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Old 03-29-2007, 02:36 PM   #31
Soccer10
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
What in your opinion do they need... (in order of priority)?





1. A second option, perferably a big man who can draw double teams and make impact offensively.
Jermaine O Neal or Pau Gasol.
I'd give Odom and Bynum for JO or Pau.

2. A PG....

Yeah, sounds simple this way but basically what I wanted to say is that they need a plan.

What to do with Bynum who's too young for Kobe?
What to do with Odom who doesn't fit Kobe?
Just then I'd start thinking about the PG position..
And yet, they'd still need some pieces like an athletic SF defender...

A guy like JO or Pau can make them a contender over night.
Unfortunetely, both options are unlikely.
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

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Originally Posted by hotsizzle
Need more than ****ing PG. They need real ballers. players who consider defense a part of the game and will put an effort no matter the circumstances. players who consistently hit open shots. players who wont take anything for granted and play sloppy when they have a big lead. players who don't think they're tooo good that they will beat a team just because they've won a couple in a row. Athletic hard players who hustle and play to win not for personal glory. Most impotantly, players who are experienced veterans, that can run an offense and can play to their given roles.

Players to keep are Kobe, Odom, Walton. Everyone else can go. Those three and perhaps Kwame are the only ones I see trying and putting an effort in on a regular basis.

Lakers could have set themselves for big plans this summer. But no, they go and extend one dimensional defenseless effortless inconsistent Brian Cook. They go and pick up an option on Kwame who would have lifted 8 mil off the cap this yr. And now they're thinking of re-signing Smush.

....and who knows? maybe this Laker team is just young and will breakout soon but it aint lookn good so far.They show glimpses of it but then cave back in. Thats why I question their heart and determination.


Couldn't disagree more. He's the first one that needs to go.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

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Originally Posted by Soccer10
Couldn't disagree more. He's the first one that needs to go.

Lamar tries though. His defense is crucial. The matchup problem he creates and his unselfish play is perfect for the tri. Besides, hes been consistent this year.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:31 PM   #34
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Isn't LO our leading rebounder and our 2nd leading assists? Folks should keep in mind that playing along side Kobe is not easy (ask Caron Butler). That player has to contribute in multiple ways since Kobe is the #1 option. How does a #1 option (Gasol, Jo, KG) handle becoming the #2? Does he contribute in other ways? LO does.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsizzle
Lamar tries though. His defense is crucial. The matchup problem he creates and his unselfish play is perfect for the tri. Besides, hes been consistent this year.


Oh please. Lamar with his unselfish play is perfect as a glue guy but not as a 2nd option.
He's a terrible fit for the Lakers and he's the first one that has to pack his bags this summer.

Here are some great posts on Lamar from my favorite poster.. How can you disagree with any of this?

Anyway..

Quote:
Offensively the second highest paid player on this team needs to be able to optimize Kobe. Odom can't, he doesn't draw a double.

Defensively the 4 on this team needs to be an anchor since Bynum and Kwame can't fill that role. Odom can't he lacks the power base and isn't a shotblocker.

Odom is a glue guy, a third option facilitator whose stats are bigger than his impact on the floor. You don't pay a guy like that 15 million per.

Odom needs to be dealt for an impact 2-way 4 that draws a double and anchors. With Indy circling the drain maybe JO can be had in an Odom-led deal in the summer.

Beatdown will defend Odom to the death, but the Lakers are making Odom available in the summer IF he can land them someone like O'Neal. JO fills the two needs, optimizes Kobe by drawing a double inside, anchors the D. If Odom and non-Bynum X can get JO the Lakers would pull the trigger, despite Beatdown's spirited objections.

Quote:
The choice is indeed simple and easy. O'Neal in a heartbeat. He provides what they lack and need desperately. JO makes them a contender overnight. Keep Odom and contention is tied to Bynum's development.

Quote:
It's always numbers with you, no wonder you love Odom so much. You quote stats and are blind to FLOOR IMPACT.

