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Old 06-30-2006, 04:01 PM   #46
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A lot of you have been saying that the Knicks season would not be a "success" if they only got 40 wins. So taking a step forward isn't a success?

Example: If I average 14.8 points in the eighth grade, then I average 21.5 points as a freshman. That isn't a success?

So if the Knicks get 40 wins, go to the playoffs, but don't win a championship, the season wasn't a success? They haven't accomplished anything? All we are trying to do is take some steps forward. If we get 40 wins, how is that not a success? Thats 17 more wins than last season. 17 wins improved isn't a success?
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:04 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Life
Francis has been considered elite for a long time.

He hasn't been the same since Cuttino broke his heart.

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Old 06-30-2006, 04:17 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Life
A lot of you have been saying that the Knicks season would not be a "success" if they only got 40 wins. So taking a step forward isn't a success?

Example: If I average 14.8 points in the eighth grade, then I average 21.5 points as a freshman. That isn't a success?

So if the Knicks get 40 wins, go to the playoffs, but don't win a championship, the season wasn't a success? They haven't accomplished anything? All we are trying to do is take some steps forward. If we get 40 wins, how is that not a success? Thats 17 more wins than last season. 17 wins improved isn't a success?

If the Knicks won 10 games, and then the next year won 20, KnicksFan4Life would say:

"See they DOUBLED their win total. Isn't that progress?"
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:33 PM   #49
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You need to re-title your thread. I answered your original point "Knick Dilemma" and haven't heard a compelling reason to root against them other than because they are bad or stupid or over the cap...but that doesn't support rooting against them, its just reasons why they are bad.

The correct title of this thread is "Random Knick Bashing" - which is fine, but you cannot argue with it because it is random and simply bashing.

So go enjoy yourself. Bash the Knicks, but don't pretend there is a greater purose to be found for fans to root against them.

Plus your "crickets" comment - yeah you really shut me up by posting an article written containing more Random Knick Bashing. How does that prove that we should root against them? Why would I want it NOT to work...oh because they are bad and of course Random Knick Bashing...I forgot.

Just for the heck of it, here's some more, Random Knick Bashing

I love the cap Random Knick Bashing argument. I'm not paying it...cablevision is...so what do I care how much the team costs? Next time cap space wins a title, or buys the guy that brings a title... let me know. And why would that make it good to root against the team? Wouldn't I want them to play well so that the players are more desireable to other teams? ohhh - I know why, Random Knick Bashing.

Tell you what, tell me what a Knick fan has to gain by roting against his team. There is nothing to gain--except for the fun of - Random Knick Bashing

Isiah hahahah, Dolan hahaha, so fat Curry hahahah Random Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick Bashing Isiah, Dolan hahahaha,...so expensive, so many losses Random Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick Bashing

Now I just matched the wit of Bagelred.
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred
His last paragraph sums up what most of us feel here in new york:

"This is the biggest mess in sports, and it only gets bigger now. Thomas is going to coach the Knicks, and the fans of this franchise (at least those interested in the long term) will be rooting wildly against him, just praying the progress of 30 victories with a $125 million payroll doesn't buy them the worst of all possibilities: Remaining the only place in all of pro basketball that would keep Isiah on the job."

I'm in NY that's not how I feel, to tel lyou the truth, I don't understand it, so I cannot possibly feel it.

Why would I root against them: If they play well, their players will be more attractive to suitors, the Bulls won't take a good pick from us, we'll be enjoyable to watch for winning some games, we may establish a chemistry or rhythm to build on for the future.

What long term goal is served by rooting wildly against them?
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:41 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
You need to re-title your thread. I answered your original point "Knick Dilemma" and haven't heard a compelling reason to root against them other than because they are bad or stupid or over the cap...but that doesn't support rooting against them, its just reasons why they are bad.

The correct title of this thread is "Random Knick Bashing" - which is fine, but you cannot argue with it because it is random and simply bashing.

So go enjoy yourself. Bash the Knicks, but don't pretend there is a greater purose to be found for fans to root against them.

Plus your "crickets" comment - yeah you really shut me up by posting an article written containing more Random Knick Bashing. How does that prove that we should root against them? Why would I want it NOT to work...oh because they are bad and of course Random Knick Bashing...I forgot.

Just for the heck of it, here's some more, Random Knick Bashing

I love the cap Random Knick Bashing argument. I'm not paying it...cablevision is...so what do I care how much the team costs? Next time cap space wins a title, or buys the guy that brings a title... let me know. And why would that make it good to root against the team? Wouldn't I want them to play well so that the players are more desireable to other teams? ohhh - I know why, Random Knick Bashing.

Tell you what, tell me what a Knick fan has to gain by roting against his team. There is nothing to gain--except for the fun of - Random Knick Bashing

Isiah hahahah, Dolan hahaha, so fat Curry hahahah Random Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick Bashing Isiah, Dolan hahahaha,...so expensive, so many losses Random Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick BashingRandom Knick Bashing

Now I just matched the wit of Bagelred.

Did you read the article I attached? It will explain our thought process.....
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:41 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred

"See they DOUBLED their win total. Isn't that progress?"

Exactly, thats called progress. Ever heard of it?!?!?!?!?!!?
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:42 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
I'm in NY that's not how I feel, to tel lyou the truth, I don't understand it, so I cannot possibly feel it.

Why would I root against them: If they play well, their players will be more attractive to suitors, the Bulls won't take a good pick from us, we'll be enjoyable to watch for winning some games, we may establish a chemistry or rhythm to build on for the future.

What long term goal is served by rooting wildly against them?

The short term goal is to get rid of Isiah so we get better management in place. The longer Isiah is there, the worse off the organization is long term.

