Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Draft Forum

NBA Draft Forum NBA Draft message board - nba draft forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-14-2007, 06:41 PM   #31
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 20,387
Real Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
Imagine if OJ Mayo didnt get left back you would have a potential 3 best players at thier positions

Oden
Durant
Mayo
Am I the only one that thinks Mayo is severely overrated? I remember watching one of his high school games and thinking, "he's got tremendous shot-making ability, he'll be a very good scorer, but no way is that a point guard."
Real Men Wear Green is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 06:44 PM   #32
wang4three
NJ Net Fan For Life.
 
wang4three's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,443
wang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

I'd articulate a response to you Real Men, but Game already has a better one in the college forum:

Quote:
Look at what the other elite centers and did as freshmen.

Shaq: 13.9 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.6 bpg, .573 FG%.

Zo: 13.1, 7.0, 5.0, .603.

Duncan: 9.8, 9.6, 3.8, .545.

David Robinson: 7.6, 4.0, 1.3, .623.

Brad Daugherty: 8.2, 5.2, 1.0, .558.

Patrick Ewing: 12.7, 7.5, 3.2, .631.

Akeem: 8.3, 6.2, 2.5, .607.

Ralph Sampson: 14.9, 11.2, 4.6, .547.


Those are the seven centers drafted No. 1 out of college in the last 25 years, as well as Mourning, who was No. 2 behind Shaq in '93 and would've been No. 1 in lots of other years. Four of them are sure-fire Hall of Famers and Top 10 all-time centers, and two others (Mourning and Ewing) have shots at the Hall of Fame as well and are Top 20 all-time centers. All of them averaged 20 and 10. So, it's safe to assume that 7-footers (yes, I know Akeem was only 6'10" or so; bear with me) that are highly accomplished college players that go No. 1 in the draft are going to fare pretty damn well.

Yet as freshmen, those eight averaged 11.1 points, 7.8 points, 2.5 blocks, and .586% from the field.

Greg Oden's freshman numbers: 15.4 points, 9.5 rebounds, 3.3 blocks, .616% FG. In other words, he has far outperformed some of them statistically, and hasn't been truly outperformed by any of them.

Now, statistics don't mean much without context or perspective. Certainly some of those guys' numbers were lower than they would be in later years because of slower play pre-shot clock. Some were on loaded teams that kept their numbers down, but then again, so is Oden. Were he on a team that needed to go to him time and time again, he may not be shooting 62% but I have little doubt that he could average 20+ points, either. Also, I don't think any of those guys started their frosh year with a major injury to their dominant hand that forced them to play primarily with their off-hand, but I know Oden did.

And when people talk about Oden's need to develop offensively- and sure, he does- they seem to forget where those guys were, skillwise, as freshman. Olajuwon certainly hadn't mastered the "Dreamshake" yet. Ewing wasn't the masterful outside shooter he later became. Many ignorant fans think Shaq has been nothing but an oversize brute force throughout his NBA career, but as a college freshman, that really is all he was at that point. He sure as hell hadn't yet developed the footwork, the jumphook, or the short baseline turnaround that became staples of his repetoire.

Teamwise? Ewing was the only one of those eight to lead his team to the Final Four as a freshman; only three of the eight-Ewing, Akeem and Sampson- ever made it to a Final Four throughout their careers.

All of this means the following: Greg Oden is at least on the curve with the greats of the last 25 years, and arguably far ahead of it.

He is not overhyped.

He is not overrated.

If you were expecting more, your expectations were wildly unrealistic and without any sort of historical merit.

Does he have work do to? Upper-body strength to develop, post moves and outside touch to refine? Sure. Big men take longer to develop, physically and fundamentally. Makes sense that it would be harder for them than a guard, considering how remarkable it is that such an enormous human would simply have the coordination of elite basketball centers, much less the athleticism, endurance and talent.

All things considered, it's pretty remarkable how far along Oden actually is.
wang4three is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 06:51 PM   #33
Pyro
Banned
 
Pyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OJ Mayo's Crew
Posts: 1,168
Pyro has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Am I the only one that thinks Mayo is severely overrated? I remember watching one of his high school games and thinking, "he's got tremendous shot-making ability, he'll be a very good scorer, but no way is that a point guard."
OJ Mayo Stats

Statistics Pts Rebs Asst Stl

2003 (Fr.) 31.0ppg 9.0rpg 7.0apg
2004 (So.) 28.1ppg 7.7rpg 8.1apg
2005 (Jr.) 28.8ppg 8.8rpg 5.8apg 5.0spg
2006 (Sr.) ??????? I dont know yet

Last edited by Pyro : 04-14-2007 at 06:56 PM.
Pyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 06:55 PM   #34
wang4three
NJ Net Fan For Life.
 
wang4three's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,443
wang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation herewang4three has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Am I the only one that thinks Mayo is severely overrated? I remember watching one of his high school games and thinking, "he's got tremendous shot-making ability, he'll be a very good scorer, but no way is that a point guard."
You're not. I'm beginning to feel the same. He seems to be like Stephon Marbury in terms of hype out of high school, style of play..though Steph actually has play making skills. Good thing is if he grows an inch or two he'll be able to play shooting guard, because I doubt he's a point.
wang4three is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 06:57 PM   #35
Pyro
Banned
 
Pyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OJ Mayo's Crew
Posts: 1,168
Pyro has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
You're not. I'm beginning to feel the same. He seems to be like Stephon Marbury in terms of hype out of high school, style of play..though Steph actually has play making skills. Good thing is if he grows an inch or two he'll be able to play shooting guard, because I doubt he's a point.
OJ Mayo is 6foot 5inch and 210lbs

If he grows anymore he could be a SF/PF

Last edited by Pyro : 04-14-2007 at 07:00 PM.
Pyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:03 PM   #36
thenextgreatbigman
Banned
 
thenextgreatbigman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,092
thenextgreatbigman has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
OJ Mayo is 6foot 5inch and 210lbs

If he grows anymore he could be a SF/PF
He's also 20yrs old and ain't growing anymore.
And have you ever seen him play? PF?
thenextgreatbigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:07 PM   #37
beau_boy04
Local High School Star
 
beau_boy04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,286
beau_boy04 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally_world
1996
2003
2007

i'm gonna love it!

especially when Suns have the 3rd to 5th pick estimated!


Did you forget the 1984???
beau_boy04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:10 PM   #38
Voice of Reason
Local High School Star
 
Voice of Reason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BANitentiary
Posts: 978
Voice of Reason has not been impressing people
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Gotta love TheGame breakdown.

On OJ Mayo. He's not a PG and him playing that position at USC is dumb. But I dont think they have any PG's there unles Gabe Pruitt is returning which is likely. OJ Mayo is about as much of a PG as Wade or Larry Hughes. Now maybe people see Gilbert Arenas in OJ Mayo? But to me OJ Mayo has more size than Gilbert. But i guess thats where the notion of "He can play PG or is a PG" stems from.

But we'll see. Kid is a bonified scorer...just wish he was a smarter bball player. A year in college could definately help him there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
OJ Mayo is 6foot 5inch and 210lbs

If he grows anymore he could be a SF/PF

He's a combo guard. PF?
Voice of Reason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:10 PM   #39
Pyro
Banned
 
Pyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OJ Mayo's Crew
Posts: 1,168
Pyro has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenextgreatbigman
He's also 20yrs old and ain't growing anymore.
And have you ever seen him play? PF?
wang4three said if OJ Mayo grew anymore he can play SG

Then i said hes 6foot 5inch and 210lbs

he doesent need to grow BUT if he did he could play SF and possibly and under sized PF if the team chooses to play small that is if he grew anymore wich wont happen

Last edited by Pyro : 04-14-2007 at 07:15 PM.
Pyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:23 PM   #40
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 20,387
Real Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

I hereby expressly forbid any more "OJ Mayo Power Forward" talk in this thread. If you insist on continuing that discussion, make a new thread for it where you can get laughed at to your heart's content. But no more here. Failure to comply will result in scornful faces from me to your post via my monitor and possibly a mocking e-mail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
I'd articulate a response to you Real Men, but Game already has a better one in the college forum:
He could become a great scorer but there are plenty of guys that scored as much or more than Oden that had average or worse NBA careers, so it doesn't really prove that he'll be a great scorer, just that his potential as a scorer should not be discounted based solely on freshman stats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
OJ Mayo Stats

Statistics Pts Rebs Asst Stl

2003 (Fr.) 31.0ppg 9.0rpg 7.0apg
2004 (So.) 28.1ppg 7.7rpg 8.1apg
2005 (Jr.) 28.8ppg 8.8rpg 5.8apg 5.0spg
2006 (Sr.) ??????? I dont know yet
That's a significant dip in assists from sophomore to Junior seasons, and what's strange here is that his stats really don't show any kind of improvement, although they are impressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
You're not. I'm beginning to feel the same. He seems to be like Stephon Marbury in terms of hype out of high school, style of play..though Steph actually has play making skills. Good thing is if he grows an inch or two he'll be able to play shooting guard, because I doubt he's a point.
I think that he could be a point, but the way he plays it just doesn't seem to be his nature. Like how Wade is an SG instead of point because he's got a scorer's mentality.
Real Men Wear Green is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:47 PM   #41
beau_boy04
Local High School Star
 
beau_boy04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,286
beau_boy04 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

OJ Mayo is overracted and seems to have mental problems.

Derrick Rose is the best player for 2008.
beau_boy04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:50 PM   #42
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 20,387
Real Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Wasn't Kevin Love the top-rated player for that class? Tough to figure out who's the best among HS players anyway.
Real Men Wear Green is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:50 PM   #43
Younggrease
Banned
 
Younggrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,767
Younggrease has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Am I the only one that thinks Mayo is severely overrated? I remember watching one of his high school games and thinking, "he's got tremendous shot-making ability, he'll be a very good scorer, but no way is that a point guard."

No i think he is very overrated. I dont think he will ever make an nba all star team. He doesnt have a pure stroke and isnt very athletic. People act like he is so talented but isnt even close to the great talents that have come into this league.

He better watch out or lil' romeo is gonna take starting pg from him at USC.
Younggrease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:53 PM   #44
Voice of Reason
Local High School Star
 
Voice of Reason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BANitentiary
Posts: 978
Voice of Reason has not been impressing people
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

I like Eric Gordon over OJ Mayo myself. But who asked me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Wasn't Kevin Love the top-rated player for that class? Tough to figure out who's the best among HS players anyway.

Yessir
Voice of Reason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:53 PM   #45
Younggrease
Banned
 
Younggrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,767
Younggrease has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Oden's in the draft, making the draft officially stacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
OJ Mayo Stats

Statistics Pts Rebs Asst Stl

2003 (Fr.) 31.0ppg 9.0rpg 7.0apg
2004 (So.) 28.1ppg 7.7rpg 8.1apg
2005 (Jr.) 28.8ppg 8.8rpg 5.8apg 5.0spg
2006 (Sr.) ??????? I dont know yet

HS stats mean absolutely nothing!!!!!

From the little i hve seen rose seems to be a better player as well as gordon. Rose is lightning quick, looks to have a good handle, great body control, and seems to have good feel for the game. I would Derrick Rose over OF Mayo 10 times out of 10

Last edited by Younggrease : 04-14-2007 at 07:55 PM.
Younggrease is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:33 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy