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Old 12-15-2014, 06:31 AM   #16
HurricaneKid
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

I coached AAU for 3 years when my once proud Alma Mater had fallen on hard times. After 3 years I really only had a few kids that I thought would contribute at the next level. But one I had no question about. I got a frantic call from his mom out of the blue at the start of the following season. He had not only been cut from a team that didn't have 3 players better than him but the coach sat him down to explain that for some of the other kids basketball meant more and that for that reason he was going to take them. Kid took it really well. Said "how can you want to play for a coach that doesnt even care to have the best players on the TEAM. What else would he be compromising on? He handled it better than I am 5+ years later. I volunteered for years years to develop the kids and they were cut because a poor kid might not drop out of school if he makes the team?

It's insane to me how many ridiculous things happen to the kids because of the coaches and parents
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:52 PM   #17
Burgz V2
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

let him play at another school. I wouldn't want your son to lose a year of HS ball because some coach has a different basketball philosophy than what he is used to. Not your son's fault. I also coach basketball and have played at various levels including professionally, and I'll say this in defense of the coach. If the coach said your son is not the player he's looking for, then that means your son did a poor job showing the coach that he has the skill set necessary for the team he is putting together. Your son has to do a better job adapting to the needs of the coach, regardless of how prolific a player he is elsewhere. You will always encounter coaches with differing philosophies about basketball, but as a player you have to be able to adapt.

That being said, the coach's excuse is pretty weak. If your son is as good as you say, I'm not sure why he's not even on the bench, or doesn't feel your son is good enough to work with and develop into the player he likes.

If I were you i wouldn't waste your time. When I was in the ninth grade I went to a school I knew for sure I would make the team, because the team all my friends played for liked tall and super athletic guys and had yet to hit my growth spurt. By grade 11 I had grown about 8 inches and was dunking with ease, and we would mop the floor with that team everytime we played. Don't be afraid to send your son to another school, as long as the academics are good at that school
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

Interesting topic. Mostly good stuff so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunk75
my son was cut from jv this week as a 9th grader. he's been starting for a high level aau program for years and has been like a 21/8 point guard with good defense for years. we live in a very political district on long island and the feedback i got from the coach doesn't jive and doesn't even jive with what other coaches at the school haver told me. said aau is different my son doesn't shoot mid range, too many 3s, slashes and FTs not enough mid range shots. he is devastated and many of the parents were surprised that others made it over him. he's not sure he wants to stay here, if anything will change or if he should go play at one of the catholic schools that wanted him. here, it seems the best kids rarely make the teams.

any advice? i played baseball and coach basketball but never played competitively.
It's very, very tough to come to a certain conclusion without knowing the situation first hand. Still, I will say, AAU has often not served as a good reference piece for how good a player may be in our area. I've coached a number of players who dominated the up-and-down freewheeling AAU circuit but struggled a little with all that was necessary and required during the real season (more complicated schemes, more grinding).

From the information provided, it seems your son may be a solid ballplayer but again, it's tough to tell for sure. 21/8 are darn solid numbers if they're really at that level though, particularly in middle school games which tend to run at slightly slower paces with a lower amount of points scored.

In fact, if he's dropping 21/8 and still finding himself to be a borderline-making-the-team player, it kind of makes me wonder about the defensive structure within his AAU program. Namely, and I ask respectfully, was there any D? If not, that could point to one of the potential issues facing those players as they make the move to high school systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunk75
thanks, i think that's excellent advice. i spoke to the coach. it's interesting he told my son he needs to go to his left more and plays strong d while the coach told me that he is good with both hands but had trouble getting his own shot (he is not a catch and shoot player so i was confused by this) and he didn't play sound defense. he also spoke to my son without having any notes or anything prepared.
doesn't bode well for the future IMO.
If I can chime in again from a coach's perspective, sometimes I cut players because I just don't think they have it - at least in comparison to who else may be trying out alongside them.

I do not always necessarily have a written response at the ready for the kids I must let go. Usually, on the day of cuts, I tried to meet with each player (those who made it and those who didn't) and at that point I'd be prepared to offer some information to the ones I let go. But if I was asked by the player or the parent randomly, I'm not sure I'd always be ready to have a solid response. It might kind of put me on the spot, particularly with a parent.

In short, it might be worth taking his words with a grain of salt, particularly if he was one of many cut.

Sidenote: there is no Freshman team at your school, correct? In my area, we have three high school teams: Freshman, JV, then Varsity. The benefit of having all three is it doesn't promote such a tight squeeze amongst the newcomers and those who already have a year of high school experience. Usually the only 9th graders we bring up to JV are those with some legit talent, as opposed to JV being a catch-all for everyone. That's a bummer.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 12-17-2014 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

thanks for taking the time. no frosh team unfortunately. he is staying put this year and exploring schools for next year. One game is not everything but it was funny, he played a rec league charity game against the jv starting point last week and dropped 41 on him and held the kid to 6 points and 2 assists. :)

his aau coach is big on defense and said my son is an above-average defender. not the best but he plays him in crunch time in tight games all the time.

the high school coach gave inconsistent feedback to my son and I which was somewhat troubling. the play very slow and both his aau coach and the high school coach said my son plays really fast (his old team was really run and gun, no plays just ran motion with one in the post). the varsity coach likes him a lot as a player and said he needs to slow it down a bit as he is really effective but 90 mph all the time on both ends and therefore sometimes over plays on d. FWIW, there's a kid in 8th grade playing on a 10th/11th grade aau team who didn't make the team but they took 2 other 8th graders who are far weaker. I notice some of the kids who made it and their parents are always up the coaches ass and my son can be tough to coach as he is very intense and treats every possession like it's do or die and has no interest in off-the-court socialization but is a really good general running the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Interesting topic. Mostly good stuff so far. It's very, very tough to come to a certain conclusion without knowing the situation first hand. Still, I will say, AAU has often not served as a good reference piece for how good a player may be in our area. I've coached a number of players who dominated the up-and-down freewheeling AAU circuit but struggled a little with all that was necessary and required during the real season (more complicated schemes, more grinding).

From the information provided, it seems your son may be a solid ballplayer but again, it's tough to tell for sure. 21/8 are darn solid numbers if they're really at that level though, particularly in middle school games which tend to run at slightly slower paces with a lower amount of points scored.

In fact, if he's dropping 21/8 and still finding himself to be a borderline-making-the-team player, it kind of makes me wonder about the defensive structure within his AAU program. Namely, and I ask respectfully, was there any D? If not, that could point to one of the potential issues facing those players as they make the move to high school systems.If I can chime in again from a coach's perspective, sometimes I cut players because I just don't think they have it - at least in comparison to who else may be trying out alongside them.

I do not always necessarily have a written response at the ready for the kids I must let go. Usually, on the day of cuts, I tried to meet with each player (those who made it and those who didn't) and at that point I'd be prepared to offer some information to the ones I let go. But if I was asked by the player or the parent randomly, I'm not sure I'd always be ready to have a solid response. It might kind of put me on the spot, particularly with a parent.

In short, it might be worth taking his words with a grain of salt, particularly if he was one of many cut.

Sidenote: there is no Freshman team at your school, correct? In my area, we have three high school teams: Freshman, JV, then Varsity. The benefit of having all three is it doesn't promote such a tight squeeze amongst the newcomers and those who already have a year of high school experience. Usually the only 9th graders we bring up to JV are those with some legit talent, as opposed to JV being a catch-all for everyone. That's a bummer.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

^sorry to clarify he is very social, i mean he's not looking to be coach's pet
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:57 PM   #21
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunk75
thanks for taking the time. no frosh team unfortunately. he is staying put this year and exploring schools for next year. One game is not everything but it was funny, he played a rec league charity game against the jv starting point last week and dropped 41 on him and held the kid to 6 points and 2 assists. :)

his aau coach is big on defense and said my son is an above-average defender. not the best but he plays him in crunch time in tight games all the time.

the high school coach gave inconsistent feedback to my son and I which was somewhat troubling. the play very slow and both his aau coach and the high school coach said my son plays really fast (his old team was really run and gun, no plays just ran motion with one in the post). the varsity coach likes him a lot as a player and said he needs to slow it down a bit as he is really effective but 90 mph all the time on both ends and therefore sometimes over plays on d. FWIW, there's a kid in 8th grade playing on a 10th/11th grade aau team who didn't make the team but they took 2 other 8th graders who are far weaker. I notice some of the kids who made it and their parents are always up the coaches ass and my son can be tough to coach as he is very intense and treats every possession like it's do or die and has no interest in off-the-court socialization but is a really good general running the point.
If your son is truly getting the raw end of the deal here, that's a huge bummer and I'm sorry you guys have to deal with stuff like this.

On the other side, I mean this with absolutely zero intention toward you directly - as I do not know you and from what I've seen so far, you've seemed very polite - but I think my years of coaching and teaching have turned me into a skeptic. For every case where I hear a parent talk about their child and his skills in the manner you do, it seems there's an 85% chance the parent is heavily blinded by bias and unwilling to see what could be legitimate reasons behind the decisions made.

Again, to be clear, your case sounds pretty good (in terms of your kid likely getting a raw deal) but then, most parents who've disagreed with their sons getting cut (or not getting enough shots) tend to be able to create web of reasoning to get others to support their disdain.

In fact, my own father, who I consider very reasonable, logical, and generally able to set aside bias, is going through this right now. My youngest brother, a junior, did not make his varsity team. My dad is convinced it was silly for the varsity to keep two seniors who were inferior to my brother skill-wise.

However, he has a tough time accepting the notion that the only reason those two seniors made the team is because they opened a 13th and 14th slot on the roster just to reward their years of commitment (hitting every open gym, every camp, every workout). Meanwhile, my brother chose to play football this season and missed the majority of team basketball workouts. He likely would not have made the squad regardless of what happened to those two seniors, but it's tough for family to come to terms with that.

Regardless, you could be very right in this case and if it is so, I'm sorry to hear about how the system has wronged your family (and I hate that awful systems exist in the first place). I'd personally have a tough time reasoning a move to another school just so my kid could possibly play basketball - but that's just me.

Sidenote, are there team functions throughout the year (open gym, summer ball, fall league) that he can try to associate with, to gain familiarity with everyone within the program? I will say, call it bias or whatever you want, but if I have a kid who's at my open gyms all year - I have a much, much greater grasp on who he is and what he can do compared to someone not as associated with our program who's just trying to prove himself in the small window of a tryout.

Maybe you already mentioned that stuff. If so, I apologize.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

no need to apologize and i greatly appreciate the thoughtful responses. I absolutely agree with a lot of what you said. he participate in open gym and the varsity coach used to ask his name every day. This is not the first I heard of the JV team having some very strange cuts/makes. I am acutely aware of things he must work on but many of the kids chosen have serious deficiencies as well. If this was a district where there were even 10-12 talented JV level players I could see it. I went to archbishop molly which was d1; our school is d3 and his aau team is all d1 jv kids. Something just doesn't jive. We live in a very wealthy and political district where money talks and well, you you know how it goes.

That said he will play for the varsity coaches tourney team and attend all the open gyms; if this is the worst thing that happens to him, god bless. I hope it just drives him to leave no doubt in anyone's mind. I had about 10 parents tell me their kids were more upset about my son being cut because it means their kids have no shot in hell. I think I mentioned this but even the varsity coach asked why he wasn't at practice; when he told him he was cut he was incredulous.

I see it in inverse too; coaches faun over my youngest because he's tall, long and extremely skilled but his game drives me nuts, he is near uncoachable and cannot play well off the ball yet he makes every travel team and gets more minutes than any of the other kids. There were 5 aau kids fighting over him and I don't even want to coach him on CYO.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:24 PM   #23
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunk75
no need to apologize and i greatly appreciate the thoughtful responses. I absolutely agree with a lot of what you said. he participate in open gym and the varsity coach used to ask his name every day. This is not the first I heard of the JV team having some very strange cuts/makes. I am acutely aware of things he must work on but many of the kids chosen have serious deficiencies as well. If this was a district where there were even 10-12 talented JV level players I could see it. I went to archbishop molly which was d1; our school is d3 and his aau team is all d1 jv kids. Something just doesn't jive. We live in a very wealthy and political district where money talks and well, you you know how it goes.

That said he will play for the varsity coaches tourney team and attend all the open gyms; if this is the worst thing that happens to him, god bless. I hope it just drives him to leave no doubt in anyone's mind. I had about 10 parents tell me their kids were more upset about my son being cut because it means their kids have no shot in hell. I think I mentioned this but even the varsity coach asked why he wasn't at practice; when he told him he was cut he was incredulous.

I see it in inverse too; coaches faun over my youngest because he's tall, long and extremely skilled but his game drives me nuts, he is near uncoachable and cannot play well off the ball yet he makes every travel team and gets more minutes than any of the other kids. There were 5 aau kids fighting over him and I don't even want to coach him on CYO.
Sounds like a tough situation, man. I know every team, region, and state tends to operate differently when it comes to high school ball, but I was pretty surprised to read that the varsity coach didn't know he was cut.

Amongst the programs with which I've been associated, all coaches (Freshmen, JV, Varsity) gathered and decided who was staying and going as a group. That seemed to help prevent the situations you seem to be facing here. If a Freshmen or JV coach hadn't been around to see a particular player play, that's where another member of the staff could step up and say, "Yeah, he's been with me all year. He belongs on this team." Bummer that the decisions seemed to be independent of one another.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

yes, indeed, and this years jv starting 5 features 3 that were cut last year :/
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

quick update here.

in a game the other day, my son went for 38/10/10 on 14-18 with 8 threes, 2 blocks and 2 steals. opposing coach comes up after game, says one of best performances he's seen at any level/grade, yada yada. turns out he is coach of one of the biggest catholic schools here and wants my son to come work out with the team and look into transferring, said local coach must be insane to have not scooped him up. i guess we will get a happy ending, maybe everything happens for a reason.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunk75
quick update here.

in a game the other day, my son went for 38/10/10 on 14-18 with 8 threes, 2 blocks and 2 steals. opposing coach comes up after game, says one of best performances he's seen at any level/grade, yada yada. turns out he is coach of one of the biggest catholic schools here and wants my son to come work out with the team and look into transferring, said local coach must be insane to have not scooped him up. i guess we will get a happy ending, maybe everything happens for a reason.
Wait, what? Pardon me if I sound skeptical, but 1) Who was this game against? 2) Who kept the stats? and 3) Any player who can pretty much drop a 40 point triple double on legitimate competition while missing just four shots (and hitting 8 threes) should never, ever, ever, have a chance of ever not making a team.

Even with the most talented players I ever coached playing against the most over-matched competition, I've never seen an 8th or 9th grade small guard drop a 40 point triple double while making nearly every shot... only to get cut from his team. Heck, average scores for entire freshman teams often don't reach much higher than 40.

Something is amiss here...
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:00 PM   #27
kunk75
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

there's an official scorekeeper (two books, one for each team) and it was against a relatively competitive team, he has a workout at archbishop molly too this week. he was being asked about catholic school in 7th and 8th grade but we decided against it, should have gone that route in the first place. better late than never. the ref does catholic high school and low level college games and said it was one of the best performances he'd seen at any level he has ref'd. he pretty regularly goes for 20-25 and 7-10 assists, the rebounds were unusual

Last edited by kunk75 : 01-15-2015 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:02 PM   #28
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

yes and i tried to explain in the OP what was amiss. one of the others who got cut a few years ago is playing for LuHI now who are nationally ranked. this school district is f'd up, all political. someone explained to me that since they aren't good anyway, they just take who they know and whose parents they know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Wait, what? Pardon me if I sound skeptical, but 1) Who was this game against? 2) Who kept the stats? and 3) Any player who can pretty much drop a 40 point triple double on legitimate competition while missing just four shots (and hitting 8 threes) should never, ever, ever, have a chance of ever not making a team.

Even with the most talented players I ever coached playing against the most over-matched competition, I've never seen an 8th or 9th grade small guard drop a 40 point triple double while making nearly every shot... only to get cut from his team. Heck, average scores for entire freshman teams often don't reach much higher than 40.

Something is amiss here...
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

he was the best on the floor but it was against 2 freshman team players from another school. my son's team isn't very good; he scored 38 of their 53 total points. the coach thought he also showed good leadership as he directed his teammates around and told them where and when to cut. regardless, i agree, there aren't a lot of people who can score near 40 on 5th graders, let alone other 9th graders.
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:00 AM   #30
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Default Re: helping your kid deal with the politics of school sports

Do you have any youtube video you could post of your kid playing? The level he is at sounds suspect - you know as internet frenz we are all disbelievers.

I coached hoops etc and it is pretty rare for a kid to be THAT good and ever get cut from a team. I would assume he's got great handles, poise and shooting to be able to drop that sort of a gem of a statline.
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