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Old 08-20-2014, 03:36 AM   #1
mr beast
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Default bringing the ball up against pressure defense

seeking advice from experienced guards , preferably people that have played high school ball and up

what are some good moves you use to bring the ball up the floor against pressure defense

i can bring it up fine against pressure defense by beating it with speed but it's sloppy and prone to running into traps, i see more experienced pgs can do it with poise and they don't have this feeling where they are rushing it.

any advice or moves that you use to achieve that?

dont tell me backdown dribbles because that shiet doesn't really work that well and is prone to getting trapped.


i do give the ball up so i dont waste too much energy against pressure defense but i've played some games where im one of the few ball handler on the team so i have to be the one handling the rock.
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Old 08-20-2014, 05:35 AM   #2
bdreason
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Never played point, but I've been coaching HS ball for about 3 years now. If a team is just applying single man full court pressure, and our PG is having issues dealing with it, I have the SG set a screen at the right elbow, and put our best passing big at half court.

If you're looking for individual tips I would recommend you keep practicing your weak hand dribble. The best way to beat individual pressure on the ball is to be unpredictable. The best way to be unpredictable is to have a solid handle... in both directions. We force everyone left until they prove they can do it.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

What is the nature of the pressure you typically come across? Just one defender hounding you the length of the floor? And are we talking during real live games or open gym and pickup?

For standard one-man full court pressure, I've usually stood by the idea of control, pace, and direction change. If it's a real game with officials, it doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking - keep the ball between your body and the defender, keep it low, take your time. A defender has to cede position lest they wish to be called for blocking fouls all night.

To put a different look on things, if the tables were turned with you hounding a ballhandler the length of the floor, what could that ballhandler do to make your job more difficult and/or ineffective? Conversely, if you were hounding that ballhandler, what would you like them to do? Putting a point guard on a scampering and panicked run can probably be deemed a success, no?

As such, I think the idea, as a point guard, is to dictate the tempo yourself. Steady, low handles. And from a psychological perspective, remind yourself that the defender should be the one that's worried about getting beat, as opposed to you being worried about getting locked down. You have the power in this scenario - the closer and more tightly a defender is attempting to lock, the more susceptible they are to being eluded through small, quick moves.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:50 AM   #4
01amberfirewv
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

I've never played organized basketball but I do play against good competition regularly and now coach at the high school level.

#1 keep your head up, you need to be able to dribble with either hand with your head up.

#retreat dribble, be able to pull the ball back quickly cross over and change direction
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

dont look scared of they comin for u
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

I was a very good PG at the HS level, and a walk on at the college level. I had the misfortune at the time, but after the fact it's been a blessing, to play for two coaches at both levels.

In my younger years in HS, we ran a post up press breaker that I still employ now. It does require a big who can catch and pass. But it kills, especially against man pressure, because big men don't defend in the press very well. The gist is to bait the pressure to the sidelines so they think they're getting what they want, then retreat and hit a big flashing middle, and run up the sideline to attack, or use a second guard to behind for relief, which usually results in a quick switch of the court and an attack from there. And the ball handling move for dealing with traps, and one I teach all the time, is what I call a drag dribble, but I often hear as a retreat dribble. It was always counter-intuitive for me to go backwards, but once I trained myself to do it, creating that space and then going forward was a brutal option for people to defend. And it does work against hard man to man too. It's just about making space.

If you're talking ball hounding man up pressure, my senior year in HS coach used to employ the traditional clear out and let me bring it up even if I had a young Gary Payton on me.

It was rarely a problem. Not to say I never got one picked, but it was never an issue where it affected us to the point we changed the approach or anything. But I was a physical guard. I played in HS at 6 feet and about 190 lbs. I was quick, although not as quick as some of the guys guarding me. If they didn't want to keep their distance, I focused on a single move. Don't get too cute trying to blow by guys with multiple moves, or tricky ball handling, and don't put it in front of them much. If they pressed me before I started my dribble it was nothing. A jab series could get me half a step on anyone. And once I had my shoulder in you it's was just a ride into the frontcourt.
After the bounce meant having to put a move on the bounce into it. I used basically three moves. A hard snapped crossover, tight and on the inside, nothing wide and flared out like an AI in the halfcourt. There's too much risk there. Frankly even that wasn't my preference because even at it's best it requires exposure and hence some risk. A between the legs was my preference. It keeps your body in the way more even though it takes a hair longer. But you're not looking for a blow by. The reward is just getting it up the court, so why increase the risk much. And thirdly is my favorite. A short inside out move. It just deeks the change of direction, which means the risk is really minimal. And if it just freezes your guy for a moment, you can get your shoulder in and go.

A few more tips. Know you can put a foot over the mid court line. Two of the three of The Ball, and your two feet, have to be over the line to be established in the front court. It's a great trick to bait the trap and then use that retreat dribble, and then everything opens up behind it.

