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Old 03-30-2007, 09:44 AM   #106
dejordan
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by Soccer10
Jordan perhaps wasn't hated but you need to factor in that there was no internet at the time and the media wasn't as bad as today etc.
They easily could've created a different image about Jordan.

However, what I've heard is that he was criticized in the 80's for being a ballhog and a guy who can't make people around him better.
Obviously, I can't speak to that because I wasn't even born during his first few seasons but I've also read some stuff.

Is it also true that once a reporter asked him why he doesn't make players around him better and he responded with "gimme better players"..or something like that?

I've heard many people say that what Jordan was going through in the 80's is somewhat simliar to what Kobe's going through now.

Didn't Jordan become all that when he beat the Lakers? I dunno, just what I've heard..

back in the day the big thing was that bird and magic made their teams better and jordan didn't. and 24 year old jordan's response was: give me james worthy and kareem and we'll see if i make them better. it was an ignorant statement really and you could see that he really respected both bird and magic by the way his game changed the next couple years, trying to pass more and shoot less like they did, but i don't think he really got the concept of empowering his teammates to take on responsibilities and believe in themselves until phil jackson got there. bird and magic seemed to have an innate understanding of that aspect of team ball. of course the veteran players they played with were better and required less leadership but it was very clear that magic and larry were exemplary leaders.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:09 AM   #107
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by dejordan
back in the day the big thing was that bird and magic made their teams better and jordan didn't. and 24 year old jordan's response was: give me james worthy and kareem and we'll see if i make them better. it was an ignorant statement really and you could see that he really respected both bird and magic by the way his game changed the next couple years, trying to pass more and shoot less like they did, but i don't think he really got the concept of empowering his teammates to take on responsibilities and believe in themselves until phil jackson got there. bird and magic seemed to have an innate understanding of that aspect of team ball. of course the veteran players they played with were better and required less leadership but it was very clear that magic and larry were exemplary leaders.

Thanks.

So you see, it pretty much was a very similiar situation.

BTW, that was a beatiful quote by MJ and so true.

I hate this whole "making your teammates better" argument. It's the biggest crap in the world.

Wonderful quote by MJ.

BTW IMO, MJ > Magic. Won more with less, was more impressive..and I also have a bias for shoot first over pass first players...although just now I'm coming to my senses.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:14 AM   #108
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
People don't have to like Kobe Bryant, or any other professional athlete. When you get to the point of being this into defending him you need to take a step back. He's not your friend, your family member or anyone you even KNOW. He's an athlete, and in athletics there are people that people root for and people that people don't root for. Stop being one of those weird fans that get too involved in their favorite athletes.

Omg the IRONY of this. This guy is the absolute LAST person who should lecture on being too involved with a sports athlete.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:23 AM   #109
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccer10
Thanks.

So you see, it pretty much was a very similiar situation.

BTW, that was a beatiful quote by MJ and so true.

I hate this whole "making your teammates better" argument. It's the biggest crap in the world.

Wonderful quote by MJ.

BTW IMO, MJ > Magic. Won more with less, was more impressive..and I also have a bias for shoot first over pass first players...although just now I'm coming to my senses.
mj's quote was true to a point, but i don't think he was better than magic or bird when he said it. he honestly didn't start trusting his teammates completely until phil jackson taught him to. maybe that's because he didn't have any star quality players other than oakley until scottie and grant started to develop, but i think it's more that he didn't understand the value of having role players with high confidence and strong minds under pressure. when he got that he changed from just trying to weed out the weak ones in practive to trying to instill determination and mental toughness (pippen's collapse against detroit may have helped him learn this as well):

"Kerr: Michael had put so much pressure on us all year that whatever we faced in the playoffs wasn’t going to bother us. Every practice through all year just continued the intensity, and when you have Michael you pretty much think you’re going to win every game. So he took so much of the pressure off just by being himself."

as for mj being better than magic, i agree but for a different reason. yes mj did more with less, but he didn't have to beat the loaded 6ers or Celts teams to do it (though the bulls did sweep the pistons in 91 that was two years after detroit beat la in the finals). the talent on magic's team was more necessary because his rivals had the same kind of firepower. i would say the only major point of defining point between michael and magic is the defensive end, where magic was a mediocre one on one defender who couldn't really cover his position and required either a second pg or a very quick sg on the floor with him (much like iverson needs a big pg when he plays the 2), though he was a good attacker of passing lanes. jordan was one of the preeminent perimeter defenders of all time. that's a significant difference between two guards who could both basically create points for their teams at will.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:26 AM   #110
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by Soccer10
Trust me, as a Jordan fan you absolutley have nothing to complain about.

?????



What do you mean?
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:29 AM   #111
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by dejordan
as for mj being better than magic, i agree but for a different reason. yes mj did more with less, but he didn't have to beat the loaded 6ers or Celts teams to do it (though the bulls did sweep the pistons in 91 that was two years after detroit beat la in the finals). the talent on magic's team was more necessary because his rivals had the same kind of firepower. i would say the only major point of defining point between michael and magic is the defensive end, where magic was a mediocre one on one defender who couldn't really cover his position and required either a second pg or a very quick sg on the floor with him (much like iverson needs a big pg when he plays the 2), though he was a good attacker of passing lanes. jordan was one of the preeminent perimeter defenders of all time. that's a significant difference between two guards who could both basically create points for their teams at will.

well said. the comp in the 80's was much stronger than the 90's. many HOFers on one team before expansion.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:37 AM   #112
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by allball
well said. the comp in the 80's was much stronger than the 90's. many HOFers on one team before expansion.
yeah, expansion and free agency changed everything. people don't realize what it means to have a bunch of talented vets playing together for a very long time. the chemistry that develops can be amazing.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM   #113
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
yeah, expansion and free agency changed everything. people don't realize what it means to have a bunch of talented vets playing together for a very long time. the chemistry that develops can be amazing.

They actually had a piece with Coach K talking about this in the college sport. He said he doesn't believe anyone will be as good as his Duke team that went back to back because now kids bolt for the NBA in their Soph, Junior year. So the team can't develop like they used to. Interesting stuff.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:47 AM   #114
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

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Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
They actually had a piece with Coach K talking about this in the college sport. He said he doesn't believe anyone will be as good as his Duke team that went back to back because now kids bolt for the NBA in their Soph, Junior year. So the team can't develop like they used to. Interesting stuff.
was that the team with hurley, laettner, and hill? that was a devastating squad.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:50 AM   #115
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Default Re: How many of you DIDN'T like Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
was that the team with hurley, laettner, and hill? that was a devastating squad.

Yeah, ad I don't think we've ever seen a team like it, except mabey Michigan's fab 5, but they all left after their sophmore year so....
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