Last edited by bagelred : 06-30-2006 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Life
Exactly, thats called progress. Ever heard of it?!?!?!?!?!!?

lmao
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:51 PM   #55
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I don't speak computer nerd, explain to me what "lmao" means
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:53 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Life
I don't speak computer nerd, explain to me what "lmao" means

lmao = laughing my a$$ off

pretty standard
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:05 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred
The short term goal is to get rid of Isiah so we get better management in place. The longer Isiah is there, the worse off the organization is long term.

Then I go back to my comment from three pages ago - perfect manager/perfect coach...what do you want them to do.

Personally, I am pissed that there is no plan in place and bleak hope for te future, but glad IT is coaching.

He thinks these guys can play together, there must be a reason (he's delusional, he's a dummy, Random Knicks Bashing) maybe he knows something...maybe he knows more than Bagelred, dumbass sportswriter, and myself from playing, coaching and watching these guys play. Maybe he has a plan that can work for them.

That's nonsense ZAZA, Random Knick Bashing - the same way that Francis, Marbury etc are born losers, IT is a born screwer up'er. Random Knick Bashing. Random Knick Bashing.
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred
If I'm not mistaken, Michael Jordan was a draft pick taken because....the Bulls were bad?
Yes.
Quote:
Didn't they get Pippen because....the Bulls were bad?
No. They traded to get Pippen, who was drafted by Seattle, then traded to the Bulls on draft day for Olden Polynice (how'd that work out, Seattle?).
Quote:
You know why SA got Tim Duncan? Because they were bad....
No, San Antonio was actually a VERY good team (win totals: 55, 62, 59, 20, 56, 37*, 53). However, they happened to be decimated by injuries in their 20-win 1996-97 season (David Robinson basically missed the whole season, and their #2 player, Sean Elliott, missed half the year), and lucked into the top spot in the lottery that year. But they had won 55+ games each of the previous three seasons, and except for the strike-shortened season, when they won 37 games - equivalent to a 60-win full-length season - won over 50 games the next three seasons). Duncan to the Spurs was luck, because the Spurs were a very good team that just happened to all get injured at once for one year.
Quote:
Miami got Dwayne Wade..why? Bad....
True.
Quote:
Los Angelese got Kobe...somewhat high draft pick...bad....
The Lakers traded Vlade Divac for Kobe; the Lakers were actually coming off a 53-win season.
Quote:
Rockets got Akeem.....because they were bad....
True.
Quote:
Cavs got Lebron....bad
True.
Quote:
Rockets got Yao....bad
True.
Quote:
KG...bad
True, BUT with a caveat - the Wolves were an expansion team that was never good to begin with.
Quote:
Orlando got Shaq....bad
See my point about KG above. Expansion teams are SUPPOSED to be bad.
Quote:
Then got Penny....bad
As pointed out, the Magic were lucky; they went 41-41 and had the worst odds in the lottery, but got Penny anyway.
Quote:
Ewing...bad
True.
Quote:
Get the picture?
Yeah... of the 12 players you named, 2 were picked by expansion teams in their early years (who, unlike existing teams, are bad because they have to start off with other teams' crap), 1 was an injury fluke, 1 was a lottery fluke, and 2 were traded for... meaning that only half of the guys you mentioned went to the team because the team was going through a true "bad patch."

Look at the dominant players on the last few title teams:

06 Heat - Wade (drafted), Shaq (trade)
05 Spurs - Duncan (drafted*), Ginobili (drafted), Horry (free agent)
04 Pistons - Wallace boys (trades), Billups (trade)
03 Spurs - Duncan (drafted), Parker (drafted)
00-02 Lakers - Shaq (free agent), Kobe (trade)
99 Spurs - Duncan (drafted), Robinson (drafted)
96-98 Bulls - Jordan (drafted), Pippen (trade)
94-95 Rockets - Olajuwon (drafted), Drexler/Thorpe (trade)
91-93 Bulls - Jordan (drafted), Pippen (trade)
89-90 Pistons - Thomas (drafted), Dumars (drafted)
87-88 Lakers - Johnson (drafted), Worthy (drafted*)
86 - Celtics - Bird (drafted), McHale (trade), Parish (trade)
85 - Lakers - Johnson (drafted), Jabbar (trade)
84 - Celtics - Bird (drafted), D. Johnson (trade)
83 - 76ers - Malone (trade), Irving (trade)
82 - Lakers - Johnson (drafted), Jabbar (trade)
81 - Celtics - Bird (drafted), D. Johnson (trade)
80 - Lakers - Jabbar (trade), Johnson (drafted)

* - The pick the Lakers used to draft Worthy came as compensation for the Jazz' signing of Gail Goodrich, so it's really more of a trade

Take a long look at that list... it's important to note that only the Spurs and the 89-90 Pistons got both of their stars via drafting alone (and the Spurs used late picks to get great players, meaning they didn't get those players because they were bad at one point)... every other championship team had to use free agency or trade to get at least one of their two big guns... in other words, "being bad" isn't enough - at some point you have to make the right trade/free agent signing to add your second "big gun" to the mix.

It's not enough just to be bad. You have to be smart, too. ;)
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:24 PM   #59
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bagelred isnt' a Knicks fan.

A true fan roots for his team, sure they may want changes or people fired. But they still root for their team.
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Zalendar
bagelred isnt' a Knicks fan.

A true fan roots for his team, sure they may want changes or people fired. But they still root for their team.

I am doing what is best for the team long term. The best thing for the team long term is for Isiah to be gone in the short term. It's just good business management.

If you own a business and have a terrible manager, should the B of directors wait to fire him and give him a chance to improve things a bit, even though he's incompetent, or do you want him gone right away, so you can move on and get a great manager in there and start the process of rebuilding the company.

I go with the 2nd.

GO KNICKS COMPETITION!!!!!
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