Don't be afraid to give the ball up.

Minimize the risk to the ball. There's no benefit in making someone look bad that far from the hoop. It just exposes more risk.

Be physical. Once you have a body on them, ride them up the court.
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Old 08-20-2014, 05:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Thanks guys lots of solid advices here and just to answer a few questions you've asked me as well.

I'm asking for advice in a real reffed game , competition level varies but the higher competition i play the more i see the other team employing full court press. sometimes it's just 1 man hounding the ball handler sometimes it's a full court press and trap. Competition level varies quite a bit but from time to time, i had to go up against some players that had played div 2 or JC so they are pretty decent.

i usually beat my defense with a simple hesitation dribble, head fake or cross over. I just started learning to do the pull back/drag/retreat dribble to create space. sometimes i beat the defense clean but i get picked from behind , i guess i will just have to learn to switch hands once i beat the defender.

@Thorpesaurous three questions for you

1. when you ride the defender up the court, are you driving into his body to make contact when you guys are shoulder to shoulder? i think my problem is i avoid the contact too much by trying to go around them in an arc which then takes me to the two corner spots where sideline meets center line which is notorious known as the dead spots for getting trapped once the guard passes half court.

2. Also when do you usually use the drag or retreat dribble? i always do it when i make my initial move on my defender and if it feels like he's head to head with me or about to get ahead of me then i snatch the ball back, do you have any advice on what's a better time to pull the dribble back

3. do you zig zag across the court or make 1 move then ride the defender up the court? i definitely try to make it simple most of the time but i noticed when i just make a quick move and try to beat the defender, if i don't beat them clean, they always push me towards the trap zone versus if i make a move then retreat and change direction as the defender shifts, i have more success of bringing the ball up without running into the trap zones.


@01amberfirewv - great advices, i definitely need to work on keeping my head up and survey the court. good advice on retreat dribble, i've been trying to add that to my arsenal along with a shiet load of hesitation


@Rake2204 - i know i can always count on you with great tips and advices. agree with everything you stated but do you have any specific examples or clips of people bringing the ball up that you think i can benefit from?


@bdreason - good advice on the weak hand. as a defender, how are you training your players to force left or a certain direction? i've seen most defenders myself included to use a slanted stance to force players to go certain direction but they usually have a pivot foot in front which advice the ball handler should attack that feet which is opposite the way the defender want the ball handler to go.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Most people defend the wrong way when trying to force the ballhandler left. Most people will naturally try to force a player left by placing their left foot forward, thinking that their position on the court alone will force a player left. The truth is that you need to maximize your ability to defend the right drive by placing your right foot forward, and daring the player to beat you going left. I tell my kids to not think of it as forcing a player left, but instead focus on never letting the ballhandler beat you going right.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:09 AM   #9
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Best is to pass (If there's an open men and there's no one to intercept), if not dribble really low, you got to be aggressive dont let their hands get near you or the ball..
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr beast
Thanks guys lots of solid advices here and just to answer a few questions you've asked me as well.

I'm asking for advice in a real reffed game , competition level varies but the higher competition i play the more i see the other team employing full court press. sometimes it's just 1 man hounding the ball handler sometimes it's a full court press and trap. Competition level varies quite a bit but from time to time, i had to go up against some players that had played div 2 or JC so they are pretty decent.

i usually beat my defense with a simple hesitation dribble, head fake or cross over. I just started learning to do the pull back/drag/retreat dribble to create space. sometimes i beat the defense clean but i get picked from behind , i guess i will just have to learn to switch hands once i beat the defender.

@Thorpesaurous three questions for you

1. when you ride the defender up the court, are you driving into his body to make contact when you guys are shoulder to shoulder? i think my problem is i avoid the contact too much by trying to go around them in an arc which then takes me to the two corner spots where sideline meets center line which is notorious known as the dead spots for getting trapped once the guard passes half court.

2. Also when do you usually use the drag or retreat dribble? i always do it when i make my initial move on my defender and if it feels like he's head to head with me or about to get ahead of me then i snatch the ball back, do you have any advice on what's a better time to pull the dribble back

3. do you zig zag across the court or make 1 move then ride the defender up the court? i definitely try to make it simple most of the time but i noticed when i just make a quick move and try to beat the defender, if i don't beat them clean, they always push me towards the trap zone versus if i make a move then retreat and change direction as the defender shifts, i have more success of bringing the ball up without running into the trap zones.


@01amberfirewv - great advices, i definitely need to work on keeping my head up and survey the court. good advice on retreat dribble, i've been trying to add that to my arsenal along with a shiet load of hesitation


@Rake2204 - i know i can always count on you with great tips and advices. agree with everything you stated but do you have any specific examples or clips of people bringing the ball up that you think i can benefit from?


