Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-24-2015, 10:45 AM   #31
Akhenaten
Local High School Star
 
Akhenaten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,173
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by SexSymbol
Curry is better, better scorer, better playmaker, has better stats even while playing significantly less minutes.

higher iq, better defender (off ball, both are subpar on the ball), much better feel for the game

2011 Rose is extremely overrated, the playoffs that season exposed that (and I'm not talking about the ECF either, his entire postseason was underwhelming).
Akhenaten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:55 AM   #32
nathanjizzle
#Trump4Treason
 
nathanjizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 14,147
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

i see alot of pg stans insecure about rose.
nathanjizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:57 AM   #33
ralph_i_el
The Wizard
 
ralph_i_el's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Born Under a Bad Sign
Posts: 8,507
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

and all Rose had was by far the best D in the league. He was the PG for a below average offense when he won MVP. Curry is by far the better player.
ralph_i_el is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:58 AM   #34
nathanjizzle
#Trump4Treason
 
nathanjizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 14,147
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

also, rose is playing curry on tuesday, so choose your words carefully. I suspect rose will drop 10 3s on currys head.
nathanjizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:00 AM   #35
nathanjizzle
#Trump4Treason
 
nathanjizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 14,147
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
and all Rose had was by far the best D in the league. He was the PG for a below average offense when he won MVP. Curry is by far the better player.

why would you play d when your getting beat on the offensive end? if you cant compete offensively then whats the point of playing hard d for 48 minutes. Thats the difference between when rose led the bulls to best records in the league, to the bulls being a .500 team without him.
nathanjizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:04 AM   #36
ralph_i_el
The Wizard
 
ralph_i_el's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Born Under a Bad Sign
Posts: 8,507
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by They Won
This is dumb. By this standard, Curry is not better than anybody because I don't remember anybody else having a teammate drop 52 in 35 minutes, going totally NBA Jam for a 37 point quarter.

you must be an actual idiot.
The 2010-11 Bulls were stacked. Rose barely moved the needle for them (as evidenced by how they rolled without him). With Curry off the floor, GS is way worse offensively.

By this point in the 2010-11 season, Boozer had had 3-30 point games and a 29 point game. They had Korver spacing the floor, Noah doing Noah things. Loul Deng busting his ass 40 minutes a game. Taj Gibson coming off the bench to make sure the D never lost a beat.
ralph_i_el is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:09 AM   #37
ralph_i_el
The Wizard
 
ralph_i_el's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Born Under a Bad Sign
Posts: 8,507
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
why would you play d when your getting beat on the offensive end? if you cant compete offensively then whats the point of playing hard d for 48 minutes. Thats the difference between when rose led the bulls to best records in the league, to the bulls being a .500 team without him.

They won 75% of their games in 11-12 when they only had him for 39 of 66 games. Then they won 55% of their games the next two years, after giving up some of their "win now" pieces because they were waiting for Rose to get back. I know you know this.

The Bulls, at their best in 2010-11 were below average in offensive efficiency. They won because 1. Thibs is a great defensive coach 2. Noah/Deng/Gibson all play great D consistently 3. Thibs ran his players into the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
also, rose is playing curry on tuesday, so choose your words carefully. I suspect rose will drop 10 3s on currys head.
Will he take 30 3's? Then maybe


Rose= So overrated
ralph_i_el is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:10 AM   #38
DMAVS41
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,325
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
He might. Playoffs will validate or not.

But the point is everyone talks like he's definitively better. He's eye test worse defensively, although not bad himself ... same APG, while Curry is playing with more talent, on a much higher offensive pace team, 1st in the league.

Curry averages 2 ppg less, on 5% better FG percentage. Plays with a back court running mate who averages what the same volume. Big deal.

One is a better shooter, the other a more unstoppable player getting to the bucket and finishing?

If anything it's a draw. Prisoners of the moment keep trying to re-write history.

Sure, but it's gonna be hard for Curry to play as shitty as Rose did in the playoffs. He could so I won't say it's impossible, but not a high bar at all.

Rose was a sub 50% TS scorer in the playoffs and choked horribly late in all the close games of the ECF. Rose's level dropped off considerably, especially in clutch situations (what he was so great at in the regular season) in the 11 playoffs.