What is the floor impact of JO drawing a double inside? What is the impact to Kobe? The defense is forced to pick their poison, JO inside or Kobe outside, can't double both. As we saw in the threepeat a defense cannot handle it. Either Kobe has room to create or the big has a solo matchup inside. You want numbers fine, JO has better numbers than Odom and because JO is on the floor Kobe has better numbers than he has now at a higher percentage.

You want another number? 2.7 to 0.6 in blocks. What's the floor impact of that? A real anchor takes this defense from pathetic to competitive. Even if they still have a turnstile 1 there's an anchor back there to swat and alter shots. The defense is transformed by an upgrade at 4 from 0.6 to 2.7. That number is huge.

You're like Hollinger, a stat hound so lost in the numbers he doesn't see the game. O'Neal's impact to his teammates around him is far greater than Odom's. That has to enter your value equation but you're just churning stats. Floor impact is why they would deal Odom for JO in a nanosecond.

Quote:
And Lamar as a severe matchup problem for the west gets them what? How far do they go as a result of that mismatch? First round and out two years in a row.

Now how far would they go if a team is forced to double a Laker big inside? How far would they go if the Lakers actually had an anchor and one of the worst defenses in the playoffs is transformed? A lot further than the first round.

Quote:
Odom doesn't have the floor impact of O'Neal that's laughable.

I have them losing for basketball reasons. My heart doesn't overrule my head. I've been a Laker fan for 36 years but I call it straight, always have always will.

Next year healthy they can go deeper, but with no anchor they still have no chance at a ring.

Quote:
We need a point that can defend and an anchor. I've been crying about the need for D at 1 forever, have to have it if you don't have an anchor. However, even the best 1 defender can't deny dribble penetration forever. You still need an anchor as the last line of defense.

Quote:
Another vision…

Entering the summer the Lakers acknowledge that change is needed but not an overhaul, just a piece away. Fans cling to some what if series moment (a la the missed rebound vs. Phoenix) as justification for status quo. Rumors of KG are rampant but Minnesota refuses to deal him. A few rumors of JO or Gasol fizzle. Nothing happens.

Heading into the draft lot of rumor talk leaguewide, including LA’s willingness to part with the pick and Kwame’s last year contract for a quality point guard. Rumors of Andre Miller, maybe an S&T deal for Mo Williams and a bad contract, or Jarrett Jack. Nothing happens.

The draft if they keep the pick nets a tri fit, maybe a 2-way player like Brandon Rush, maybe Stuckey, maybe Afflalo in the second round. Laker fans are happy with the picks and predicting a division title, ignoring that Phoenix added Horford or Noah.

Kobe plays for the national team in the Americas tournament. The lack of downtime leads to some knick knack injuries down the road.

Free agency and hopes of signing Charlie Bell, but the Bucks match MLE offers to automatically keep him. The MLE is saved in case a vet is bought out. Maybe they sign Steve Francis if he's bought out, but Franchise is not one of Phil's faves.

Lakers re-sign Walton and Mihm, and due to striking out in their attempts to land a 1 re-sign Smush. Talk of an open competition at 1 between Smush and Farmar. Talk of Bynum looking good.

Same team takes the floor for opening night that ended the season. The let them gel crowd is in rapture, the get Kobe help now crowd is ready for a 12-state shooting spree, beginning with the let them gel crowd.

Lakers do well, Kobe goes down now and then but not for long stretches. Finish in 2nd in the division, 5 or 6 seed. 2nd round exit. Let them gel preaches more of same, management still mired in committee obliges. Lot of games for Kobe in the Olympic summer, more knick knacks, deeper exits...and no rings.

To make a championship omelette you have to be willing to break some eggs. They’re not. So it’s let them gel, your wish is granted. And it fails. Bynum improves but remains inconsistent. The defensive holes are addressed via internal development and it all takes too long. Kobe's national team commitments catch up to his health.

Maybe it won't be that bleak. I sure hope not. But nothing happening seems far more likely than something happening.

Agree with everything.

We will never win a ring this way.

Last edited by Soccer10 : 03-29-2007 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:33 PM   #36
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurple
Isn't LO our leading rebounder and our 2nd leading assists? Folks should keep in mind that playing along side Kobe is not easy (ask Caron Butler). That player has to contribute in multiple ways since Kobe is the #1 option. How does a #1 option (Gasol, Jo, KG) handle becoming the #2? Does he contribute in other ways? LO does.