@bdreason - good advice on the weak hand. as a defender, how are you training your players to force left or a certain direction? i've seen most defenders myself included to use a slanted stance to force players to go certain direction but they usually have a pivot foot in front which advice the ball handler should attack that feet which is opposite the way the defender want the ball handler to go.


Yes, contact is essential. If you go wide, and the defender is of the quality to bother you, they're just going to get over the top of the ball again.

I know when I coach man pressure, that is specifically what I teach. Don't just make a gamble and shoot for the ball. Exaggerate your defense, get so far over the ball on the ball handler's ball hand, that he's forced to change direction, and therefore forced to switch hands via some kind of a crossover. Once you know he's going to do it, you can make a swipe, or even better, if you know he's going to do it, jump back to the other spot and that may force him into a second switch, which is when things can get scary. (I call this a "double jump", it's when you put a guy in a position to expose the ball, but take advantage of it not by going after it at all, but by knowing where he has to go, and beating him to that spot, forcing a second, often more dangerous move). But to get that far over an offensive player's handle requires space. And by creating contact on offense, you can prevent it.

In fact, I feel one of the most misinterpreted things in the sport is contact. People talk about "physical defense" all the time. But impact defensive players need space. Ball hawking guards are neutralized when you can get a shoulder on them. Shot blocking bigs are neautralized by getting into their chest. Post defenders lose mobility once they're backed onto. The impetus to create contact is on the offense. Maintaining that space on defense is what allows the defender to change direction and make plays.

And it's counterintuitive, but that's why the handchecking being outlawed had such a big impact. It's not the physicallity of the defense so much as it allowed the defender to maintain the optimal cushion between him and the guy he was guarding.

The drag dribble I use when a defender gets over my ball, but is still close enough to make a play on it if I try to snap it in front of him. One of the reasons I teach that "double jump", is because of the instinct to always be going forward. If a guy drag dribbles in that spot, my double jump defense doesn't bother him. Frankly a simple hesitation against a single man pressure is often enough to get him to overrun you and open the other side of the court with a quick clean change of direction.
Typically I teach that drag dribble with respect to trapping zones. Don't give up your dribble is something you typically hear, but that's easier said than done with two guys and the sideline closing off your forward progress. And it's easy to tell someone to dribble backward, but it wasn't until I was taught to drag the ball, slide like I was on defense, and keep it on my back hip, that it all came together. Pulling that trap away just opens up so much stuff in the middle of the court. More room to flash. More passing angles. More space to cross over and get around the trap. And the way I try to teach is sort of drive your but away from the sideline, creating space along that edge too. And if the top defender comes with you, and and inside out move can get you up the sideline that he gave up, then you can really attack.

I definitely don't agree with the zig zagging approach. Every change of direction is a change of ball hand, which is a risk. I try not to change directions unless I'm forced to either by a guy getting his head over my ball, or running me close enough to the sideline that I'm not comfortable.

And there was another tip I meant to add. You have to attack it. It's not good enough to just get the ball up. If you don't punish a team for pressing you, they won't stop. And then it's all reward and no risk for them. So when you break that trap. Or if a man up defender wants to be so close to you as to leave all that space behind him. Then when you guys get into that space, either by your handling or someone filling it, you have to turn and start attacking. Obviously time and situation matter. But generally that is my belief. And I don't agree with the three against the press generally (certain personel excluded obviously). I want to get toward the rim, and if a kick out yields it fine, but jacking up threes after that press to me isn't really punishing it.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

I played the small forward position so I rarely bring the ball down. but in my team we used 2 guards who's capable of bringing the ball down.
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
What is the nature of the pressure you typically come across? Just one defender hounding you the length of the floor? And are we talking during real live games or open gym and pickup?

For standard one-man full court pressure, I've usually stood by the idea of control, pace, and direction change. If it's a real game with officials, it doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking - keep the ball between your body and the defender, keep it low, take your time. A defender has to cede position lest they wish to be called for blocking fouls all night.

To put a different look on things, if the tables were turned with you hounding a ballhandler the length of the floor, what could that ballhandler do to make your job more difficult and/or ineffective? Conversely, if you were hounding that ballhandler, what would you like them to do? Putting a point guard on a scampering and panicked run can probably be deemed a success, no?

As such, I think the idea, as a point guard, is to dictate the tempo yourself. Steady, low handles. And from a psychological perspective, remind yourself that the defender should be the one that's worried about getting beat, as opposed to you being worried about getting locked down. You have the power in this scenario - the closer and more tightly a defender is attempting to lock, the more susceptible they are to being eluded through small, quick moves.


This is something I talk to my kids about all the time. We live in a culture where getting crossed up yields an ooooohh from a crowd. But in real life it's of little consequence. We pressure the ball coming up like that because the risk is worth the reward. The reward is the occasional steal and usually easy bucket. If the risk is getting ooohed at, then it's a no brainer. So I teach the head over the ball, force a direction change, make a play on it, and then the double jump approach. Because we're far enough from the hoop that you can recover. We as a team with four behind you can help you recover. It's also one of the reasons why on offense I teach to punish the press if it's put on us.

There are other risks. The two biggies are exhaustion, and fouls. Exhaustion, if your a youth coach like me, is actually a good one. It's not always easy to use your bench in a competitive situation. I keep 11 kids on teams that often play only 6 minute quarters, and at most 8 minute quarters. So one way I get my bench on the floor is by assigning them these labor intensive jobs for short spurts.

That also helps with foul trouble too. But it doesn't help with team fouls. And teaching the right way to gamble is important to me. We full inside hand shoots at the ball are for specific moments. I won't go as far as calling them out from the bench, but I will call them off if I see more than a couple.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: bringing the ball up against pressure defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
Yes, contact is essential. If you go wide, and the defender is of the quality to bother you, they're just going to get over the top of the ball again.

I know when I coach man pressure, that is specifically what I teach. Don't just make a gamble and shoot for the ball. Exaggerate your defense, get so far over the ball on the ball handler's ball hand, that he's forced to change direction, and therefore forced to switch hands via some kind of a crossover. Once you know he's going to do it, you can make a swipe, or even better, if you know he's going to do it, jump back to the other spot and that may force him into a second switch, which is when things can get scary. (I call this a "double jump", it's when you put a guy in a position to expose the ball, but take advantage of it not by going after it at all, but by knowing where he has to go, and beating him to that spot, forcing a second, often more dangerous move). But to get that far over an offensive player's handle requires space. And by creating contact on offense, you can prevent it.

In fact, I feel one of the most misinterpreted things in the sport is contact. People talk about "physical defense" all the time. But impact defensive players need space. Ball hawking guards are neutralized when you can get a shoulder on them. Shot blocking bigs are neautralized by getting into their chest. Post defenders lose mobility once they're backed onto. The impetus to create contact is on the offense. Maintaining that space on defense is what allows the defender to change direction and make plays.

And it's counterintuitive, but that's why the handchecking being outlawed had such a big impact. It's not the physicallity of the defense so much as it allowed the defender to maintain the optimal cushion between him and the guy he was guarding.

The drag dribble I use when a defender gets over my ball, but is still close enough to make a play on it if I try to snap it in front of him. One of the reasons I teach that "double jump", is because of the instinct to always be going forward. If a guy drag dribbles in that spot, my double jump defense doesn't bother him. Frankly a simple hesitation against a single man pressure is often enough to get him to overrun you and open the other side of the court with a quick clean change of direction.
Typically I teach that drag dribble with respect to trapping zones. Don't give up your dribble is something you typically hear, but that's easier said than done with two guys and the sideline closing off your forward progress. And it's easy to tell someone to dribble backward, but it wasn't until I was taught to drag the ball, slide like I was on defense, and keep it on my back hip, that it all came together. Pulling that trap away just opens up so much stuff in the middle of the court. More room to flash. More passing angles. More space to cross over and get around the trap. And the way I try to teach is sort of drive your but away from the sideline, creating space along that edge too. And if the top defender comes with you, and and inside out move can get you up the sideline that he gave up, then you can really attack.

I definitely don't agree with the zig zagging approach. Every change of direction is a change of ball hand, which is a risk. I try not to change directions unless I'm forced to either by a guy getting his head over my ball, or running me close enough to the sideline that I'm not comfortable.

And there was another tip I meant to add. You have to attack it. It's not good enough to just get the ball up. If you don't punish a team for pressing you, they won't stop. And then it's all reward and no risk for them. So when you break that trap. Or if a man up defender wants to be so close to you as to leave all that space behind him. Then when you guys get into that space, either by your handling or someone filling it, you have to turn and start attacking. Obviously time and situation matter. But generally that is my belief. And I don't agree with the three against the press generally (certain personel excluded obviously). I want to get toward the rim, and if a kick out yields it fine, but jacking up threes after that press to me isn't really punishing it.


repped and thanks for all the tips.

yep, i noticed a huge difference when we play against teams with weaker defense. if their defenders aren't quick or physical enough during the press (or they just have really bad chemistry and are not trapping at the right time), i always turn it into 5 on 4 or 5 on 3 for an easy lay up. 1~2 lay ups are enough to get them to back off.

The idea is to create space so you can either pass or make another dribble move when being pressed, do you have any other moves that you can recommend for creating space? sometimes i drag or sometimes i just stop at a dime after exploding off hesitation in 1 direction , they usually get shifted and a gap would open up.
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