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Old 03-30-2007, 09:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesoanarchy
Soccer10-

"The writer is clearly biased and is using some weird arguments/assumptions to make Kobe look good but I thought the article was interesting.

People underestimate Kobe's mental toughness and everything he had to go through in the NBA.

Why is it that no one is talking about how Shaq hated Kobe, was jelous of him and was trying to make his life miserable?"


----------------

I'm sorry to have to say that I don't use anything other than what has been said about Kobe, Phil, and Shaq - "weird 'arguments/assumptions" - hmmm. "Clearly biased?" I went into writing this with a healthy respect for Jackson and Shaq, though I knew there was much more going on behind the scenes than what we've been told by the media.

And the next two sentences of yours perfectly explain what the article is about so I really don't understand why you wrote them as if that isn't what I did?

gts- thank you.

hollabolla- It's sometimes difficult to remember that Kobe is already an 11-year vet!

bokes 15 and cool-Steve Kerr, over at Yahoo! Sports wrote earlier this week: "Kobe is the most complete offensive player ever." If anyone can testify to MJ's greatness, it's Kerr. So for him to lay that accolade at the feet of KB carries with it the weight of the world.

wild orchid- might you expound on why my column is so ridiculous? And please don't any of you think I'm here to argue. I am curious about responses like yours wild orchid. If you can substantiate your claim, then I can learn from you and take this with me for the next piece I write.

Thanks to all of you for having a voice on Kobe Bryant as he is one of the most polarizing figures in sports today - and thanks for using my column piece to air yout thoughts and feelings. I'll check in periodically tonight and tomorrow to see what's been written.... if anyone has a question about my piece, do feel free to ask.

Again, thank you.

peace,
D-Wil

My comment was a joke.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

I will say the even Kobe can't come close to being as overrated as VC was in Toronto, but I can only imagine if Kobe gets one ring with him at the helm. You know that will give some of his fans enough confidence to take the final step, that even they have been hesitant to take so far, and proclaim Kobe the hands down GOAT.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

I find it hard to believe you thoroughly researched this article and came away with the conclusion Kobe is merely the victim of Phil and Shaq's conspiracy to control Kobe's dominance.
When I read this article I do not get the impression that you are the least bit objective. I read this sigh and think to myself, another Kobe Bryant stan or maybe a Kobe Bryant employee. You are not interested in the truth. You set out to portray Kobe in a positive light, truth be damned.
People don't hate Kobe because he said he wanted to be great. That's what he is supposed to say. Most athletes say they want to be great or the greatest but they don't get maligned for making a grandiose statement.
Kobe's problem was not Phil, it was not Shaq it was not the media's love for Shaq. Kobe's problem was the man in the mirror.
If you had done your research you would find Kobe's hands are far from clean.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

^ It's true that Shaq hated Kobe and wanted to make his life as miserable as possible.

Plenty of people confirmed that. Jerry West, Kurt Rambis, Tex Winter..

Quote:
“The other players on the team wanted to make sure [Kobe] earned everything he got, that the coach didn’t just give him something just because the fans wanted to see this young phenom play,” recalled Del Harris, Bryant’s first coach with the Lakers.

That was especially true of Shaquille O’Neal, the game’s dominant young center who felt immense pressure to win championships. Each season his dislike of Bryant had grown.

“What surprised me about Shaquille during our early days in Los Angeles was how frustrated he got,” said former Lakers GM Jerry West. “He was not fun to be around. The shortcomings of our team and his teammates made him angry because he knew he was going to be judged on how much we won.”

How angry?

Just months before Jackson arrived, O’Neal had slapped Bryant during a pickup game at the Laker practice facility.

“It would not be forgotten,” former Laker guard Derek Fisher said of the incident.

When Jackson and his coaching staff began work in Los Angeles, they were caught off guard by O’Neal’s level of animosity toward Bryant.

“There was a lot of hatred in his heart,” Tex Winter said of O’Neal. “he would speak his mind in our team meetings. He was saying really hateful things. Kobe just took it and kept going.


Quote:
For instance, here Winter:
"Phil was dealing with two mighty big egos. But in my mind I blamed Shaq more than Kobe. Kobe tried to sacrifice. Kobe tried to please Shaq, because Kobe realized the team's effectiveness began with Shaq. But if you look at Shaq's quotes in the paper, it was always me, me, me. Give me the ball. It's my team, my city. Shaq is a wonderful person in a lot of ways. He's very compassionate, very generous. He has a great sense of humor. But he's moody; he's unpredictable. And he's very self-centered."

Quote:
Rambis reasoned that O'Neal should change his attitude because he was the team leader, the one player capable of pulling the team together. You can heal this rift; you can reach out to Kobe, Rambis told his center. Bryant was young and hardworking and just learning the game, the coach pointed out, and the center should make a move to reconcile with him. The coach later recalled that O'Neal's only answer was a blank, cold stare. Nothing more. That, Rambis would come to understand in retrospect, would be the moment, his one chance to heal the relationship, to bring an end to the team's deep division.




Like I said, I disagree with many things in that article but Kobe definitely didn't have it easy as a youngster.

If he was as fragile as say Kwame Brown riight now he'd be along with Britney in a rehab.

Last edited by Soccer10 : 03-30-2007 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

This is a one star thread for a reason.
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:04 AM   #21
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

wild orchid - To say that I didn't thoroughly research my piece is odd, but that's okay. I'm sorry if I came across like a "Kobe employee." However, people seem to forget that when Lazenby talked to KB (my first quote from Roland) KB was 20! and Shaq, apparently had been messing with KB's head from day one. How is a 17-year old supposed to react to what Shaq apparently was attempting to do to Bryant - or Phil? How about an 18-year old? Or 19? Or 20?

We're talking about a kid, not some 25-30-year old vet. The mention of KB's name leads people to lose all perspective (which is my opening thought to the piece)....


bokes 15 - The KB/MJ comparisons stem from the obvious similarities in their games. As Lazenby once said, Kobe came along too close to Jordan for his game to be seen for what it is. LeBron is the first player to come along to almost avoid many of the MJ comparisons. As far as the Kerr quote goes: I didn't read anything into Kerr's quote. I merely said that Kerr's statement carries with it a lot of weight. It also illustrates just how much present and past players - even MJ's teammates - think of KB's game. To say any part of KB's game is better than MJ's is seen as blasphemous - and I don't get that.
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:17 AM   #22
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradMiller52
Does any of this stuff ever get posted in the Laker forum? There's a forum for this stuff.

Agreed. This homer trash belongs in the Laker Forum.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

I'm at the halfway point of finishing reading this article, and none of what young Kobe was said to have endured in the NBA surprises me.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: Pretty good article on Kobe's road to greatness (long though)

[quote=mesoanarchy]wild orchid - To say that I didn't thoroughly research my piece is odd, but that's okay. I'm sorry if I came across like a "Kobe employee." However, people seem to forget that when Lazenby talked to KB (my first quote from Roland) KB was 20! and Shaq, apparently had been messing with KB's head from day one. How is a 17-year old supposed to react to what Shaq apparently was attempting to do to Bryant - or Phil? How about an 18-year old? Or 19? Or 20?

We're talking about a kid, not some 25-30-year old vet. The mention of KB's name leads people to lose all perspective (which is my opening thought to the piece)....

Lazenby seems to have a selective memory. Shaq reached out to Kobe when he came into the league and offered to be a big brother to Kobe. Other players have confirmed this. According to them Kobe wanted no part of Shaq. Devean George, Rick Fox and others went on the record shortly after Shaq was traded stating they never saw the anomosity between Shaq and Kobe that was portrayed by some people.

Magic Johnson also said he reached out to Kobe in the early years. He said Kobe pretty much gave him the brush off too. After the Karl Malone scandal he reached out to Kobe again feeling that Kobe may be more receptive this time.

I don't doubt that Kobe has snakes surrounding him but they are not the people you think. The snakes surrounding Kobe are people guised as friends and allies. Phil Jackson's book portrays Kobe as a narcacisstic prick. No one from the Lakers organization has ever refuted what Jackson had to say about Kobe in that book, not Jeannie Buss, not Mitch Kupchak and I believe Dr. Buss is on record saying 90% of the book is accurate. Even Phil Jackson, who now says he wants to help Kobe because he feels his book was one of the reasons Kobe's image was at an all time low still stands by every word he wrote in that book.
Kobe is merely a product to some people. Like all products once he serves the owners purpose he will be thrown by the wayside.
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