid of the source of the problem. That's Isiah. Give a ton of money to Rod Thorn. Maybe he'll come over and start the healing...

To be honest, I've never heard of anyone defend Isiah so fervently. HE'S A JOKE. A HUGE ASTRONOMICAL JOKE. AND HE'S RUINED THE KNICKS. LOOK AT THE TEAM. LOOK AT THEIR RECORD. EVERY NBA ANALYST IN THE COUNTRY KNOWS THIS. THEY HAVE THE THIRD WORST ODDS OF WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT YEAR. WHAT ARE YOU DEFENDING?

This whole Isiah era is going to be looked upon as the biggest disappointment in franchise history. The Knicks are a freakin' laughing stock throughout the league....

Keep rooting for Isiah though. He can do it....
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by HaNdLe ThE RoCk
bagel so your telling me..use this for example, if those players i just named went to free agency no one would pick them up? oh plz..they all have value

All teams overrate the value of their own young players.
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:44 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by bagelred
To be honest, I've never heard of anyone defend Isiah so fervently. HE'S A JOKE. A HUGE ASTRONOMICAL JOKE. AND HE'S RUINED THE KNICKS. LOOK AT THE TEAM. LOOK AT THEIR RECORD. EVERY NBA ANALYST IN THE COUNTRY KNOWS THIS. THEY HAVE THE THIRD WORST ODDS OF WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT YEAR. WHAT ARE YOU DEFENDING?

Who is defending Isiah? I am defending the position of rooting for the team. That's what fans do. Only lunatics or teams with a shot at the #1 pick in a good draft, root for their teams to lose.

I see no purpose of rooting for the team to lose - other than to get rid of IT - which only becomes necessary if IT loses. Why not root for him to be able to coach this team to wins? I want him ot be able to coach the team well, then at least we have a coach who can lead the team.

But if he wins, its not real wins because.....why? The players are preternatural losers so they can only lose? I've played basketball and watched basketball, there is one universal truth, everybody wins and everybody loses. These 12 guys are no different.

That no move is even available to improve the team, and only a rash breakdown of the entire squad will lead to success? Does any rational person actually think that. I bet we could get a P.J. Brown for an expring contract like J.Rose. Look - the team just got better.

Why root against when you can root for?

I gave a perfect opportunity to articulate what can be accomplished if Isiah loses...and nothing. So lets hope he wins, maybe things will get better.

Founded in 1953 by former NBA point guard Louis "Red" Klotz, the Washington Generals won a game in 1971 gainst the Globetrotters, with Klotz scoring the winning basket.

Everybody wins and everybody loses.

Last edited by Joey Zaza : 06-30-2006 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:51 PM   #38
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Here, this guy sums up the way many Knicks fans feel. I'm getting tired of typing. Enjoy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ian&id=2501812

His last paragraph sums up what most of us feel here in new york:

"This is the biggest mess in sports, and it only gets bigger now. Thomas is going to coach the Knicks, and the fans of this franchise (at least those interested in the long term) will be rooting wildly against him, just praying the progress of 30 victories with a $125 million payroll doesn't buy them the worst of all possibilities: Remaining the only place in all of pro basketball that would keep Isiah on the job."

Last edited by bagelred : 06-30-2006 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:56 PM   #39
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crickets...crickets...
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
What the other choice?

Be like the Bobcats, breaking it down and bringing in young players to lose but be young while they are losing,

Dude. Don't compare a team that's 75 million OVER the cap to a team that doesn't even have ACCESS to the full salary cap yet.

Still though--being more like the Bobcats wouldn't be a bad idea for the Knicks.

One team just went 26-56 and has a payroll of $33,458,932 ("fair salary" of 35.62m*).

The other team just went 23-59 and has a payroll of $126,610,272 ( "fair salary" of 37.97m).

One team just drafted a guy who had a decent showing in the NIT tournament. The other team just drafted the NCAA's leading scorer.

At this point, I would probably choose Felton over Marbury, Brevin over Skeevy Fakechise, Gerald Wallace over Jamal Crawford, Adam Morrison over Jalen Rose, and Emeka over Channing Frye. Primoz and Curry both suck. IT may argue that Curry still has an incredible upside, but the bottom line is that after five years in the league--he's still a fatasss albatross with a bad ticker.

29 of 30 NBA GMs would agree that the 'Cats are in better shape right now and will be for the next few seasons.

If you wanna compare the Knicks with who they REALLY should be compared with, try the team with 2nd-highest payroll (that would be Dallas).

*via 82games.com
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:44 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by obonpaxis
[

Dude. Don't compare a team that's 75 million OVER the cap to a team that doesn't even have ACCESS to the full salary cap yet.

Still though--being more like the Bobcats wouldn't be a bad idea for the Knicks.

One team just went 26-56 and has a payroll of $33,458,932 ("fair salary" of 35.62m*).

The other team just went 23-59 and has a payroll of $126,610,272 ( "fair salary" of 37.97m).

One team just drafted a guy who had a decent showing in the NIT tournament. The other team just drafted the NCAA's leading scorer.

At this point, I would probably choose Felton over Marbury, Brevin over Skeevy Fakechise, Gerald Wallace over Jamal Crawford, Adam Morrison over Jalen Rose, and Emeka over Channing Frye. Primoz and Curry both suck. IT may argue that Curry still has an incredible upside, but the bottom line is that after five years in the league--he's still a fatasss albatross with a bad ticker.

29 of 30 NBA GMs would agree that the 'Cats are in better shape right now and will be for the next few seasons.

If you wanna compare the Knicks with who they REALLY should be compared with, try the team with 2nd-highest payroll (that would be Dallas).

*via 82games.com

You might say the Knicks are in the "Land of the Lost".....
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:47 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred
What's going to happen is the Knicks will be a "success" by playing .500 ball. Woopdee-freakin-doo!!!!

So then they'll be in medicrity for the next four years, with Isiah still around making bad decisions...

You think a team with Francis, Marbury, Crawford, James, Curry, Richardson, Robinson is going anywhere? All those guys are just losing players....

1). .500 ball means playoffs, playoffs means we are out of the lottery, which means Chicago doesnt get a good pick

2). Francis has been considered elite for a long time. Marbury is an excellent scorer. Crawford is a proven clutch player. James has shown that he can be effective. Curry will be a dominant center once his defense improves. Richardson has been to the western conference finals, and is a good defender. And Robinson is a rookie, how can we judge him yet? These guys are winners, you are not good at analysing talent
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:49 PM   #43
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Default Rings come from luck but......

When you are a losing team you can not expect the next step to be a ring! Besides championships have come from things other than the draft. LA got Kobe at 13 in the draft. That is just a gamble that paid off and then Shaq signed with that team. '04 Pistons were built through trades and free agency! The '94 rockets traded for Clyde Drexler. The point is Knicks have a huge payrole and tallent but the player's value is low. If Thomas can get his players to perform he will be in a position to trade for a big time star that can lead them to a championship. Besides watching your team in the finals is only two week out of the year we want to enjoy watching these guys play all the time and that doesn't mean waiting around for a (Duncan,Jordan,O'Neal) type player!
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Life
1). .500 ball means playoffs, playoffs means we are out of the lottery, which means Chicago doesnt get a good pick

2). Francis has been considered elite for a long time. Marbury is an excellent scorer. Crawford is a proven clutch player. James has shown that he can be effective. Curry will be a dominant center once his defense improves. Richardson has been to the western conference finals, and is a good defender. And Robinson is a rookie, how can we judge him yet? These guys are winners, you are not good at analysing talent

Is this Isiah in disguise? heh heh heh...

These guys are winners? lol lol lol lol lmao lol

James has shown he can be effective? Effective at the buffet line, sure...

Richardson has been to WCF? So has Sean Bradley...

Francis is considered elite? Elite at what? Getting coaches fired?

Marbury is an excellent scorer? He's also excellent at not winning games.

Curry? defense? He should defend his mouth from the plate of food.

Crawford? Clutch player? You have to make the playoffs to be a clutch player, I believe....

Robinson? How can we judge? Well, he's not getting any taller...

Anything else?

Last edited by bagelred : 06-30-2006 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:58 PM   #45
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Curry will be a dominant center once his defense improves

Nah. Curry couldn't guard the Venus of Willendorf. People have been saying "when his defense improves" since 2002. The boy is lazy. Think about it: Scott Skiles and Larry Brown couldn't light a fire under his blubbery ass. He'll completely tune Isiah out by the time Christmas rolls around. They all will.
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