Caron as a 2nd option to Kobe averaged 22 ppg in like 20 games or so.

Stop blaming Kobe. It's not his fault. It's Odom.

Gasol, JO or KG would do much better than Odom. What kind of a stupid question is that?

They all fit Kobe much better and they're all much better scorers than Odom and they bring things to the table that Odom doesn't and it's not just scoring. It's balance, defense, everything.

Silly question.

So now it's Kobe's fault, awesome.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:37 PM   #37
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Just to point something out, as a Lakers fan and a Wiz fan, I can be the first to say that Caron has improved DRAMATICALLY since his Laker days. It's not like Kobe stunted him or anything like that, when he first came to Washington, and in his first season as a Wizard, he wasn't nearly as good as he is now.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccer10
Caron as a 2nd option to Kobe averaged 22 ppg in like 20 games or so.

Stop blaming Kobe. It's not his fault. It's Odom.

Gasol, JO or KG would do much better than Odom. What kind of a stupid question is that?

They all fit Kobe much better and they're all much better scorers than Odom and they bring things to the table that Odom doesn't and it's not just scoring. It's balance, defense, everything.

Silly question.

So now it's Kobe's fault, awesome.

who said it is Kobe's fault? It's not anybody's fault. Kobe is the #1 option and WILL BE no matter who comes in. KG for example has been the #1, #2, and #3 Option. How will he perform as the #2? you don't know. It's a risk management has to assess. As for Butler, he was useless. He stood around watching Kobe do his thing. Walton does a MUCH better job playing beside Kobe than Butler ever did. Why? Because Walton does more off the ball (and even with the ball).
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

I dont look at Odom as a second option. I dont really see the point in naming people as #1 #2 and #3. This is a team game afterall and Lamars a team player, I mean look at the Mavs and Suns, they have multiple "#2" guys. If were going to do that, I say this team should have 3 #2 options and Lamar should be one of them, we shouldnt replace him. While Lamar and Kobe dont quite get it done together as it stands now, I think if we solved our PG problem he would fit in perfectly. Kobe Luke Lamar + a good point guard would be more than enough.

The way I see it theres basically 2 ways to win a championship. Either assemble a great team with 1 star (Mavs), or have 2 stars with a decent/good team (KobeShaq/ShaqWade). Lamar fits the first to a T.

Last edited by Devientz : 03-29-2007 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Bynum = Scott Williams
Kwame = Ho Grant
Luke Walton = Kukoc
Ronny Turiaf = Cliff Levingston = 2 giggling bench clowns
Odom = Pippen
Kobe = MJ
Blake = BJ Armstrong


-"Sign me!"
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:16 PM   #41
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Bynum = Scott Williams
Kwame = Ho Grant
Luke Walton = Kukoc
Ronny Turiaf = Cliff Levingston = 2 giggling bench clowns
Odom = Pippen
Kobe = MJ
Blake = BJ Armstrong


-"Sign me!"


I'm not sure why but I laughed my ass off at this.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:18 PM   #42
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Bynum = Scott Williams
Kwame = Ho Grant
Luke Walton = Kukoc
Ronny Turiaf = Cliff Levingston = 2 giggling bench clowns
Odom = Pippen
Kobe = MJ
Blake = BJ Armstrong


-"Sign me!"

As a Laker fan, I can only say that I WISH those comparisons were valid!
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:45 PM   #43
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

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Originally Posted by Targus™

Are you saying Kwame expiring 9 mil contract and Farmar for Bibby!!

And for the heck of it Vlad two first rd picks for the unstable Artest!!

But Bibby would fit good with the Laker's!!!!
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurple
As a Laker fan, I can only say that I WISH those comparisons were valid!
i wish we'd had grant, kukoc, pippen, and jordan all at the same time.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: Should the Lakers acquire a vet point gaurd this offseason?

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Originally Posted by dejordan
i wish we'd had grant, kukoc, pippen, and jordan all at the same time.

or that the current Lakers are the equivalent.
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