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Old 03-29-2007, 10:16 AM   #16
Knoe Itawl
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakerfan1-Iceland
I hate it when people are so on his **** that they fail to recognice that ANYONE wil ever become a better player, or refuse to believe ANYTHING negative about this man.
For instance when he is mentioned as a good teamate and a player who made other players around him better like say Bird,Magic and Isiah did is a load of bull.

He did not make his teamates better, his game did not revolve around that, he was a scorer and a wery wery wery sore loser who had a great all around player in pippen with him along with great coaching staff and management who put the right type of players around him.
He is no doupt among the all time greatest, top 3 definatly i think but there is NO nba player Perfect and Jordan was FAR from perfect!

Actually, most reasonable people don't think it's impossible that someone could come along and be better than him, it's just that people with extensive knowledge of his game/achievements aren't going to just hand it over to another player unless someone truly EARNS it. So far that hasn't happened. When it does, then I'm sure plenty of people would recognize it. Not before then though. And that's how it SHOULD be. You SHOULD have to accomplish a hell of a lot before you can be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan.

Also, Jordan was far more than just a scorer. There's a reason why it was popular wisdom that high scorers couldn't lead teams to championships until Mike came along.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:21 AM   #17
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Being born in 1990 I never watched him play for the bulls so its hard to say he the goat when I have never seen him play.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakerfan1-Iceland
I newer was a fan of his, i didnt like the hype and everything about him.
Also i was a Laker and Magic fan and Jordans playing stile didnt appeal to me he was selfish,egotistical and generally just unlikable.

But thats when i was a kid,90-95 10-15 years old you dont know **** and are ignorent as hell at that age.
But i started to respect him more and more and no doupt he is among the greatest ever.
But this over the top IDOLIZATION people have of him(and any other superstar for that matter) i wont ever understand.

I hate it when people are so on his **** that they fail to recognice that ANYONE wil ever become a better player, or refuse to believe ANYTHING negative about this man.
For instance when he is mentioned as a good teamate and a player who made other players around him better like say Bird,Magic and Isiah did is a load of bull.

He did not make his teamates better, his game did not revolve around that, he was a scorer and a wery wery wery sore loser who had a great all around player in pippen with him along with great coaching staff and management who put the right type of players around him.
He is no doupt among the all time greatest, top 3 definatly i think but there is NO nba player Perfect and Jordan was FAR from perfect!

Wow, uhhh..... I don't know what reality your living in but Jordan wasn't just a scorer, and he did make his teammates better. Pippen would not be THE Pippen if it wasn't for Jordan, and it goes the other way too. But to say he is just a scorer is just ignorance to the true beauty of his game, and that is he controlled every aspect. We idolize him because he is Michael, the GOAT.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Actually, most reasonable people don't think it's impossible that someone could come along and be better than him, it's just that people with extensive knowledge of his game/achievements aren't going to just hand it over to another player unless someone truly EARNS it. So far that hasn't happened. When it does, then I'm sure plenty of people would recognize it. Not before then though. And that's how it SHOULD be. You SHOULD have to accomplish a hell of a lot before you can be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan.

Also, Jordan was far more than just a scorer. There's a reason why it was popular wisdom that high scorers couldn't lead teams to championships until Mike came along.

Yeah most reasonable people should think that but somehow SO many people i thought were reasonable actually think of him as some sort of God, i guess the media created a lot of it.
Mike was a great player no doupt about that but he wasnt perfect and mentioning someone in the same breath is not something that is wrong, Mike set a standard, a bar if you will and people are gonna be compared to him allways weather they like it or not.
Is it a high standard hell yeah, do many if any life up to it? Hardly.
But saying someone is better than Jordan at a certain points of the game is not wrong to do, cause he wasnt perfect and he wasnt best at EVERYTHING.

But generally i dont agree with comparing players of diffirent times and eras together unless it is just for fun, specially when the players dont even play the same position on a team.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

I'm sure everyone has 'hated Jordan' at some point for beating their team.
But you don't truly hate him.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:33 AM   #21
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakerfan1-Iceland
Yeah most reasonable people should think that but somehow SO many people i thought were reasonable actually think of him as some sort of God, i guess the media created a lot of it.
Mike was a great player no doupt about that but he wasnt perfect and mentioning someone in the same breath is not something that is wrong, Mike set a standard, a bar if you will and people are gonna be compared to him allways weather they like it or not.
Is it a high standard hell yeah, do many if any life up to it? Hardly.
But saying someone is better than Jordan at a certain points of the game is not wrong to do, cause he wasnt perfect and he wasnt best at EVERYTHING.

But generally i dont agree with comparing players of diffirent times and eras together unless it is just for fun, specially when the players dont even play the same position on a team.

Never, not yet, there is no one who can live up to being compared with Jordan right now. Adn it's a shame because for guys like Lebron, or Kobe, who are tagged as the Second Coming it's a bar that if they don't reach they fail. The media makes them out to be dissapointments because they're not Mike.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
He did not make his teamates better, his game did not revolve around that, he was a scorer and a wery wery wery sore loser who had a great all around player in pippen with him along with great coaching staff and management who put the right type of players around him.
He is no doupt among the all time greatest, top 3 definatly i think but there is NO nba player Perfect and Jordan was FAR from perfect!

not to pile on, but Mj was indeed a good teammate....No, he was a great teammate... He helped develop Pippen into the player he became and he made sure his teammates were ready to compete thru his leadership in practice as well as in games..

he may not have always been a nice or pleasant teammate, but its absurd to say that a guy who led his teams to 6 championships was not a good teammate
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
not to pile on, but Mj was indeed a good teammate....No, he was a great teammate... He helped develop Pippen into the player he became and he made sure his teammates were ready to compete thru his leadership in practice as well as in games..

he may not have always been a nice or pleasant teammate, but its absurd to say that a guy who led his teams to 6 championships was not a good teammate

exactly. the way he went about it may have been tough in a way, but he always put it on himself as a leader to raise the overall level of his teammates and make sure that they were maximizing their potential.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
exactly. the way he went about it may have been tough in a way, but he always put it on himself as a leader to raise the overall level of his teammates and make sure that they were maximizing their potential.

I recently read that someone had ranked the most determined people in the country and it turned out like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Tiger Woods
3. Will Smith (no joke!)
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Yeah after watching his 1st 3 peat I automatically started giving him all the respect and saying he was the best. But then he beat the Sonics, I really wanted him to lose that one. And I was all for the Jazz the next 2 years. And that was 2 more years I saw the teams I wanted to win lose. IT was sad.

But after he retired again, I somehow just started liking him again and considering him the GOAT. Alot of respect now. Though I'll admit, I was against Jordan on his 2nd comeback
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Arguably Tiger or Beckham, though it's not like all those people who knew Jordan back then just all of a sudden forgot his name. Jordan is still immensely popular, about a year ago or so he went to China and pandemonium ensued.


That's were I live, Hong Kong. Trust me, grab a random guy off the street, ask him who is Michael Jordan and who is Kobe, he'll tell you Jordan was a basketball player and Kobe is some sort of beef.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
I recently read that someone had ranked the most determined people in the country and it turned out like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Tiger Woods
3. Will Smith (no joke!)

wow, they must have ranked this after watching the pursuit of happyness.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:57 AM   #28
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakerfan1-Iceland
I newer was a fan of his, i didnt like the hype and everything about him.
Also i was a Laker and Magic fan and Jordans playing stile didnt appeal to me he was selfish,egotistical and generally just unlikable.

But thats when i was a kid,90-95 10-15 years old you dont know **** and are ignorent as hell at that age.
But i started to respect him more and more and no doupt he is among the greatest ever.
But this over the top IDOLIZATION people have of him(and any other superstar for that matter) i wont ever understand.

I hate it when people are so on his **** that they fail to recognice that ANYONE wil ever become a better player, or refuse to believe ANYTHING negative about this man.
For instance when he is mentioned as a good teamate and a player who made other players around him better like say Bird,Magic and Isiah did is a load of bull.

He did not make his teamates better, his game did not revolve around that, he was a scorer and a wery wery wery sore loser who had a great all around player in pippen with him along with great coaching staff and management who put the right type of players around him.

He is no doupt among the all time greatest, top 3 definatly i think but there is NO nba player Perfect and Jordan was FAR from perfect!
i think you could say that about magic and thomas too (maybe not bird who was crazy adjustable to talent), but if you look at magic's most successful years, he always had the same basic set-up in teammates: fast fowards and athletic guards with good js, scoring centers in the half-court and good defenders off the bench. jordan on the other hand had vastly different supporting casts between his two championship teams. i've gone over this a ton of times, but i'll just say harper, rodman, longley, and kukoc are totally different players than paxson, grant, cartwright, and bj - different strengths, different games, different everything. the offense and defense changed dramatically (as did michael's skills), but he & scottie 3-peated with both.

in terms of the concept of "making others better" no one actually does that except maybe in practice. jordan probably made his teammates better by challenging them in practice and keeping their competitiveness and concentration high (and there was an interesting video that came out in 2001 that showed how much of scottie's game was move for move taken from mj. very cool to see them side by side). but jordan didn't make paxson a better jumpshooter any more than magic made scott one. what they both did was to remove other responsibilities from those players so they could focus on just doing their jobs (playing their role if you will). was magic a better passer? sure. did he help his running teammates more than mj would have? definitely. they both tended to off balance the defense in the half court and create easy swing and post opportunities for their centers. they both tended to draw traps in the high post and make great dump down passes to big guys. jordan was better at getting into the paint and drawing backline help to open the offensive boards for his bigs. he was also able to switch from pg to sg to sf on defense allowing pjax to play guys like paxson or kukoc out of position without getting burned for it defensively (which is the same luxury that michael cooper gave the lakers).

imo the way a player makes others better is by simplifying the game and allowing them to concentrate on their strengths and not have to play to their weaknesses. jordan did this as well as anyone in the 90s. in the 80s he tried to do too much and didn't even allow his teammates to get involved sometimes, but under pjax he was a brilliant teammate.

anyway i respect the fact that you got over your dislike of mj to respect him. i had to do the same thing for magic and isiah because i grew up a bulls / celts fan and despised them both, but now i can say without question that magic is the GOAT PG and isiah is very high on the list. i actually like magic now (pretty much came around on him during the olympics) but i'm not a big fan of his announcing.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:58 AM   #29
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
Never, not yet, there is no one who can live up to being compared with Jordan right now. Adn it's a shame because for guys like Lebron, or Kobe, who are tagged as the Second Coming it's a bar that if they don't reach they fail. The media makes them out to be dissapointments because they're not Mike.


Argreed, that's the worst thing about media attention these days. Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter were all called the second Jordan at some point in their career, and look at them now, not one of them receives as much attention as Kobe, Wade, James, and so in the public's eye they've become disappointments.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:58 AM   #30
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
wow, they must have ranked this after watching the pursuit of happyness.



Yeah I thought so too, but then I read some interviews and Will Smith is one determined mutha' I think they asked him about the Rubiks cube scene in the movie, adn that's how it came up about his determinism. When asked if he was the most determined guy he knew he said "No that would Michael Jordan"
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