And now that the sample is pretty good...there is the following:

Warriors with Curry on offense? 117.4 ortg
Warriors with Curry on defense? 98.4 drtg

Warriors without Curry on offense? 100.8 ortg
Warriors without Curry on defense? 103.1 drtg



Bulls with Rose on offense? 111 ortg
Bulls with Rose on defense? 102.2 drtg

Bulls without Rose on offense? 100.9 ortg
Bulls without Rose on defense? 94.8 drtg

The 11 Bulls outscored teams by 6.1 points per 100 possessions without Rose on the floor. The current Warriors get outscored by 2.3 points per 100 without Curry. Again, there is always noise in that, but that difference is absurd. The Warriors without Curry are clearly inferior in terms of performance than the Bulls were without Rose...it's actually not remotely close.

Curry improves his teams offense and defense more. In fact, the Bulls defense was demonstrably better without Rose. Some of this is situational, but this line of thinking about how stacked the Warriors are compared to the 11 Bulls is total bullshit. Those 11 Bulls were absurdly stacked and their defense / rebounding was unreal good.

Curry, to date this season, has been a better player than Rose has ever been in his entire career...it's really just obvious. Not only is he having a bigger impact on his team, but his offensive game is a level above and his defense has improved to the level Rose played at in 2011 imo.

So while the playoffs are where it matters most...we can absolutely compare regular season to regular season. And so far...Curry's current season easily trumps Rose's in 11.

Last edited by DMAVS41 : 01-24-2015 at 11:19 AM.
DMAVS41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:12 AM   #39
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,606
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
why would you play d when your getting beat on the offensive end? if you cant compete offensively then whats the point of playing hard d for 48 minutes. Thats the difference between when rose led the bulls to best records in the league, to the bulls being a .500 team without him.



Math fail. The Bulls were never a .500 team without him.

In fact the year after he won the MVP they were 18-9 in the games he missed.
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:23 AM   #40
DMAVS41
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,325
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by mehyaM24
~2nd in the league (behind lebron) in RAPM, top 5 in PER, and 1st in winshares per 48 minutes. bottom line, curry arguably has the best combo of scoring and shooting, is a great playmaker, and his impact is right there with lebron.

this is why people use empirical data. too many idiots talking from their ass, but nothing of note to back up their claims - one 50 point game from klay thompson doesn't change that.

think about this for impact:

The Warriors outscore teams by 19.1 points per 100 possessions with Curry on the floor.

When Curry is on the bench? The Warriors get outscored by 2.3 points per 100 possessions.

To date, that means Curry improves his team by 21.4 points per 100.

And people are questioning his impact? That is one of the biggest differentials I've ever seen on a quality team.

Conversely, Rose improved his team by a whopping 2.7 points per 100 possessions in 11.

Hint....21.4 is much bigger than 2.7.
DMAVS41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:23 AM   #41
mehyaM24
College star
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,000
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

~2nd in the league (behind lebron) in RAPM, top 5 in PER, and 1st in winshares per 48 minutes. bottom line, curry arguably has the best combo of scoring and shooting, is a great playmaker, and his impact is right there with lebron (the greatest player of this era).

this is why people use empirical data. too many idiots talking from their ass, but nothing of note to back up their claims. one 50 point game from klay thompson doesn't change reality - curry is MVP
mehyaM24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:23 AM   #42
ralph_i_el
The Wizard
 
ralph_i_el's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Born Under a Bad Sign
Posts: 8,507
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Sure, but it's gonna be hard for Curry to play as shitty as Rose did in the playoffs. He could so I won't say it's impossible, but not a high bar at all.

Rose was a sub 50% TS scorer in the playoffs and choked horribly late in all the close games of the ECF. Rose's level dropped off considerably, especially in clutch situations (what he was so great at in the regular season) in the 11 playoffs.

And now that the sample is pretty good...there is the following:

Warriors with Curry on offense? 117.4 ortg
Warriors with Curry on defense? 98.4 drtg

Warriors without Curry on offense? 100.8 ortg
Warriors without Curry on defense? 103.1 drtg



Bulls with Rose on offense? 111 ortg
Bulls with Rose on defense? 102.2 drtg

Bulls without Rose on offense? 100.9 ortg
Bulls without Rose on defense? 94.8 drtg

The 11 Bulls outscored teams by 6.1 points per 100 possessions without Rose on the floor. The current Warriors get outscored by 2.3 points per 100 without Curry. Again, there is always noise in that, but that difference is absurd. The Warriors without Curry are clearly inferior in terms of performance than the Bulls were without Rose...it's actually not remotely close.

Curry improves his teams offense and defense more. In fact, the Bulls defense was demonstrably better without Rose. Some of this is situational, but this line of thinking about how stacked the Warriors are compared to the 11 Bulls is total bullshit. Those 11 Bulls were absurdly stacked and their defense / rebounding was unreal good.

Curry, to date this season, has been a better player than Rose has ever been in his entire career...it's really just obvious. Not only is he having a bigger impact on his team, but his offensive game is a level above and his defense has improved to the level Rose played at in 2011 imo.

So while the playoffs are where it matters most...we can absolutely compare regular season to regular season. And so far...Curry's current season easily trumps Rose's in 11.

ralph_i_el is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:27 AM   #43
DMAVS41
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,325
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by mehyaM24


rose is actually the worst mvp to date. the season he won it, i dont think he was even in the top 10 per RAPM, which basically individualizes you and yours alone impact to the game.

How good or great Rose was in 11 is one debate. I think he was a top 7 player in the league or so, but he wasn't the best player in the regular season imo.

However, I thought he deserved MVP.

Two separate points. So criticize him for his play, but I think saying he didn't deserve MVP is just wrong. He absolutely did based on many factors and the history of the award.
DMAVS41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:29 AM   #44
nathanjizzle
#Trump4Treason
 
nathanjizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 14,147
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Sure, but it's gonna be hard for Curry to play as shitty as Rose did in the playoffs. He could so I won't say it's impossible, but not a high bar at all.

Rose was a sub 50% TS scorer in the playoffs and choked horribly late in all the close games of the ECF. Rose's level dropped off considerably, especially in clutch situations (what he was so great at in the regular season) in the 11 playoffs.

And now that the sample is pretty good...there is the following:

Warriors with Curry on offense? 117.4 ortg
Warriors with Curry on defense? 98.4 drtg

Warriors without Curry on offense? 100.8 ortg
Warriors without Curry on defense? 103.1 drtg



Bulls with Rose on offense? 111 ortg
Bulls with Rose on defense? 102.2 drtg

Bulls without Rose on offense? 100.9 ortg
Bulls without Rose on defense? 94.8 drtg

The 11 Bulls outscored teams by 6.1 points per 100 possessions without Rose on the floor. The current Warriors get outscored by 2.3 points per 100 without Curry. Again, there is always noise in that, but that difference is absurd. The Warriors without Curry are clearly inferior in terms of performance than the Bulls were without Rose...it's actually not remotely close.

Curry improves his teams offense and defense more. In fact, the Bulls defense was demonstrably better without Rose. Some of this is situational, but this line of thinking about how stacked the Warriors are compared to the 11 Bulls is total bullshit. Those 11 Bulls were absurdly stacked and their defense / rebounding was unreal good.

Curry, to date this season, has been a better player than Rose has ever been in his entire career...it's really just obvious. Not only is he having a bigger impact on his team, but his offensive game is a level above and his defense has improved to the level Rose played at in 2011 imo.

So while the playoffs are where it matters most...we can absolutely compare regular season to regular season. And so far...Curry's current season easily trumps Rose's in 11.
, so tell me, how is one player better than the other because one players bench is better than the other players bench? because thats mostly what your stats actually dictate, differences in bench. And even factor in other players in the starting line up.

"some noise" youre retarded.

even in roses inefficient play in the playoffs, he still carried the team to the ecf. wihtout rose? first and second round exits.

Last edited by nathanjizzle : 01-24-2015 at 11:33 AM.
nathanjizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:30 AM   #45
mehyaM24
College star
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,000
Default Re: Curry Stans be like, he's better than 2011 MVP D-Rose

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
How good or great Rose was in 11 is one debate. I think he was a top 7 player in the league or so, but he wasn't the best player in the regular season imo.

However, I thought he deserved MVP.

Two separate points. So criticize him for his play, but I think saying he didn't deserve MVP is just wrong. He absolutely did based on many factors and the history of the award.
well, i'm not saying he didn't "deserve" mvp. i'm saying he's actually the worst mvp to date. big difference.

i get there are players who win mvp that aren't actually the best player in the game. common knowledge.
mehyaM24 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:02 AM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook


















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy