Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2007, 02:57 PM   #31
RidonKs
NBA Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Free Hat!
Posts: 17,420
RidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
Well, the fact that DWade was able to win a title with a shaq who was FAR less productive than during the three-peat years certainly gives credence to that theory.

You missed my point completely. Wade deserves a ton of credit for his chip too, even with some people (who're wrong IMO) saying that Shaq was more instramental to that team's success than he was.

Notice how I didn't mention Dwyane in my post? I'm saying people are constantly saying Tmac/Iverson/Peirce/Vince would've stepped it up and won with Shaq during those years just like Kobe did, when there's no real evidence to suppport that.
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 02:57 PM   #32
hotsizzle
Superstar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: WINNING!
Posts: 9,850
hotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
You need to come off this. So what if Kobe had some big games in the playoffs? No one said he didn't. Kobe fans always come up with this "Well, well Kobe had some big games too!" stuff as if anyone ever suggested he didn't. That's not the point. The point is that during those title runs, Shaq was the heavy lifter, the MVP, the leader, etc. etc. NOT Kobe.

Pippen had big games, Mchale had big games, Worthy had big games, Manu's had big games, etc. etc.

Still didn't make them the leaders/MVPs of their teams. Get it?

He isn't talking about MVPs. Hes targeting the little respect Bryant gets for his first 8 years in the league despite him being successful.
hotsizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 02:58 PM   #33
bleedinpurple
Decent college freshman
 
bleedinpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC & Phoenix
Posts: 1,982
bleedinpurple has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Well, the fact that DWade was able to win a title with a shaq who was FAR less productive than during the three-peat years certainly gives credence to that theory.

I remember when Bryant fans were saying that Wade would NEVER win with Shaq and that Shaq would NEVER win another title without Kobe.

It certainly isn't unreasonable to suggest that if Wade could win a title with Shaq putting up 12ppg in the FINALS (compared to 30+ppg during the title years, not to mention being more intimidating on defense, rebounding better and just flat out being a better player) that another elite sg type could've won at least a couple of titles with him. MVP year Iverson? Orlando TMac? Neither of them would've stood a chance of doing so?

very true. it isn't unreasonable to suggest that another elite SG "could've".
Alas, we will never know. It's all mere speculation. Wade's performance was absolutely surreal in carrying Shaq and the rest of the Heat. Could another elite SG do that? Maybe.

But RidonK's point remains valid...we don't know if they could pull that off, wo it's nothing but mere speculation. We DO KNOW that Wade and Kobe pulled off great performances when called upon to do so.
bleedinpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 02:58 PM   #34
RidonKs
NBA Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Free Hat!
Posts: 17,420
RidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
You need to come off this. So what if Kobe had some big games in the playoffs? No one said he didn't. Kobe fans always come up with this "Well, well Kobe had some big games too!" stuff as if anyone ever suggested he didn't. That's not the point. The point is that during those title runs, Shaq was the heavy lifter, the MVP, the leader, etc. etc. NOT Kobe.

Pippen had big games, Mchale had big games, Worthy had big games, Manu's had big games, etc. etc.

Still didn't make them the leaders/MVPs of their teams. Get it?

I don't see what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to convince me that Shaq was the leader of those Laker teams, and Kobe wasn't? Mission accomplished. (That's the first time I've ever used that smiley.)
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 02:59 PM   #35
Rasheed1
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Rasheed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 10,507
Rasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
I've heard this, and it makes sense, but we still get a lot of people completely dismissing Kobe's first 8 years as if, like Soccer said, his career only started 2.5 years ago.

I dont dismiss his first 8 years... I just dont see how you can quantify it in comparison to other players individually..

I know Kobe was on the 2000-2003 Dynasty Lakers teams, but when comparing him to Wade....how do you say who is the better player?

I mean won 3 as the #2 guy and Wade won 1 as the #1 guy... Whose accomplishment was better?

its sort of apples and oranges when comparing individuals... So I stick to similar situations and Kobe has a sample of those (it is a small sample but still)
Rasheed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 03:01 PM   #36
RidonKs
NBA Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Free Hat!
Posts: 17,420
RidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRidonKs is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

I get what you're trying to say Rasheed. Although I don't think Kobe's team and Wade's team from last year are all that comparable. :)
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 03:02 PM   #37
Knoe Itawl
Bringer of Light
 
Knoe Itawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,222
Knoe Itawl has not been impressing people
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
You missed my point completely. Wade deserves a ton of credit for his chip too, even with some people (who're wrong IMO) saying that Shaq was more instramental to that team's success than he was.

Notice how I didn't mention Dwyane in my post? I'm saying people are constantly saying Tmac/Iverson/Peirce/Vince would've stepped it up and won with Shaq during those years just like Kobe did, when there's no real evidence to suppport that.

The evidence to support that is just how much of a MONSTER Shaq was during those years. I think Wade deserves plenty of credit for winning a title with Shaq's production dipping to what it did.

If Wade can win with a far inferior Shaq, why is it so insulting to suggest that those guys, who were as good or better than Wade during that time, would be able to win with the beast Shaq with a great supporting cast, coached by Phil?

Again, I fail to see how that's so unreasonable. I never said it definitely would have happened, because this is speculation, however it's certainly not some outlandish theory.

Last edited by Knoe Itawl : 03-29-2007 at 03:08 PM.
Knoe Itawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 03:09 PM   #38
bleedinpurple
Decent college freshman
 
bleedinpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC & Phoenix
Posts: 1,982
bleedinpurple has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

I think you guys are saying more-or-less the same thing...it's speculation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Knoe is NOT saying that those other players WOULD have won, but MAY have won. OK, maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
But RidonK is saying Kobe and Wade DID win and played hugely clutch ball. We KNOW what they accomplished and those accomplishments should not be dismissed (or otherwise belittled) by mere speculation of what others may or may not have been able to do.
bleedinpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 03:10 PM   #39
Knoe Itawl
Bringer of Light
 
Knoe Itawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,222
Knoe Itawl has not been impressing people
Default Re: Some of my thoughts on Kobe..just remembered some old arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
I don't see what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to convince me that Shaq was the leader of those Laker teams, and Kobe wasn't? Mission accomplished. (That's the first time I've ever used that smiley.)

the point is that you were going on about Kobe coming up huge in huge situations and all that, and guess what? Other secondary stars have come up huge in certain situations as well. Iverson came up huge in situation after situation to get to the Finals that year. Vince dropped 50 in the playoffs back in those days. Pierce was cold blooded.

Difference? None of them had a prime Shaq on their team with one of the best coaches in NBA history and a great supporting cast behind them.
Knoe Itawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 06:15 PM   #40
Top_Of_Tha_World
High School Varsity 12th Man
 
Top_Of_Tha_World's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 542
Top_Of_Tha_World has an OK reputation so far
Default Kobe, No Love Even From Officials......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6rl4...elated&search=

Iunno if you guys remember this but Kobe gets manhandled and doesnt get any calls(in this game).

Last edited by Top_Of_Tha_World : 03-29-2007 at 06:30 PM.
Top_Of_Tha_World is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 06:21 PM   #41
bleedinpurple
Decent college freshman
 
bleedinpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC & Phoenix
Posts: 1,982
bleedinpurple has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe, No Love Even From Officials......

that may have been a poorly refed game, but Kobe gets his share of calls...as long as he takes to the basket.
nobody got the calls like Jordan.
bleedinpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 06:23 PM   #42
Top_Of_Tha_World
High School Varsity 12th Man
 
Top_Of_Tha_World's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 542
Top_Of_Tha_World has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe, No Love Even From Officials......

Real true. Jordan had the refs by the nuts
Top_Of_Tha_World is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 06:26 PM   #43
ALlArOuNDPIaya
Rational on Kobe
 
ALlArOuNDPIaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 467
ALlArOuNDPIaya has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe, No Love Even From Officials......

@Kobe not getting calls in general.

The leader of the league in phantom fouls doesn't get calls?!

Tell that to the Jazz.
ALlArOuNDPIaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 06:31 PM   #44
Top_Of_Tha_World
High School Varsity 12th Man
 
Top_Of_Tha_World's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 542
Top_Of_Tha_World has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe, No Love Even From Officials......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALlArOuNDPIaya
@Kobe not getting calls in general.

The leader of the league in phantom fouls doesn't get calls?!

Tell that to the Jazz.

I was talkin about this game itself. I swear that was one of the worst officiated(thats a word right?) games ive ever seen.
Top_Of_Tha_World is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 06:32 PM   #45
FashionIssues
Smooth Operator
 
FashionIssues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bay Area, Cali. Posts: 47,568
Posts: 4,876
FashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterFashionIssues is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Kobe, No Love Even From Officials......

<-- my weak shoulder will give me my edge back in phantom calls
FashionIssues is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy